my Q is just that are the narrow band sensors usless ?

is there ANY amount of tuning available in conjunction with an apexi safc?

 

narrow band what?

 

Yes


No


About good enough to know if you're actually getting fuel, or not.

That's about IT.
Otherwise, its just another "bling" gauge.

 

ohhhhh

im talking about narrow band afr meters

is bling bad even if it has SOME use?

(im not sure if i can return it or not)

 

ok so what do you think would be the safest thing for me to do for tuning the car with out a wide band sensor( i dont have the money)?

 

Dont try and tune if you dont have the money to either buy proper equipment, or to pay someone with he proper equipment to tune it. To answer your question, is a narrow band AFR gauge worthless.. no. Is it worthless as a tuning device.. yes.

 

is it able to keep my car from leaning out even though it only gets signals every couple seconds?

 

They're good for very "rough" tuning...nothing precise.

 

Who says it only gets signals every couple seconds?

 

the problem is it will only tell you if the AFR is above or below 14.7:1 it has near zero accuracy above or below that reading,.. basically it reads: more then 14.7---14.7---less then 14.7,..nothing more... eventhough your gauge may read 4 bars rich that could be anything from 14:1-11:1

 

they are actually very quick to respond...

 

No, they are not useless.
It can tell you you're grossly rich or grossly lean.
Do NOT try and use it to fine-tune fuel.


-Ted

 

learn how to read your plugs, even wide bands are not all created equil. I have found differant brands of wide bands to read over a full point and a half differant than each other.

Learn to use all the tools at you have like PLUGS, look at the color in your exhaust and the smoke that comes out, listen to your engine.

Good luck, you'll need it.

 

smell your engine.... just try not to get cancer in the process.. a pig rich running engine will make u want to go wash your face off and leave u feeling bad for a while.

 

narrow band AFR gauges, like EGT gauges, are only good for gauging (har har) how rich or lean your car is. SAFC's are not the best for tuning either, you're only allowed to go up to a small fixed percentage over or under factory fuel settings. SAFC is only good for extremely light modding...even then you might be better off just manually altering timing (slightly)

For more rigorous tuning, a proper EMS and a wideband is recommended. You could easily spend near $400 on an SAFC and an AFR gauge and still be extremely limited with what you can tune. I believe money is better spent saving up and getting a proper EMS like the Haltech.

 

I'm sorry, but to equate a narrow-band O2 sensor to an EGT gauge is just plain ludicrous.

The EGT gauge is much more useful.
Hell, the EGT gauge is even more useful than a wide-band.
Just because you can't utilize something properly, please do not discount their proper usage.


-Ted

 

I think EGT gauges are great, I never said otherwise. I actually think the two most useful gauges to have are water temp, and exhaust gas temp.

I dont think you can fine tune with an EGT gauge, but the simile with an AFR gauge is there as a general indicator. I suppose i could have made a simile with something irrelevant like a low gas light...but EGT gauge seemed a little closer to home...perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'only'

anyhow, it's a little OT...but EGT's...please discuss

 

[double post]

 

I guess we can start by you telling me how a wide-band helps you tune your ignition timing?


-Ted

 

I knew I was going to find something in here having to do with tuning with EGTs....what temp does 12:1 run and 11:1 run, let me know im fixing to tune my car....

 

Narrow band AFR gauges react very quickly.
When my prior engine lost some compression across one seal, I could see the unburned fuel puffs at idle in the AFR spikes.

I learned of a bad injector recently by spotting a lean spike at idle. Also the gauge would fan out under load, lighting up 1/3 of the sweep.

Another use - The AFR showed I was not getting closed loop while cruising. I needed to set the TPS up a little higher.

Like Ted says - It's not for tuning, but it's still a useful diagnostic tool.

 

An egt guage is more usful for tuning timing than fuel.

 

Has anyone seen a write up on what temps under what conditions mean rich or lean?

 

you could have the exact same afr and see a 500deg change in your egt just by changing timing. Dont use your egt to tune fuel.

 

well since the only way to tune the car is under full load right?
so when i am under load about 3k i get hesitation. i only felt it abit because when ever it happends i let off the gas imediatly. but do you think it could be bogging down from richness? i have a RB racing exaust turbo back w/no emissions, and a cone filter. with the manufacturers number i am making about 250hp at the flywheel(of course i could be wrong). so it runs rich at idle and lean in top end. so i need to lean it out then enrichen it. but i dont want to richen it to much of course thats where i got that hesitation