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iTrader: (1)

Not gonna lie.. thats brilliant..

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

video w/ fully plumbed ish

http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/e...ent=start2.flv

(if it doesn't work yet its still uploading.. i just cant wait any longer to go get my dinner)

dot_txt

iTrader: (1)

I think the engine should start without the AFM hooked up.. just not run.. (Start.. and die within a second or 2.. but still "rev").. I've started my N/A without its AFM.. Just would not run after a second or two..

Few questions:

Does it flood out on you after so many attempts to start it? How badly.

And has the timing changed at all since the conversion? Pulled out the CAS?

And out of curiosity. Have you checked for spark on all plugs / wires on securely.

fcdrifter13

It sounds like zero fuel or spark.


Also are you sure the AFM is hooked up, i mean seriously lol. Vid made me lol.

HAILERS

never mind.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

the reason im using the n/a injectors and n/a ecu for the sake of making it RUN is because i know the injectors do not leak, and the ecu is good. i put in a fresh set of plugs the other day, and i know they're sparking. although i could see after ALL of this trying to start it being flooded. i'll de-flood for good measure before doing anything more.

i'll check the timing tomarrow, since that's probably the only thing i haven't touched. and double check that im getting fuel by pulling the return line from the hard line to the tank with the key on.

as i was posting the video i was thinkin, would the n/a ecu w/ the t2 afm make a difference?

fcforlife

iTrader: (9)

but an na ecu is ment to run an na not a turbo.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

as Abraham Lincoln once said, It is better to be thought a fool and say nothing, than to say something, and remove all doubt.







try using the T2 ecu man. are you getting fuel and spark?

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

i think i recognize that username.. kain from hmt?

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

The NA ECU will still start and run the car, it will just run rich as hell. Your timing and AFRs will be less than ideal since the NA sensors cannot read boost but Aaron Cake obviously drove his car with the NA ECU and sensors before he started entering corrections into the SAFC.

I don't see how the TII AFM will make a difference. I've driven my car with both AFMs and never noticed a difference.

I doubt the timing would be off unless you messed with it but its easy to get it out of the way...make sure to remove the cover on the CAS to ensure that you install it properly.

Check for 12V at the primary injector pins with the key ON behind the ECU to rule out a wiring problem (unlikely).

Next step to troubleshooting without guessing would be to test for fuel. Take the intakes off, ziptie the injectors to fuel rails (secondaries too), jump the yellow test connector to pressurize the fuel system, remove CAS leaving it connected, put the key in the ON position and spin the gear on the CAS, the primary injectors should spray consistently.

Edit: Off topic but your TID looks just like mine! lol.

HAILERS

Plus........the afm is not a player during START. Only after the rpms get over 500rpm. My cars will start with either n/a or turbo ECU's in place, whether the car is a turbo car or non turbo car. I'm talking STARTING and nothing else.

Something has gone wrong since the time you were trying to start the car with no plumbing. At least then, it was sputtering a bit. Personally, I'd disconnect the fuel pump and spray starter fluid in the amount you have been doing in the first videos, just to get it to at least sputter.

On a series five, to deflood, you hold the pedal to the floor and crank. That act causes the fuel injectors to shut off to prevent more flooding, and I'm not sure of this, but allows spark to burn the residual fuel off while cranking.

Some of that would be dependent on the TPS being worthwhile, because the TPS would be the item that tells the ECU that the pedal is down DURING Start. See what I mean? Yes. I'd still disable the fuel pump and spray starter fluid til it made starting noises. That way you know you have spark and fuel. Pulling EGI fuses kills SPARK and fuel. Sucks imhumbleopinion.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

word an rx7 at the shop i work at got so flooded that he disconnected the fuel pump and it actually ran for like 3 seconds once it fired up.

so here's my plan for today.
de-flood, pull plugs and clean if needed.
try to start it
starter fluid, possibly into the post-intercooler elbow like before?
double check im getting fuel, lines and voltage at ecu
check timing

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

revival.

Pulled plugs-
they seem to have an oil buildup around the center of the plug, normal? outer edges are relatively clean. sprayed some brake kleen and a little starter fluid on them and reinstalled.

Check fuel-
pulled fuel return line and turned key to on, when "on" (and engine not moving) the line was full of fuel, cranked it a little and some fuel came out. fuel doesn't seem to be the issue

Sprayed starter fluid into the throttle body-
pulled the intercooler off and sprayed a little inside the elbow like before, got it to sputter a little bit like before, but not much.

looked at the CAS, and it looks just a hair off from dead middle on the aduster bracket.

i also charged the battery on a charger since it didn't have much life even with jumping it. it cranks much harder now but still wont run.



im about this --| |-- c lose to buy my buddy's comso

NinjaGUYdan

injector impedance difference maybe? (from turbo to NA)
I don't know what to suggest without being there and seeing it.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

s5 injectors before and after, and right now im running the n/a injectors because i know they work flawlessly (no flooding)

dot_txt

iTrader: (1)

Wait.. Is the timing roughly set correctly. The CAS on mine is off center by 10% or so but the marks on the main pulley and the metal piece inside the CAS is right where its supposed to be.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/timing-rebuild-i-have-pics-791055/

note the pics in the first post.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Yeah the position of the CAS in the adjuster bracket means NOTHING. If you want to set it you will have to remove it and align the pointers, takes a total of 3 minutes to do. If you don't have a timing light thats fine, you will still be able to get it in the ballpark. If for some reason you don't feel like doing it you can take the two screws off the cover and see if it is aligned according to this pic:


Though if you didn't have previous problems with timing I don't see why you would now.

turbo2SE

iTrader: (1)

hey tatakai. i did this same setup with my 86 base model before i went full standalone to see if the turbo motor was in good working order.
im reading your posts to bring me up to speed and i will see what i can offer for advice and see if you havent tried them yeat.

turbo2SE

iTrader: (1)

give this a shot tatakai.

n/a emittions harness and electrical harness if you havent changed that over.
with the n/a MAF . try both injectors.
use the n/a tps and throttle n/a sensors.


where is the primary fuel feeding line going to ? which fuel rail? do a video on all this and also i want to see your spark plug connections.

best of luck.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Glad I can help. Do you mean advice for my car? I actually found the problem last week, it was the Jspec N374 ECU doing fuel cut on the rear rotor which is common.

Back on topic though. OP: Your car sounds just like mine when I flooded the **** out of it troubleshooting the ECU (energizing injectors over and over) with the engine off...took me 30+ minutes to start the damn thing.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

word i really dont think there is a timing issue considering the motor was running like a champ before the changeover- no idle issues, no hot start issues, no flooding issues, fired right up after only a couple cranks. but i'll crack it open and take a look.

turbose im not quite sure what your suggesting? im running the n/a harness, are you saying try it with the n/a MAF? and from what i read n/a and t2 TPS are not interchangeable.

spark plugs are not messed up, i change them one at a time to ensure im not swapping plug wires. plugs were changed recently since the car wouldn't start. attached pic is my fuel layout, except because i have an s5 t2 secondary fuel rail on s4 manifolds its actually mounted backwards, but that is the hose/connection layout.

khan- flooded to ****? i deflood everyday i attempt to start the car. should i try a hardcore de-flood of some sort?

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Just sounds exactly like it, that may or may not be your problem. My suggestions:

*Pull plugs, check for excessive fuel, report back, make sure they're clean, reinstall. De-flood by pulling EGI fuse, keeping the pedal to the floor and crank the engine for 30 seconds making sure the cranking speed is normal. Rev the other car to 1500rpm if you need to. When attempting startup, work the gas pedal from 0 to ~80% throttle making sure not to go WOT (fuel cut).

*Remove CAS, turn the key ON, rotate the CAS gear, listen for spark on the plugs side and clicking on the injectors side.

And/OR

*Check for source voltage at the injector pins to rule out a wiring problem. Leave the connectors in, backprobe the wire using a DMM and ECU as ground. Or while cranking connect a DMM lead from the INJ pin and tap the ECU (2 secs max) to energize the injector and see if that does anything.

Other than this I'm completely out of ideas.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

whenever i've pulled the plugs they look like they have excessive oil buildup around the center of the plug. i'll take a picture next chance i get to pull them, but here's another fabulous mspaint. the trailing are worse than the leading, but it looks like there's so much oil around the electrode they cant spark. the rest of the plug is sparkly clean.

NinjaGUYdan

+1 for drawing skillz

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

I don't think thats a normal amount of oil buildup seeing as how you have only cranked the car. If you hadn't for whatever reason squirted a lot of oil into the combustion chamber prior to startup I'd start searching for "oily plugs" or "oil on plugs".