Rotary_7

ive been told that the s5 front rotors are all the same..so i would assume the 4 pots and singal pots have the same rotors...

yesterday i checked out my freinds 86GXL and i can swear his rotors seemed a lot bigger than my N/A one.

I currently have a set of 4 pots at home and want to put them on...

do i need to swap the rotors to 4pot/bigger rotors or do i just keep them stock 91 coupe single pot rotors?

Also, is there anything i can replace the hardlines with, if not where can i get a set of hardlines???

tahnks

Icemark

There are the base model brakes which are single piston fronts and solid disk single piston rears, and there are the 4 pistons front brakes with vented rears found on everything but the base model. So its not turbo or non turbo brakes. Its strippy base model and everything else brakes.

The four piston and vented rear brakes can be bolted on, however new soft lines are needed, and of course the rears will need the vented rotor, caliper, and hub.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Mark,

Are the later 5 lug single piston front brakes (S5?) the same calipers as the earlier 4 lug single piston fronts?

Also, you can use the N/A soft lines on the TII front brakes, they fit fine, you just have to twist the caliper on to the line. I have N/A braided lines on my setup with TII brakes, and I had the stock N/A soft lines on there prior.

Icemark

No, how could they be... the 4 piston calipers have well (ackward pause) 4 pistons... not single pistons, like the 5 lug single piston calipers would have.

Again, Turbo and Non turbo 5 lug 4 piston calipers use the same soft lines... they are exactly the same... not sure what you are saying.

Perhaps you are refering to base model single piston brakes (which are only found on the bottom rung of the FC model chain) as non turbo brakes??? This of course would be inaccurate as more non turbo models came with 4 piston front brakes, than came with single piston brakes. And of course that the non turbo GXL and Sport models came with those brakes; a year before the Turbo was even available.

This then would explain you claiming the use of the soft lines... yes you can use the softlines from a base model single piston brake on a system with 4 piston brakes, but the line gets easily damaged, and pinched... much more easily than if you used the correct soft line. I would imagine that the lines would also tend to split at the couplers, but I have no proof of if they would split there or if it is mid line.

Rotary_7

do i need hardlines to connect the softlines???


(I'm like lost about this softline hardline stuff.....are the soft lines the brake lines??)

sunshine

iTrader: (3)

The hardlines that come from the BMC (brake master cyl) will all be the same (except perhaps if you have the ABS stuff...which I have zero experience with). Then there is also a short hjard line that comes from the caliper and terminates at the strut bracket. The soft line conects the BMC hardline at the inner fender to the hardline at the strut body.

You should get a new hardline for the caliper to strut portion. The hardline from the BMC should be fine as it is.
-a

Rotary_7

where can i find hardlines?
the one that came on my calipers fer cut for sum reason

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

There are three factory brake setups (at the wheels) on FCs.

4 bolt, single piston front and rear disks (found on base S4 cars only)
5 bolt, single piston front and rear disks (non vented rears) (found S5 cars only)
5 bolt, 4 pot front, single pot rear, 4 wheel disk (vented rears) (found on both S5 and S4 cars)

As far as the differences and similarities between the two 5 lug setups:
The front rotors are the same.
The rear soft lines are the same.
The calipers from either setup will bolt onto the other.
The rear rotors are different
The rear calipers are different.
The front calipers are different (DUH).
The front soft lines are different and not interchangable IMO.
The front 4 pot calipers require a small hardline mounted to the caliper and the strut. The single pots do not.

It is a huge upgrade to go from the 4-bolt to the 5-bolt 4-pot setup. As the 4 bolt brakes are aweful, I used to burn up calipers, pads, and/or rotors every other month on my 87base with the 4 bolt brakes. They didn't last half a day at the track no mater what pads i used.

The upgrade from S5 5-bolt single pot to 4 pot with vented rears is a minor upgrade, but important if you use your car at the track. I don't think there is alot of benefit for a street driven car between these two setups, but some.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Mark,

If you'd READ my post, I said the SINGLE piston 5 lug front brakes, i.e. S5 GTU. Do those use the same calipers as 4 lug SINGLE piston front brakes? It was a curiousity question.

Sorry I wasn't more clear here, my fault. I upgraded from 4 lug, single pot brakes to 5 lug 4 pot brakes. I used the same soft lines, the attachment location is the same threading, and the actual location of the point is within an inch or so, there is no more stress on the lines, 20K miles of driving without issues. My brake setup didn't come with the small hard lines from the caliper to the strut, so I made do with what I had, no issues.

So, are the front calipers the same between S5 GTU and S4 SE?

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

The little hard lines are relativly cheap from mazda....i guess i would use what was intended and known safe, especially when it comes to brakes.

Rotary_7

so i wont have to change the rotors (I have a 91 coupe w/ single pots) and i could just swap on the 4pots after i get some hardlines and brake lines???

Mason Rx7

From my understanding on the S5 you do NOT need new brake lines. You DO need the hardlines however.

I have a set of 4-pots sitting in my garage waiting to be swapped onto my single pot 5 lug car. S5 GTU.

When I researched this swap that^ is what I found.

Your profile says that you have a 91. So that should mean you just need the hardlines and calipers. From my understanding at least...

yusoslo

Ok I have just read through this and I havent seen it answered yet...I have 4 lug single piston brakes on my 88 base model.

I dont want to do a 5lug conversion because I will loose 3 good sets of wheels and tires, track, stock, show.

Can I put the 4 piston calipers on my setup????

If it makes any difference I have stainless brakes lines right now.

Icemark

yep that'll teach me to not speed read

Rotary_7

ok....just to clarify...

All i need for this conversion is the Calipers and the harlines correct??


BTW: when should calipers be rebuilt???

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

I do not think you can do anything to that setup without replaceing everything:
Hubs, rotors, pads, lines, calipers all around, but i have not done that swap personally, I have only converted a 90 GTU to the 4-pot, vented rear setup.

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

You CAN use your stainless brake lines on the 4 piston brakes. I have them on mine, they fit fine. The ONLY disadvantage vs. hard lines in between is that they are slightly more of a pain to remove from the calipers, which really doesn't matter, unless you disassemble your entire braking system often. It makes no difference in daily use, or even rotor or pad replacement.

The rotors, I do not know, but it's probably a good idea to replace them anyway. From visual inspection the hubs seem to be the same between single and 4 piston 5 LUG hubs, and it would be reasonable that Mazda would have made a single part for that, but you might check out part numbers in the FSM or MazdaTrix.com for more information.

Rotary_7

OMFG !!!!! I called mazda 2day and the hardlines are 29 each?!!??!!?making that almost 60 for both calipers?!?!!?!?!?


anyone has these for sale used??? (i should post this on the classified section)

yusoslo

thanks for the info digitalsolo.

I will find out about the part numbers...but was curious did you notice a big difference when you changed the calipers out.

I am doing it regardless because this is my track car, and I will be getting new rotors and pads.

Carbotech baby! best pads in the world

digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

No problem, glad to help out.

I'm not a good barometer for the difference. I had a seized front passenger caliper when I swapped. I just figured since the braking system needed gone through, that I might as well upgrade it, especially for the price.

I can however state that the 4 pot brakes with slotted rotors, performance friction pads, stainless lines and DOT5 fluid, is one of the best all around brake packages I've driven. For a track car, obviously hotter pads are needed, but overall I'm quite impressed with them.

yusoslo

so you are running dot 5 fluid??

For some reason I thought that you could only use dot 4.
Maybe it was just heresay but I believe I was told it had to do with the master cylinder seals or something needed to be rebuild to run dot5 fluid.

I will give it a try though I have always used motul dot4 and have never had them boil.

Rotary_7

One more clarrifying question....well 2.....and ill stop being annoying

are the harlines from a 88gxl the same as ones from a 90 t2???
cuz last time i asked for a 90 t2 and they said 29 each....this tym i called for a 88 gxl they said it was 10.50 ......i wonder why......but no matter what they will fit right???

also, those are the only 2 things i need right?? (Caliper and HArdline???)

THANKSS

Go48

iTrader: (7)

Sorry to resurrect this thread Rock, but I'm heading out to some salvage yards in search of a set of 4-pot calipers and I want to make sure I don't buy the wrong versions for my S5 GTU. (I already picked up a pair on eBay that were DOA so I want to look at them first before buying.)

Question for clarification: Are the S4 and S5, 4-pot calipers the same? In other words, I should ask the salvage guy for 86-92 4-piston calipers. That's my take on the bolded sentence in your original post, but I want to make sure. Thanks!