rosey

iTrader: (1)

Nope, it would need to be a hotwire MAF sensor and the EFI system has to have enough range and the operating system has to be smart enough to compensate.

I as said before, I think a properly setup dry kit on a 13b fc is probably going to cost more than the car itself. Add to that the fact that the n/a 13b likes low octane n/a, and would be more susceptible to knock without higher octane fuels on nitrous and it may not be the most attractive option for this application. My argument is simply that a properly setup dry kit is hands down safer, and will eventually standardize itself to being the preferred method of nitrous use for EFI engines.

Whats the answer for this specific case? Propane could be it, but it seems to be a more intricate setup then the OP planned for. I think running direct port sounds like a good idea in theory, but I have no first hand experience with this and don't even have a n/a intake manifold around to look at. All in all the single nozzle wet is probably going to end up being the most cost effective option, while there are all sorts of disadvantages that come along with this, the cheapness and fact the it could be installed, and running in a few hours at most make it somewhat attractive. The engine only being worth a few hundred bucks helps move this idea along too

You also might want to upgrade to propane as a fuel later on once you get the bugs worked out, all you'll really need is a fuel solenoid that can take some extra pressure, some hoses, propane tank, and a hobs switch to mount at the fuel noid.

RotaMan99

For years I have heard wet was better. Mainly because people thought you would pop the motor easily and wet was safer. I know I'm not the OP but thats for sharing your input.

You think it would be cheaper then swapping to a turbo'ed system?

The Shaolin

iTrader: (5)

Uhhh...are you asking if a nitrous setup is cheaper than swapping a turbo engine in? Very much so.



Didn't get much done this weekend, waiting until I have a few days off so I can pull the engine again.

I managed to break a caliper bolt off on both sides removing the rear brakes, so off came the hubs and I drilled them both out. I suppose I'll be replacing wheel bearings as long as I have the hubs off, as the one bearing is completely shot.

Hopefully in 3 weeks I can get the engine out, fix the 6 ports, swap the steering rack, install the motor mounts and start working on getting this thing running!

scathcart

Jet to the power I want to make? I like to maximize the power production for any given set up. The whole ideology of: "Just throw more nitrous at it" is what gave nitrous its bad name to begin with.

Scenario: I've got an engine that runs great on its existing injectors. I'd much rather simply swap a fuel jet than have to fork out $400 for 4 new injectors.

Twice. Once on a single fogger system, before the TB, on an unmodded TB. Secondary throttle plates were not opening fully. The second was a failure of the auxilary ports to open at their correct RPM, hence my reasoning for always using a system disconnect if the auxilary ports are not both fully open.
In both instances, the only damage from the backfire was the intake coupling popping apart. Simple fix.
You act as though a dry kit cannot cannot nitrous backfire, and fuel doesn't hit the runner walls with fuel injectors. Definitely seen that before with the moron import racers at the track. Think its impossible? Pretty easy to watch on a flowbench. They're easy to build, you should try it for yourself. Compare the two systems.

First off, a fuel solenoid stuck open results in an engine that runs massively rich off nitrous, not a blown engine.
Never had either nitrous or fuel stick open, I regularly service my solenoids and use filters. Its regular maintenance, like changing your oil. Above 300hp shot levels, I use a safety back solenoid on the nitrous side.
You act as though its impossible to blow an engine on dry systems... wrong map= blown engine.

Dry systems are built for low power levels. I never build a system with any intent on injecting less than 150 shot. Good luck using your dry kit on a 300 shot on a rotary.

Set up things correctly on a wet kit, and your results are more power, more power capability, and excellent reliability. Set it up wrong, blow your engine.
Set up things correctly on a dry kit, and you're fine for small power levels. Set it up wrong, blow your engine.
I'll take wet thanks.

scathcart

An example of a starting point for a 4-port LIM. All obstructions into the runners removed and welded closed, and all runners flow-matched to the engine's ports.

scathcart

The engine that LIM is mated to.

rosey

iTrader: (1)

I don't understand what is wrong with that statement, in a piston engine, cylinder pressures are proportional to the amount of torque the engine is making. The power you are making will dictate how much mechanical stress. If there is another factor that I am not seeing with rotary engines, feel free to enlighten me.

I'm still not convinced that a wet kit will make more power all factors being equal. Here is a dyno graph of an ls1 with a 100 shot wet, and then a 100 shot dry. All that was changed was the fuel line was capped off, and the nozzle was moved in front of the MAF. Same solenoid, same jet, same lines, same nozzle.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...N-wetvsdry.JPG

He did this to prove that a dry kit hits just as hard as a wet kit. The dry kit made 15hp more, admittedly due to the bottle pressure being up a little on the dry. I have a hard time believing that the differences wouldn't have been negligible had the bottle pressure been the same.

Forward thinking. If you know your engine is going to be making 600whp on nitrous, you buy injectors sized for 600whp before you tune it. I'm not arguing that changing a fuel jet is simpler for the average hot-rodder, but rescaling for different injectors can be done in 30 seconds in a lot of cases, plus a little fiddling to make sure its perfect.

Dry systems certainly can backfire, but for every dry backfire, there are probably hundreds of wet. I would consider yourself very lucky to have only popped the intake off on a backfire.

Not sure what I was thinking when I said it would blow and engine, that probably wouldn't be the case. Having the fuel solenoid stick open would be dumping tons of raw fuel in front of the intake, certainly not a very safe scenario.

True that the tune will need to be correct, much like a forced induction setup. If you go lean under boost, you risk serious engine damage. The damage is operator error, and is not due to inherent flaws in the design of the nitrous kit.

Rubbish, dry systems can be built however you want them to be built. No reason that a dry shot can't be built for the same sized shot as a wet kit. I know people running 300+ dry shots on a piston engine, and plan to run 200+ shots on my own piston engine once I add a second stage. Currently I have been limited to ~125 shot due to fuel system restraints(pump/lines). Again, I don't see where a rotary engine would be any different, yes you would need control over your engine, but assuming you had it, there is no reason that you couldn't run the dry shot just as large as the wet shot.

Again, why only for small power levels on dry kits? True setting it up wrong will probably end in a blown engine either way, but set it up right, and the dry kit will be safer.

run_rabbit_run

that intake manifold is hardcore scathcart...a piece de resistance

Latin270

Any updates?

The Shaolin

iTrader: (5)

I thought you'd never ask!




I'm home for about a month now and my goal is to get it running before I leave for break.



I figured out the original color of the car....it's the dark silver! Wow, I can't really tell by looking at the door sills or anything. The inside has a tiny remainder of very plush maroon carpet...i'm glad that's gone.

Over Thanksgiving, I got quite a bit of work done...I got the engine back OUT, installed the TO bearing (slaps forehead), I installed solid motor mounts and I swapped to a manual steering rack. I also removed the rear calipers and completely rebuilt them.

I installed the driveshaft. I especially liked the part in the FSM where it says that if you experience vibration after installing a new driveshaft, try putting some weights on some random bolts and see if that fixes it.

I ran the wiring for my pyrometer and wbo2 sensors.

I've gotten the back hubs off and the DTSS bushings out....they were rotting out really bad. Here are the hubs off the car with the bushings out. I will take them in tomorrow to get new bearings and seals pressed in.




I swapped in a new master/slave clutch assembly and bled it...one of the three pedals works, does that mean i'm 1/3 of the way done?

The engine harness is finally installed on the car. It is all plugged in the inside of the firewall, just have a few odds and ends to tie up in the engine bay.



I installed the engine oil cooler today...no matter how long you let those things drain, they never seem to run out of oil....haha.


Priorities in the next few days:

1) Get the *** end back on the ground, make the car roll-able again; install rear calipers and get the brake system bled all the way through.
2) Run all vaccuum, fuel, and coolant hoses in the engine bay. New fuel filter.
3) Install upper intake manifold, throttle body, throttle cable, second fuel rail.
4) Drain the fuel tank of whatever 6+ year old gasoline is in there, put a few gallons in and run the fuel pump to make sure the lines are clear.

I was trying to remove the DTSS half bushings from the part of the knuckle still on the car with two sockets and a lag bolt...and I snapped off this half inch bolt and almost killed myself...lol. I looked for 5 minutes and never found the other half



And so the score after the first period is: Bushings - 1, Nathan - 0



As for the 6 port/VDI problem, I'm considering ditching the fancy diagram and just doing the electric conversion writeup twice...which is going to require two RPM switches and two bicycle pumps, but whatever.

What's this thing and what should I do with it?




I've still got lots and lots to do, but I'm getting there...progress is sweet.

The Shaolin

iTrader: (5)

Don't make me start a new thread!!!


What's this thing and what should I do with it?




Other things:

Gas in tank appears to still be good...and the tank is pretty damn full, I drained about 2 gallons and it was still coming out hard. Gas smells good.

Drained differential

Wheel bearing problem referred to here:https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/rear-wheel-bearing-still-very-wobbly-after-replacement-716680/

I'm going to talk to my machinist tomorrow and see what the deal is on that hub....and i'm working on wiring in the engine bay right now. If you know harnesses (specifically the one that the battery connects to) keep an eye on this thread because I am confused as ****.

The Shaolin

iTrader: (5)

One step forward, two steps back.


Maybe more than two.


Accomplished:

-Fixed wobbly wheel bearing. Needed to be pressed in farther.
-Drained differential, filled it most of the way, need to rig something up to pump the rest in.
-Installed rear hub carriers, calipers, rotors, and pads.
-Installed header, purchased new nuts for manifold studs.


Holy fack, it looks like something!




20 minutes of good brake bleeding. Filled the reservoir twice, pedal is coming up, caliper is superlubed and starting to move, things are looking great, when I hear something fall off the back of the car somewhere, followed by the sound of squirting liquid.



FACK FACK FACK.

I split a hard line. I guess I would rather it split now then when I'm driving, but now I'm going to bend new brake line from the proportioning valve in the engine bay all the way back to the rear calipers. Considering running new fuel line while i'm at it.

WTB: Lift.

At least I have all week off, so hopefully I'll make some real progress.

Latin270

Hang in there brother! No one said it was going to be easy but you learn much along the way.!

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm, rust. I am glad I moved away from the Chicagoland area. My 7 would be a heap by now!!

Keep going. I had some brake issues on my 626 about the same time you did. Except instead of a hardline rupturing, I had 75% of the bleeder screws snap off. Lol.

The Shaolin

iTrader: (5)

Luckily, all my brake bleeder screws on the back came loose...the front calipers were in much worse shape, those are brand new.

I ordered a ton of new parts, parking brake cables, brake hoses, pads....Rockauto was having a wholesale closeout and I got most of hte stuff for half price.