platinumyama32

hahah, this should be my last annoying thread for you guys.. my 6port turbo project is all finished up, except when i went to crank her up today--nothin. it just kept turnin over, never fired up..

ive read about jumping the injector bleed system by puttin a jumper wire in the yellow connector on the passenger shock tower, but im not sure how to do that.. do you just put a wire from one plug to the other plug in that connector? and then turn they key?

i think thats the only reason that i can think that would cause it not to start.
any suggestions?

a buddy of mine was here and suggested it might not have spark (although i have no reason to believe it wouldnt all of a sudden?)
so we pulled the trailing cap off the spark plug on rear iron and stuck a screw driver in it, held the shaft from the screwdriver about 1/8th inch away from the TB to test for spark and via that method it has nothing..

was this is a solid approach test the spark? if so, any reason why it wouldnt have spark all of a sudden? the only things electrical i have done instal SAFC, replace stock ECU(n327 i believe) with N333, and lengthen the BACV plug wires so it reached the TII location.

im stumped.

cezonetheillest

i had a problem similar to this but it was just that i had my injector plugs hooked up wrong. it wouldn't start for a week. i put an extra cas on and spun it to see which injectors were clicking and thats how i figured that my injectors were hooked up wrong. hope this helps. also spinning the cas with the key on will let you know if you have spark also.

876portturbo

iTrader: (4)

I once forgot to plug the coolant temp sender in (haltech), car would barely start without flooding and ran horribly. Plugged it in later, good to go. I guess it needs to know these things

platinumyama32

i've tried another method to figure out whats wrong..

"If you have a spare CAS, you can save a lot of wear and tear on the starter and engine, if you take that spare and connect it to the elect plug that is on the cas on the engine. Then key ON and spin the lower gear on the spare cas and listen for spark/fuel injectors clicking. Once you confirm you have that clicking, then put the elect plug back on the cas on the engine and have a go at it."

i plugged in a spare CAS and with the key on, cranked the gear, it has spark and the injectors click fine..

i also hooked up a jumperwire to the injector bleed plug, and turned the key on then. im unclear about this though, i did it for about 1-2 minutes and it was still hissing/gargling, is it supposed to stop?

maybe im not getting fuel.. whats the proper/best/easiest way to check that im gettin fuel...

also, since i came up with no spark last night, would that mean maybe the CAS thats in the car is bad?
since the spare one i used created spark.
is there a difference between NA/TII s4/s5 CAS's?

HAILERS

CAS's are all the same.

If you jumpered the two socket Fuel Pump Check connector with the key to ON, then that makes the fuel pump work constantly. It should run .......constantly. You SHOULD hear the fuel passing thru the fuel rails and return to the tank.

To prove there is fuel, pull the REAR fuel line off where the two fuel lines mate with the HARD fuel lines on the engine. Put a container under the HARD line. Fuel should gush out proving there is fuel to the fuel rails.

IF you had spak when you spun the cas bottom gear on the spare cas,then you have spark when the cas in the engine has the plug reinstalled and the engine turns that cas's bottom gear.

I can PROVE it beyond a shadow of a doubt IF your game. Pull a trail sparkplug wire off. Wet your finger and touch the conductor. With your other hand grab some metal part on the engine. Like the alternator housing. Have someone go to Start for five seconds. Now write back on how you don't have spark. I bet you won't.

platinumyama32

HAILERS, thanks...

i did jumper the fuel pump check, and fuel does constantly run through the rails, i can hear it constantly flowing.

i will go pull off the rear fuel line line and see if the fuel comes out (which i now believe it will)

so if i have spark with the spare CAS, and that meaning theres spark with the CAS in the engine, why the hell wont it start?

i took off the rear fuel line, let it hang, turned the key for a good 30 seconds
and fuel came out, im not exactly sure "how much" though, cause i couldnt see it, being the only person there.. so i dont know if it was gushing out as it should be, but i know it came out. ill try and get a friend over to turn the key while i check the fuel flow coming out as soon as i can

Badmofo3000

iTrader: (5)

Had the same issue and burned me for a an hour or so. Turns out my CAS was mis-aligned! Hope this helps.

platinumyama32

that does help, cause i had to take my CAS out to switch to the TII front cover.. so even though i took great care to keep it in the same position/alignment as it was before, its definately possible i messed it up a bit.... how did you manage to re-align it, correctly?

did you car have the same symptoms as mine??

thanks man

okay i got a buddy and he turned the key as i examined the fuel line.. hardly any fuel was coming out, just a slow drip... so that didnt seem right. then i put the jumper wire back in the yellow connector and turned the key on (with the fuel line still off) and it came pouringggg out, like its supposed to.

this means when im turnin the key to start it, the fuel pump isnt sending enough fuel? would this have to do with the SAFC at all? or the fuel pump resistor/relay? i dont know anything about them...

at least im narrowin it down a little bit here haha... anyone got any more suggestions?

okay.. still stumped, starting to get pissed.

since it had fuel pressure with the jumper wire, and not without it (when starting)
i left the jumper wire in and tried starting it ... still didnt start.

since i didnt rule out the possibilty of the CAS being off.
i tried to re-stab it into place.
(pulley -paint was wayyy gone, so i read the the mark on the right when facing the rear of the car is the one to use, correct? well i set it on the right mark and then removed the CAS, and the CAS cap, and set it into place keeping the the gear aligned.

tried starting.. still nothin.

put the jumper wire back in, tried starting.. still nothin again.

what the hell is wrong here?????

HAILERS

The fuel pump does NOT run just with the key to ON. You have to HOLD the key to START for the pump to work.

platinumyama32

the fuel pump does run with the key to ON, with the jumper wire in.

with the fuel line off and they key held to START, fuel barely trickles out(w/o jumper wire).

with the jumper wire in it still doesn't start

does this sound like anything to anyone?

i really cant figure it out...
if it has spark (which it does via the spare CAS test) and the CAS is aligned correctly (which im sure it is now that i restabbed it) and the fuel is getting pumped through (which isnt enough on its own, but is with the jumperwire) why wont it start?

since ive been thinking about it
im starting to believe its somethin electrical...

i recently noticed that the Tach needle doesn't bounce when im trying to start it.. it only bounces once for the first second when i turn the key to START, but if i hold it on START it doesnt bounce, it just lays flat.

and the battery wont hold charge/dies now (i have to keep a charger on it to try and start it)

without the charger it dies quickly..

would any of this happen because of the SAFC ?
i tend to think that's the problem, cause its the only wires that i have changed/altered at all (besides ECU and lengthenin BAC wires)

i really appreciate all the help you guys are givin me, but i need to get this figured out sooner than later.

any more suggestions HAILERS ?
Aaron ? NZConvert?

anyone?

...

86gxl_fc

are your grounds good?
i had this same problem with mine, i ended up running a manual switch to the fuel pump.
so i doubled it up as a fuel cut switch... just a suggestion.

platinumyama32

what grounds are you talking about? i have no reason to believe they should be bad i dont think?.. can you be more specific?

i think tomorrow im gonna try and recrimp my SAFC wires/check the terminals on the battery

LeeTheSlacker

check the safc wires.

if the afm ones are fucked up itll act up.

also check your fuel line routing. i fucked mine up when i boosted my 6port and fucked up the return so only my primaries were getting fuel and no fuel was returning. also if you get the feed and return backwards the car will not start but there will be fuel in the rails. take a gander at the fsm and double check your routing.

that and be realllll conservative.
i went that route
stock turbo, 550/720. safc2
mine ended up blowing though, but i want to do it again with a real ecu and fix the halfass stuff i did the first time.

slo

iTrader: (1)

A couple of things I have done or heard of:

fuel pump wired backwards pump makes noise but no pressure

fuel lines backwards either from engine to firewall, or from rails to the connection tubes. everything makes noise and sparks, no or insufficient fuel pressure to injectors.

platinumyama32

lee:
im definately gonna check the SAFC wires, as well as the Terminals, and the ECU ground (on the block)... i have a funny feeling about them SAFC wires so ill make sure i get them all really good..

im positive that i hooked the fuel lines up correctly. i drew a diagram of how they were before i removed them, 2x checked it with the FSM, and connected them both properly again (minus the vac rack)

slo:
the pump i think is wired correct because with the jumperwire in the test connect, it has great pressure

and the reversed lines - like i said, positive theyre right.


thanks

HAILERS

The fuel pump does not run with just the key to ON (no ground on the circuit opening relay to pull it in)

The fuel pump does run with the key held to start (coil in the circuit opening relay gets 12vdc to pull in the relay)

The fuel pump runs if the engine is running (afm fuel switch *makes* and supplys a gnd to the circuit opening relay coil, to pull the relay in.

The fuel pump pulls in if the key is to ON and the fuel pump check connector is jumpered (that act puts a gnd on the circuit opening relays coil which in turn pulls the relay in). The jumper wire simulates the afm internal fuel switch. Same wire circuit to the circuit opening relay's coil.

So pull the small blade connector off the starter solenoid so the starter won't turn over when the key is put to start. Now pull the fuel return line off the engine and go to start. See if fuel pours out now or not. It should. IF not, then for some reason the wire from the start circuit isn't making it's way to the circuit opening relay which in turn feeds the fuel pump.

Then again, if you had the jumper in and key to On or better, the pump should have run and if you had spark it should have started.

I forget. Is this a turbo swap? into a n/a? That explains the bac harness lenghtened. You get spark and fuel injector clicking when the cas is spun by had and key to ON. Reinstall the cas plug on the cas in the engine and the thing won't start.

Nope. No new ideas here. Other than this and it's the last idea. PUll the large plug off the Main Relay. Make two small jumper wires. Jumper the black/white wire to the white/blue wire and then jumper the black/yellow wire to the black/green wire.

This bypasses the Main relay and feeds the fuel injectors, the coils and power to the ECU without having to hold the key to START. So there's no way you'll lose these functions when you go to start the engine by holding the key to start.

Once you do this jumper thing, there will be a drain on the battery so you need to start the car as soon as possible to keep from draining the battery.

I suggest this just in case there is a ignition key problem and for some reason your losing power to the main relay when you hold the key to start. You won't lose power to the essentials by jumpering the plug.

OH. The main relay has another plug that is only two wires. Just disconnect that plug and do nothing to it. NO jumpers in it. Nothing. Just disconnect it

Main Relay is the LARGE relay near the trail coils and has two elect plugs on it.

platinumyama32

i will try these all out and let you know...
and in case you forgot, its a 6port turbo conversion, not a motor swap.

thanks a ton

HAILERS

I'm curious but don't really think this is your problem...are you using the stock na EM harness? It should work. It's the same harness that worked on your non turbo so it should work on the six port turbo.

Since you have spark and fuel injector clicking when manually spinning the cas bottom gear it should have started.

About the timing...........align the mark on the front pulley with the fixed pointer. Remove the top cover off the cas, It's just two phillips screws. Remove the cas from the engine also.

Align the cas's bottom marks as per the FSM. THEN look in the top of the cas and the position of the two pointers on the rotor. They should be pointing to the edges of the two black coils in the side of the cas body. Remember this position. Now stab the cas. Rotate the body of the cas until the two pointers are exactly where they were when you looked at them earlier. Then cinch the cas down. The timing should be within five degrees of where it should be when you check it later with a timing light and the engine is running.

LeeTheSlacker

check your lines again anyway.

i used a na primary rail and t2 secondary and ran them exactly how it was before.

problem is, the fpr and return line are on opposite sides on the tii rails.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Uh, something odd happened when I went to merge two posts in this thread and they got deleted instead. Here they are:

platinumyama32

UPDATE:

it started up, for about 1 second
now it does this consistently..

itll start rev up to 3500, then die and i cant keep it running.

ive read some stuff about things like this before but i cant remember, tried searching but i dont know what to search for?

refresher course anyone? how i can keep it running?

im soooooooooo close

Mankdrake 2661

iTrader: (8)

Are you using the N/A AFM or the T2 AFM?
And Have you tried deflooing the motor?

platinumyama32

TII AFM.. no i havent tried deflooding,since it starts up - i didnt think it could be flooded?

itll start everytime i turn the key, rev immediately to 3.5k or so, and die instantly, and i cant keep it alive



--just had a thought, would it have anything to do with the o2 sensor not being plugged in? i really dont think it does, bui just thought of that, cause the wire got cut somewhere and i cant find where it comes out of the harness so its not currently hooked up..

keenangodburn

im haveing the exact same problem with my 87 n/a tii swap. but min will only start up if i dissconnect the fuel pump but then it runs out of fuel and dies. but if i try to plug the fuel pump in while its barely running it dies....wierd...

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

If the run-time is consistent (i.e. runs for 4 seconds everytime and dies) its probably the fuel pump resistor.

You can verify this by checking voltage at the fuel pump. Hook up a DMM to the fuel pump, start car - you should be seeing a good 12V at the pump. If the car dies and the voltage stays at 12ish - then you have another problem. If the voltage drops to zero or close to it just before the car dies, then replace the fuel pump resistor.

If you do happen to find the voltage to the pump shutting off - jumper the test connector again, start it, and see if it stays running - that will solidify the resistor being the issue.