My 90 RX7 will not turn over/start. The starter itself is fine.
03-03-09, 09:10 PM
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My 90 RX7 will not turn over/start. The starter itself is fine.
I didn't get many responses in the new members section, so I'm posting this on here.
I have a 1990 N/A 5spd RX7
It's not flooded!
I changed the clutch master cylinder out 2 days ago. The new master is working just fine, but the car has not run since.
The battery is fully charged.
I connected 12v to the ignition on the starter and it turned my car over just fine.
All of the accesories work just fine on the car, including the fuel pump, when the ignition is switched to on.
The switch on the clutch pedal is fine. I've even bypassed it just to check and there was no change.
When I turn the switch to start, there is no clicking from the starter, the lights do not dim, and voltage does not drop.
My guess is I've accidentally bumped something or something shorted out when I changed the master. I've never had any problem starting the car before this in 14 months of ownership.
Any help from more experienced members would be greatly appreciated!
I have a 1990 N/A 5spd RX7
It's not flooded!
I changed the clutch master cylinder out 2 days ago. The new master is working just fine, but the car has not run since.
The battery is fully charged.
I connected 12v to the ignition on the starter and it turned my car over just fine.
All of the accesories work just fine on the car, including the fuel pump, when the ignition is switched to on.
The switch on the clutch pedal is fine. I've even bypassed it just to check and there was no change.
When I turn the switch to start, there is no clicking from the starter, the lights do not dim, and voltage does not drop.
My guess is I've accidentally bumped something or something shorted out when I changed the master. I've never had any problem starting the car before this in 14 months of ownership.
Any help from more experienced members would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by MyRX7isbrokenagain; 03-03-09 at 09:11 PM. Reason: typo
03-03-09, 09:46 PM
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check the wire going to the Solenoid.I think there is a Connector in between the Wire connection on the End where it meets the solenoid and the Big Wrap of harness( at the Side of the Engine,around the Oil pedestal,filter area).If that wire has become disconnected then there is NO 12volts to the Solenoid from the switch when you turn the Switch to Start..The result is absolutely Nothing when you turn the Key.
03-04-09, 07:12 AM
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A manual series five looks like the jpg attached. A ECAT series five is a bit different. A series four is a bit different.
Anyway, the plug X-09 located after the interlock switch, seemingly is round and one wire. Black/Red. Below the maser cylinder area....somewhere. Menitoned in a post above.
Anyway, the plug X-09 located after the interlock switch, seemingly is round and one wire. Black/Red. Below the maser cylinder area....somewhere. Menitoned in a post above.
03-04-09, 07:39 PM
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How do I bypass the starter relay? I bypassed the clutch switch, if I can bypass the starter relay I think I'll be sure what's wrong.
The plug you mentioned is firmly connected, still no change.
The plug you mentioned is firmly connected, still no change.
03-04-09, 08:08 PM
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The Starter Cut Relay is used only on cars with THEFT protection. So if you have that item, then just pull the plug off the Theft UNIT. That should make the relay relax and the contacts in it *make* the circuit.
Or remove the relay. Look at the plug on the harness. Make a jumper wire and jumper b/t the large black/red and the black/green wire. That competes the circuit to the starter solenoid.
Or remove the relay. Look at the plug on the harness. Make a jumper wire and jumper b/t the large black/red and the black/green wire. That competes the circuit to the starter solenoid.
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03-04-09, 08:23 PM
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I've tried that already with no luck, what's the next step?
I've got the GXL (I think that's the one) with adjustable shocks and theft protection.
I've got the GXL (I think that's the one) with adjustable shocks and theft protection.
Last edited by MyRX7isbrokenagain; 03-04-09 at 08:29 PM.
03-04-09, 10:44 PM
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i had the same problem. just clicked when i would try to crank it. i was just messing around and added a ground from the battery to the engine and it worked fine. maybe u could try that
03-06-09, 03:12 PM
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The starter does not click. It's not receiving the signal to start the starter form the ignition.
I've added some sweet pictures of the Starter Cut Relay. It has differently colored wires than what was mentioned by Hailers. I've already tried to loop the two larger black/green and black/blue wires together with no success.
The 4 pins are labeled com, NC, coil and coil.
If I can bypass this garbage then I can try to find something else that's the problem. Clutch switch is already bypassed.
I've added some sweet pictures of the Starter Cut Relay. It has differently colored wires than what was mentioned by Hailers. I've already tried to loop the two larger black/green and black/blue wires together with no success.
The 4 pins are labeled com, NC, coil and coil.
If I can bypass this garbage then I can try to find something else that's the problem. Clutch switch is already bypassed.
03-06-09, 05:14 PM
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Shoulda worked. Make sure you have the right two wires jumpered. There are two B/G wires. Jumper the ones I have shown in the jpg attached.
If your cluch interlock switch is jumpered, the you should be able to take a meter and ohm out from the B/G on the starter cut relay to the small wire on the starter solenoid (B/R). Try that to see if it ohms out. What??? one or two ohms from end to end.
If it does not ohm out, then there's an open b/t the B/R on the starter solenoid small wire and the B/G on the starter cut switch (like, duh, ain't I a smarty!).
And or put a meter on the B/L wire of the starter cut relay set on volts dc, and hold the key to Start. Should show??? batt voltage or a bit less, like 9vdc or so.
You seem to have the right starter cut relay. Got me. HAS THIS CAR EVER BEEN AN AUTOMATIC????????? Some wiring differences there. See series five FSM wiring for that.
This is insulting to write to you, because you seem to know your way around.................but your jumpering the Plug, right?? Not the relay. Right? Sorry 'bout asking that, but this does not make sense (the jumper not working and the clutch interlock sw jumpered).
EDIT: I've a clue. When you have things jumpered, and you HOLD the key to START, do you hear the fuel pump running??????? Listen carefully for the hummmmmm of the pump. IF that is the case, then looking at the dwg, that means your connector at X-09 is open (see it on the dwg??? say yes). Because as you see, when the voltage leaves the starter cut relay, that it goes two plcs. One is to the starter solenoid thru X-09, and the OTHER is to the Circuit Opening Relay. The Circuit Opening Relay causes the pump to come on when the key is put or HELD to ON. Dig it?
If your cluch interlock switch is jumpered, the you should be able to take a meter and ohm out from the B/G on the starter cut relay to the small wire on the starter solenoid (B/R). Try that to see if it ohms out. What??? one or two ohms from end to end.
If it does not ohm out, then there's an open b/t the B/R on the starter solenoid small wire and the B/G on the starter cut switch (like, duh, ain't I a smarty!).
And or put a meter on the B/L wire of the starter cut relay set on volts dc, and hold the key to Start. Should show??? batt voltage or a bit less, like 9vdc or so.
You seem to have the right starter cut relay. Got me. HAS THIS CAR EVER BEEN AN AUTOMATIC????????? Some wiring differences there. See series five FSM wiring for that.
This is insulting to write to you, because you seem to know your way around.................but your jumpering the Plug, right?? Not the relay. Right? Sorry 'bout asking that, but this does not make sense (the jumper not working and the clutch interlock sw jumpered).
EDIT: I've a clue. When you have things jumpered, and you HOLD the key to START, do you hear the fuel pump running??????? Listen carefully for the hummmmmm of the pump. IF that is the case, then looking at the dwg, that means your connector at X-09 is open (see it on the dwg??? say yes). Because as you see, when the voltage leaves the starter cut relay, that it goes two plcs. One is to the starter solenoid thru X-09, and the OTHER is to the Circuit Opening Relay. The Circuit Opening Relay causes the pump to come on when the key is put or HELD to ON. Dig it?
03-07-09, 12:31 PM
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The fuel pump does come on when the switch is set to on. I'm not sure about when it's held to on. Honestly I think it goes off. It sounds like it's under the hood, on the passenger side.
The car has a Mazda reman engine in it, but has always been a 5 speed.
I laughed when you asked about the relay. I'm not that much of an idiot, just not nearly as familiar with the electrical niggles inherent to the rx7 as you are.
That being said, it's not like I'm a mechanic so I'm sure I've missed something. I appreciate your help!
I've got an electrical tester. I won't be able to look at the car again until Tuesday evening so I'll let you know what it says. I've got to convince someone to come over and hold the key off and on while I check stuff too.
The stupid relay is $60. So it'd be nice if I didn't have to waste money on it.
The car has a Mazda reman engine in it, but has always been a 5 speed.
I laughed when you asked about the relay. I'm not that much of an idiot, just not nearly as familiar with the electrical niggles inherent to the rx7 as you are.
That being said, it's not like I'm a mechanic so I'm sure I've missed something. I appreciate your help!
I've got an electrical tester. I won't be able to look at the car again until Tuesday evening so I'll let you know what it says. I've got to convince someone to come over and hold the key off and on while I check stuff too.
The stupid relay is $60. So it'd be nice if I didn't have to waste money on it.
Last edited by MyRX7isbrokenagain; 03-07-09 at 12:34 PM.
03-07-09, 01:12 PM
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You could check your main fuse and make sure it's not blown. My main fuse was blown once and all of my accesories worked, but the starter wouldn't click over or anything. I know this may seem like a stupid idea, but it may be worth a look.
03-07-09, 01:13 PM
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The pump should NOT work by putting the key ON. The pump should run if the key is HELD to START.
Hold it to START and have someone listen at the tank or the fuel tank cap with the cap off.
Relay????????? Oh the starter cut relay. DO NOT BUY ONE. When the THEFT unit decides there is a theft being commited, it pulls that relay in and opens the circuit to the starter. IF there is no theft detected by the theft unit, then the relay stays relaxed and the circuit to the starter is *made*/complete.
On series four cars that have no THEFT protection, there is no circuit opening relay at all. The electrical plug exists for the relay, but instead of a relay, there is a blue connector attached to the plug and that blue connector has a jumper in it that *makes* the black/green wire to the black/blue wire.
If you have a long piece of wire, you could attach one end of that wire to the black/green wire in the starter cut relay(the large black/green wire)........and then touch the other end of this piece of wire to the battery positive post. When you do that to a good car, the starter cranks over. No key required.
If you did that, that would prove/disprove the wiring is complete from the green/black wire in the starter cut relays plug to the starter solenoid. I've done this many times to turn the engine over while working in the engine bay.
So do NOT buy a starter cut relay. No relay.
Any of that make sense? Any of it not make sense? If not, then mention the part that makes no clear sense and I'll try again.
EDIT; I attached a jpg of the BLUE connector I mentioned above. This car had no Theft protection and so the plug for the relay is stuffed below the trail coil assy. It has the blue jumper plug on it and I think you might see the jumper wire on that blue plug. So it's not unusual for those two wires to be jumpered on a non theft protected car.
Yeah. Sorry 'bout the remark of jumpering the relay. Just a little puzzled why the starter does not work when you jumper the plug.
Hold it to START and have someone listen at the tank or the fuel tank cap with the cap off.
Relay????????? Oh the starter cut relay. DO NOT BUY ONE. When the THEFT unit decides there is a theft being commited, it pulls that relay in and opens the circuit to the starter. IF there is no theft detected by the theft unit, then the relay stays relaxed and the circuit to the starter is *made*/complete.
On series four cars that have no THEFT protection, there is no circuit opening relay at all. The electrical plug exists for the relay, but instead of a relay, there is a blue connector attached to the plug and that blue connector has a jumper in it that *makes* the black/green wire to the black/blue wire.
If you have a long piece of wire, you could attach one end of that wire to the black/green wire in the starter cut relay(the large black/green wire)........and then touch the other end of this piece of wire to the battery positive post. When you do that to a good car, the starter cranks over. No key required.
If you did that, that would prove/disprove the wiring is complete from the green/black wire in the starter cut relays plug to the starter solenoid. I've done this many times to turn the engine over while working in the engine bay.
So do NOT buy a starter cut relay. No relay.
Any of that make sense? Any of it not make sense? If not, then mention the part that makes no clear sense and I'll try again.
EDIT; I attached a jpg of the BLUE connector I mentioned above. This car had no Theft protection and so the plug for the relay is stuffed below the trail coil assy. It has the blue jumper plug on it and I think you might see the jumper wire on that blue plug. So it's not unusual for those two wires to be jumpered on a non theft protected car.
Yeah. Sorry 'bout the remark of jumpering the relay. Just a little puzzled why the starter does not work when you jumper the plug.
03-07-09, 01:27 PM
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I've been thinking about this a bit. Tell me, when you turn the key to ON, do the gauges move??? Like the volt meter in the dash should move up.
If not, then there is an explanation of why the starter does not work and the volt gauge does not work.
If not, then there is an explanation of why the starter does not work and the volt gauge does not work.
03-10-09, 04:47 PM
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All of the gauges work properly.
Hooking the green/black wire up to 12v does nothing.
Where is the xom? I think i've found it but I'm not sure. Any pictures? I'll post a curious picture I have tomorrow. A couple of wires not attached to anything under the car. The diameter is too small to be the ignition /xom thing though.
My rx7 is actually running right now. So everything but the ignition/starting is working perfectly(I mean, as well as it did before...). I can only get it to start by running power directly to the ignition post on the starter but it runs decently.
Hooking the green/black wire up to 12v does nothing.
Where is the xom? I think i've found it but I'm not sure. Any pictures? I'll post a curious picture I have tomorrow. A couple of wires not attached to anything under the car. The diameter is too small to be the ignition /xom thing though.
My rx7 is actually running right now. So everything but the ignition/starting is working perfectly(I mean, as well as it did before...). I can only get it to start by running power directly to the ignition post on the starter but it runs decently.
Last edited by MyRX7isbrokenagain; 03-10-09 at 05:16 PM.
03-10-09, 05:08 PM
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xom????? Mean X-09????????????
It's a single wire plug with a black/red wire. Shown in post #5 above. I THINK it's located below the Trail coil assy. Down in that area anyway. I've no picture.
It's a single wire plug with a black/red wire. Shown in post #5 above. I THINK it's located below the Trail coil assy. Down in that area anyway. I've no picture.
03-10-09, 06:46 PM
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Yes, I meant x09. Anyways I found it. After some rigorous trial-error and volt-o-meter testing I've determined the problem to be the wire between the starter relay and the x-09 plug. I'll replace the line and all should be well. Apparently when my engine was installed they spliced the black/green cable together with the black/red cable. When this length of wire is bypassed all is well. I/e a loop around the wire with another wire. I'll let you know once I've isntalled a new wire that all is working well. When bypassed it actually starts with the key too, so everything should be fine with the new wire.
Thanks for all the input Hailers, you're by far my favorite person on this forum. It seems like you're the only one responding to everyone's problems and questions. You're the man!
Thanks again.
Thanks for all the input Hailers, you're by far my favorite person on this forum. It seems like you're the only one responding to everyone's problems and questions. You're the man!
Thanks again.
03-10-09, 09:45 PM
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I went to walmart and got some wire and crimped a new connection in there. The rx7 is alive once again. It's kind of odd that a wire would go out, I guess the Mazda place in Atlanta that put the engine in did a shoddy job. Of course, it's been 4-5 years...
The clutch certainly feels better with the new master cylinder.
Thanks again for your help everyone, especially hailers.
The clutch certainly feels better with the new master cylinder.
Thanks again for your help everyone, especially hailers.
03-10-09, 11:42 PM
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did you check the little switch behind the clutch, looks like a little white button coming out of a box, before i did my kill switch mine bent to the side and no matter how far i jammed my clutch in my car wouldn't start. Can you get it started on a roll start?
NVM just saw you fixed the problem, where in atlanta are you?
NVM just saw you fixed the problem, where in atlanta are you?
03-26-09, 02:11 PM
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Hailers,
Ever since I got the car up and running again the cold start assist doesn't work anymore. It's not 100% nessesary but it's kind of nice because I didn't use to have to feather the gas to get it to start. Feathering scares me because of the flooding anyways.
It still goes to 1500-2000 until the engine is warmed up, but it won't do it until it's been feathered for a second. The 3000rpm 20 sum odd second warmup thing has disappeared.
Could this be another part of my electrical problems? Any ideas?
Ever since I got the car up and running again the cold start assist doesn't work anymore. It's not 100% nessesary but it's kind of nice because I didn't use to have to feather the gas to get it to start. Feathering scares me because of the flooding anyways.
It still goes to 1500-2000 until the engine is warmed up, but it won't do it until it's been feathered for a second. The 3000rpm 20 sum odd second warmup thing has disappeared.
Could this be another part of my electrical problems? Any ideas?
03-26-09, 09:35 PM
#22
im not sure myself might shoot hailers a pm jic.
btw sorry u didnt get any help in the new members section, def glad to hear ur cars back up and running. unless ur sure u can find the problem, id just wait for hailers, mans a freakin genius!!!
always been help for me!
btw sorry u didnt get any help in the new members section, def glad to hear ur cars back up and running. unless ur sure u can find the problem, id just wait for hailers, mans a freakin genius!!!
always been help for me!
03-27-09, 04:56 PM
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Oddly enough, it actually worked this morning for the first time in a couple of weeks. But this afternoon once again it didn't want to start easily. Strange.
07-28-09, 12:45 AM
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I ran into the same issue couple of weeks ago. The solenoid wire went out on my car without warning. I ended up adding a new wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid. Car starts fine, but my cold-assist doesn't come on either. Any ideas?
07-28-09, 05:38 PM
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I actually ended up just selling the car. Which SUCKS! It qualified for the cash for clunkers!
I'm fairly certain the wire splits somewhere in between, but I never took the time to figure it out. I sold it about a 2 weeks after I got it running again.
Look at the wiring diagrams the guy posted. It shows the wire splitting.
I'll ask the guy I sold it to if he ever managed to fix it and let you know.
I'm fairly certain the wire splits somewhere in between, but I never took the time to figure it out. I sold it about a 2 weeks after I got it running again.
Look at the wiring diagrams the guy posted. It shows the wire splitting.
I'll ask the guy I sold it to if he ever managed to fix it and let you know.