wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

i am modifying my s5 rails so that i can fun an aftermarket fpr and get rid of the pd. I chopped off the ends and bought some -6an weld in bungs. What is the appropriate method to join these? should i weld it or braze it? Thanks.

micah

I've never done it, but Aaron Cake suggested to me once that he brazes them in.

Welding might be a big tricky... brazing is much easier.

bluemunkey1820

i TIG mine on worked fine

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Either will work just fine, do whatever you're more comfortable with.

Just make sure in either case to pressure test them before you go slapping it back together. A simple cap/air blower test will work to indicate any pinholes or pores in the weld/brazing.

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

i havent done either. could i get things hot eneough with a mapp gas torch? so all i need to do is get everything really hot then introduce the brazing rod just like i was soldering copper pipes together rite? Do i need any special type of brazing rod?

thanks for all the great replies

micah

Just solder it.. yeah. a map gas/propane torch will work. Just like sweat fitting pipe probably. Just solder I would imagine.

fastrotaries

You can't tap and drill them in?

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

the metal is pretty thin. im not comfortable tapping it. i dont want it accidentally blowing out and burning my car up

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

It may just be the picture, but those bungs look like they are aluminum. If that's the case, you won't be able to braze them to the steel fuel rail. The melting temperature of aluminium is so low that by the time the steel is hot enough, the aluminum will be liquid.

If they are steel fittings, then you can weld or braze them. Best welding method would be gas or a TIG, but if you are careful with a MIG and run some thin wire then that can certainly be done. Flux core or stick will introduce too much splatter. For brazing, a pre-fluxed bronze rod designed to braze steel would be idea. File the flare fitting so that it fits tightly in the fuel rail and then do your brazing. That way the metal will be sucked into the space and form a solid connection. Brazing is really bad at filling gaps.

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

they are steel fittings, just a bit shinny

TitaniumTT

Please don't guess when a peoples lives/cars are at risk

Aarons got it, personally, I would TIG, but brazing will work fine too. Make sure you pressure test to x2 running PSI min.

micah

Actually, JERK, Aaron Cake is the one who related brazing AN fittings onto a fuel rail to sweat fitting water pipe.. He mentioned this in another thread of mine. Here's a quote from that thread:

SO.. bite me.

EDIT: Also... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazing

Soldering = Brazing

TitaniumTT

Brazing does not equal soldering.... but then again, it's on the internet so it must be true. By your own words he RELATED IT!!!!! NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!! Thanks for the name calling though, I appreciate it.

EDIT : so now I'm reacting to the name calling -
I read the wiki-pedia which can be about as accurate as a shotgun or worse sometimes & I never read the word solder. I also read Aarons post and aside from reading (paraphrasing here) - LIKE, as in SIMILAR to, or RESEMBLING, perhaps COMPARABLE with soldering a plumbing fitting, he never told anyone to solder a fuel rail. See where I'm going, Soldering does NOT equal brazing. Two totally seperate processes with multiple different metals and fluxes.

Sorry to say this again but you are wrong and that is viperdouchely dangerous

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

ok kinda dumb question. how do you plug up the injector bungs to pressure test it. i know im missing something really simple here....

micah

Brazing is joining two pieces of metal by melting an alloy which flows into the joint by capillary action. Soldering is EXACTLY the same. The only difference is the material..... so.. excuuuuse me if I used the wrong word.. Jesus christ on a pogo stick.

Also.. in my second reply, I don't recall using words like DEFINATELY, and ASBOLUTELY.. but I do remember using words like PROBABLY and "I WOULD IMAGINE".

TitaniumTT

Ok - I would imagine that if I heard solder it I would probably go to the store and buy solder. But if I heard brazing I would imagine I would probably ask what brazing is if I didn't know or go buy some brazing materials

I used the same words - All I'm saying is fuel tends to burn things and can explode so I would be very careful in the words you choose.

If it we me over there, I would man up and admit fault & apologize. It's not an eff'ing technicality here where you slipped up. You were wrong and had the ***** to call me a jerk.

Wackaloo - Aeroquip sells caps that seal. You can use a few of those and some other fittings to rig it directly to an air-compressor and keep turning up the regulator to the desired PSI - here's a link.... http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
You can crank down on those with the same torque that you can the fittings and get the same seal rated to the same pressure


& one more thing............ You can't use the words or phrases EXACTELY THE SAME EXCEPT FOR becuase by definition it is not exactely the same. Soldering does not equal brazing by your own admission becuase of the materials used, therefore soldering does not = brazing.

I've made my point, I'm done

micah

Naww, its aight man. I love a good argument.

I was wrong. period. JERK. Also, I have HUGE *****...

But, anybody in their right mind would get a second opinion before making major alterations on their fuel system. I mean.. "but then again, it's on the internet so it must be true." applies to everything on the internet. So.... If they took my advice straight up without any confirmation, they deserve the fate they get. Harsh, I know... but... true. Measure twice, cut once.

TitaniumTT

That's some funny ****... mad bad too.

I love that saying. I also prefer, "You really don't wanna be the guy coming back here saying, 'I don't get it?? I cut it twice and it's still too short.'"

micah

</argument> hehe.

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

i know about those for the -6an parts but what about the injector bungs. if i am to put any presssure in there i am going to need to make some sort of seal on them too.

TitaniumTT

injectors

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

doh! i knew it was something retarded. im an idiot lol.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Whoa...Hold on there. Regardless of what the great WikiPedia says (and my opinion of WikiPedia is lower then, well, just about anything...) soldering and brazing are two totally different processes.

From http://www.lucasmilhaupt.com/htmdocs...port/faqs.html :

What that means is that the filler material used for brazing is far stronger then the typical tin/lead/silver used for soldering and it has a higher final melting point. A properly done braze is as strong as a weld in most cases, while soldering is rarely suitable for structural support.

I'm going to tell you a secret that will get he crucified here: I've never pressure tested an assembly after I've welded or brazed it. If the fittings fit tightly in the first place, it's actually hard to create a leak when TIG welding or brazing. That's not to say that you shouldn't test of course...

Now, as for something that fits in an injector bung to allow a pressure test...Ah ha! How about a fuel injector? Use a clamp or strap of sheet metal to prevent it from shooting out.

The devil is in the details. Keep in mind that a lot of people have no clue about brazing and soldering (clear evidence would be in my buildup thread with the infamous copper heater pipes) and will make assumptions when the specifics are not supplied. Remember that at least one space shuttle blew up because of a mixup in metric vs. standard measurements.

micah

Yeah yeah yeah.. We all determined I'm a tool.. Can we move on?

Semantics... gawll..

Also.. I agree with your opinion on wikipedia. Which is why I don't use it as my only source. I confirm it with another site.. but wikipedia is usually easy to read and nicely formatted.. However, anybody can edit anything on wikipedia withOUT an account. Its the nature of a wiki. If you find something to be inaccurate, fix it!

NZConvertible

Actually it was the Mars Climate Orbiter mission that failed because of a mixup in metric vs. substandard measurements. Wikipedia told me so.