Mangahelic testing for the stock air box!!
well... i can't find the link but some one tested the flow and filtering of aftermarket filters. as i remember the hks was a "parts" filter. it only stops stuff big enough to have a part number. Apexi won on both parts.
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 25,896
Likes: 24
From: Rohnert Park CA
Originally posted by Mephis
why does everyone act like k&n is good, their filters arent worth a damn compaired to a good ole HKS mushroom.
why does everyone act like k&n is good, their filters arent worth a damn compaired to a good ole HKS mushroom.
Just say no to the green mushroom!
And:
Typical Foam/Mushroom Air Filter:
1. Lack of surface area hinders air flow and dirt holding capacity.
2. Open cell foam usually saturated with oil.
3. Dirt builds on outside and blocks the openings.
4. Higher vacuum pressures distort the cells drawing dirt deeper into the filter.
5. Airflow is reduced as cells become blocked.
6. Turbulent filtered air.
7. Usually clogged by 5-10K miles (depending on road conditions) requiring replacement.
8. same HP gain as the K&N cone filters
Last edited by Icemark; Dec 11, 2003 at 01:08 PM.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 29,798
Likes: 128
From: London, Ontario, Canada
Originally posted by Mephis
why does everyone act like k&n is good, their filters arent worth a damn compaired to a good ole HKS mushroom.
why does everyone act like k&n is good, their filters arent worth a damn compaired to a good ole HKS mushroom.
Problems reported with the HKS unit:
-poor filtering
-foam falls apart and is sucked in the engine
-oil quickly gets sucked out of the filter
Icemark has posted some more reasons, but I have personally observed the above. Foam filters suck. For years lawnmower manufacturers used them, and you could tell if you ever pulled the head off an old Briggs and Stratton. Now, with most using paper elements, the cylinder walls no longer look like they've been sandblasted...
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 1
From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by MrBob 86
10.5 inH2o is only .38 psi or .77 inHg
10.5 inH2o is only .38 psi or .77 inHg
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
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From: Laredo, Tx
Once I have that new FRAM in and I have a co-pilot to jot down the info I will come back to this thread. If the new filter doesn't improve the measurement then I think we can say that it wasn't clogged BUT it is a major part of the restriction. then we can go on to compare it to the OE and K&N filter.
Here are a few tests
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
*EDIT Damn I'm a few days late!
sorry
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
*EDIT Damn I'm a few days late!
sorry
vac leak
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,247
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From: Rutgers
why is it wrong to test with a old filter?.....i know u should use the data as a baseline test...but maybe u should...none of us drive daily with a "brand new" air filter anyway.....its just real life enviroment
MMR bitch
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 238
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From: Cookeville, TN
Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
yes that is about right. The point is to get as close to 0.00 inH2O as possible while keeping the thing reliable. Hopefully the CAI does this or atleasts starts it off.
yes that is about right. The point is to get as close to 0.00 inH2O as possible while keeping the thing reliable. Hopefully the CAI does this or atleasts starts it off.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
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From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by rxspeed87
can't wait to see the CAI testing
how long out do you think that would be?
just kind of curious what this home made PVC piping of mine might be doing compared to the stock unit
can't wait to see the CAI testing
how long out do you think that would be?
just kind of curious what this home made PVC piping of mine might be doing compared to the stock unit
Given I would like James to do the co-piloting for me it will be untill after hanuka. Since he is probalby going to visit his family durin that time. Unless I can get MAX to do it but he is busy right now.
If you want to know how your DIY cai does then just buy a guage like we did or make your own manometer. The guages cost ~55 bucks. BUT my cai is not made from PVC it is just stell tubing with mandrel bends and couplers at certain points like the AFM and TB elbow. I hope it does better.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 1
From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by MrBob 86
The AFM its self is a restriction of about 4inh2o (6 - 6.5 on a turbo) on a nonturbo when the AFM is about half open. No matter how free flowing the intake is up to the AFM, the AFM is still going to be the biggest restriction in the intake system. Maybe you should put your temp probe in the stock intake track and see if there is any difference in temperature...
The AFM its self is a restriction of about 4inh2o (6 - 6.5 on a turbo) on a nonturbo when the AFM is about half open. No matter how free flowing the intake is up to the AFM, the AFM is still going to be the biggest restriction in the intake system. Maybe you should put your temp probe in the stock intake track and see if there is any difference in temperature...
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
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From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by seveninphilly
Here are a few tests
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
*EDIT Damn I'm a few days late! sorry
Here are a few tests
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/
*EDIT Damn I'm a few days late!
sorry
My problem with that and comparing it to the APEXi is that they have no given part number for the K&N filter that I saw. Given that the APEXi filter is rather small that means that is must be really good filtering material but you can compensate for that by having a bigger amount of filter srface to catch more particles.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
Given I would like James to do the co-piloting for me it will be untill after hanuka. Since he is probalby going to visit his family durin that time. Unless I can get MAX to do it but he is busy right now.
If you want to know how your DIY cai does then just buy a guage like we did or make your own manometer. The guages cost ~55 bucks. BUT my cai is not made from PVC it is just stell tubing with mandrel bends and couplers at certain points like the AFM and TB elbow. I hope it does better.
Given I would like James to do the co-piloting for me it will be untill after hanuka. Since he is probalby going to visit his family durin that time. Unless I can get MAX to do it but he is busy right now.
If you want to know how your DIY cai does then just buy a guage like we did or make your own manometer. The guages cost ~55 bucks. BUT my cai is not made from PVC it is just stell tubing with mandrel bends and couplers at certain points like the AFM and TB elbow. I hope it does better.
I just used PVC cause it was cheap easy and well it is what I came into first
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
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From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by rxspeed87
where did you get the metal and how much did it cost?
I just used PVC cause it was cheap easy and well it is what I came into first
where did you get the metal and how much did it cost?
I just used PVC cause it was cheap easy and well it is what I came into first
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 1
From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by Rxmfn7
If you want to do another run with an OEM filter..I have one or 2 brane new ones laying around.. Gimme $5 and you can have 'em
If you want to do another run with an OEM filter..I have one or 2 brane new ones laying around.. Gimme $5 and you can have 'em
Older than Dirt
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,448
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From: Parts Unknown
Originally posted by 1987RX7guy
Actually this wasn't originally intended to display gains from the Stock setup to CAI. But that will be one benefit from these tests. I HAD a set date I was going to dyno my car but I have problems with it right now. But this isn't really affected by the problem so I posted this up.
This isn't the first set of tests for the CAI that I am going to be reporting. The first set was Temp readings. I personally know that the CAI works like majic specially after the car has been driven for over 10 min at which time the stock setup starts to heat up faster than the CAI. I didn't do the dyno tests yet for two reasons that are closely related. One I have the wrong gear set in my car currently. I have a 3.9 LSD in it because I need it it back on the road quickly and I don't know how to factor that into the dyno's calculations or if it will affect it. I do know that my speedo is off by a lot at high speeds. Second the hesitations would probably ruin the runs and would make it all just a big waste of money. Its ~100 bucks for the amount of runs that I want to do and that is a lot of money for a small timer like me to just throw away because of hessitations that can be fixed by finding the problem.
I agree that the mass of FC owners are not going to have a clue as to what 8.5" of water means to them in reality but I want to put ALL the numbers out there for people to see I am no affraid of the truth much like the bigger companies are. This type of measurement was suggested to me by NZconvertible and I thought it would be neat to see the change. I still don't know how much it will change when I do the CAI but I hope it is significant so that all my work isn't wasted.
Santiago
Actually this wasn't originally intended to display gains from the Stock setup to CAI. But that will be one benefit from these tests. I HAD a set date I was going to dyno my car but I have problems with it right now. But this isn't really affected by the problem so I posted this up.
This isn't the first set of tests for the CAI that I am going to be reporting. The first set was Temp readings. I personally know that the CAI works like majic specially after the car has been driven for over 10 min at which time the stock setup starts to heat up faster than the CAI. I didn't do the dyno tests yet for two reasons that are closely related. One I have the wrong gear set in my car currently. I have a 3.9 LSD in it because I need it it back on the road quickly and I don't know how to factor that into the dyno's calculations or if it will affect it. I do know that my speedo is off by a lot at high speeds. Second the hesitations would probably ruin the runs and would make it all just a big waste of money. Its ~100 bucks for the amount of runs that I want to do and that is a lot of money for a small timer like me to just throw away because of hessitations that can be fixed by finding the problem.
I agree that the mass of FC owners are not going to have a clue as to what 8.5" of water means to them in reality but I want to put ALL the numbers out there for people to see I am no affraid of the truth much like the bigger companies are. This type of measurement was suggested to me by NZconvertible and I thought it would be neat to see the change. I still don't know how much it will change when I do the CAI but I hope it is significant so that all my work isn't wasted.
Santiago
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,752
Likes: 1
From: Laredo, Tx
Originally posted by theloudroom
Santiago
These threads are great. There's way to much unsupported BS that flys around in the car world. It's nice to see someone making an effort test their theories.
Santiago
These threads are great. There's way to much unsupported BS that flys around in the car world. It's nice to see someone making an effort test their theories.
Mr. Gadget- Not a problem I was happy to answer.
Santiago
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