aznpoopy

do you have them on a fc or a s chassis?

TitaniumTT

Yeah - it's called cut down on R&D, quality control, materials, etc etc etc. By him saying his product is as great as everyone elses yet cheaper because this is only his hobby and he's not out to make a profit is him portraying him as something I believe he's not.

90% or more of you aren't getting the point I'm trying to make so I give up.

CJ - Oh nooooessss!!! I have a life and don't spend everywaking minute working on my car so I can drive it. For shame on me....

unicorn_squad

you don't have a point. you say MAX suck because they're cheap, and then buy stance....



so you're saying your life consists of posting on the internet?
if you worked on your car as much as you talk **** on the internet, it'd probably be done by now.

TitaniumTT

I do have a point, you're just too short sighted to realize it. Even if you did, you and your other Colorado buddy would just sit back and talk trash over the internet becuase I'm not done with my car yet. Regardless of how well it's put together, how many custom parts there are on it, how much $$ is invested or anything else for that matter. Apparently, unless you have a running car, regardless of what a piece it is, you get bitched at. I'd rather take my time and build it right once, than slap some piece of **** together in a weekend just so I can be as cool as you think you are. Do you own a home sitting on a wooded acre? Do you have ownership in a firm? I doubt it, therefore you have no idea how time consuming either are.

Show me where I said Max sucks, I never did. Nor did I say buy Stance - I said I did. My point was he is trying to portray himself as the only good semaritan out there by marketing his product as being cheaper than everybody elses becuase this is his hobby and his way of giving back to the community. I think that's a bullshit line aimed at people who don't know better. I'd really like to see the COST for these units. Then I'll take back every word I said and apologize. Until then I think it's horrible marketing

DC Dan at MAX USA

USS CJ -
I think the posts are actually too serious. Thats OK just gets even funnier.
I'm sure he is a reasonable guy in person, he just plays a jackass on the net.
It reminds me of the mentality I would see at the illegal drag races back in highschool. You were just as likely to see a fist fight as you were the cops.

I sure am not used to that mentality though, most people seem to really dig how we do things differently. I was just talking to a friend of mine who moderates roadsterdrift.com - they had to break away from miata.net because the old scca cats just werent getting the new trend and too many insults flew back and fourth.
Hopefully RX7 owners are open and mature enough to play together on this forum.

Back on topic, Thanks for posting your first hand experience with KTS.
I have no experience with KTS but I notice just by looking at the pics KTS lacks a rear spring upper perch like MAX which is used to seperate the spring's load and the pillowball's motion.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

Ive heard nothing but positive feedback on KTS units.. better supplied in teh US through SPLparts and they are a great company to deal with.. I woulda went that route on my old s13 but got Tein HE instead at that time.

Shock /spring combos are just weak!! sorry i had to say it... but some people just like to be more extreme then the typical "oh no coiloverrs are track only!!" Fully adjustible coilovers not only allow ride hieght, but damper adjustmentts, and camber adjustments via adjustible pillow ball top mounts. Ever lift up a car with coilovers? the suspension does not uncompress.

unicorn_squad

actually they do have the upper perch. maybe not for S chassis (I dunno about those cars). but for FC's they do.

with that said, I have KTS on my car and love them. although I have heard of some people have trouble with them.
I have not heard a single bad thing about MAX coilovers, and they look awesome. will probably try them if I buy another set of coilovers any time soon (but with softer springs... lol).

TitaniumTT

Other things take precedence over the car and take time away from it. It has NOTHING to do with my opinion, just my lack of time.

I never said anything about Max, KTS or any other product or drifting so don't start that. My ONLY point through this entire thread was, "Gee Max, that sounds an aweful lot like a real bullshit line that you use to justify your low prices to people who won't think beyond what you tell them or show them." Much like the, "look @ us on Youtube," comment. He has not responded directly to any of my questions which just makes me think, think and generate an opinion, that his products are cheaper becuase they cost less to build. I feel that is a safe assumption especially since he has ignored everything that I've asked.

dial8

iTrader: (4)

You said
Then

and finally

Hmmm. I think the third quote should refer back to the second. Your car's not moving, so you can't do any of those things you just said.

Uh, no. The words "Race" and "Stance" don't belong in the same sentence. Stance is popular because its cheap, and cheap because its popular. It does the exact SAME thing the MAX coil overs do, its, just more obnoxious. You like stance roll them. You don't like MAX, fine. You think Stance COs with "corner weights" fancy pencils, and extra gauges in your car is going to make you fast? Guess again Junior. Right now I don't know whether to be pissed or just laugh at how stupid you are.

Here you're just full of ****. My car doesn't run, hasn't since I bought it. No one says anything to me. Well put together? You roll stance...Cheap is not well put together. Well put together is building around an ideal and meeting class rules. Well put together is the unpopular option, the harder earned option, and mostly NOT the way you are doing things. Stance? You got me now I'm ******' dying here. Why don't you call up Zeal and tell them Stance is better. Then call up Ohlins.

Go home.

MAX COs are okay, leave them alone.
No I don't use them, No I don't plan to.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'M GOING TO GET STANCE FOR THE SAME DAMN PRICE AND SAY THEY'RE BETTER BECAUSE THEY'RE POPULAR, AND COOL, AND SHINEY, AND AWESOME, ANDNANDNANDNANDNANDNANDNANDNANDNAND........


You're such a ******' dumbass.

dial8

iTrader: (4)

BTW Dan...you're the Man!

TitaniumTT

Yeah, I'm the dumbass.... & junior!!! HAAHAHA - let me tell you a little secret.... Before you go calling people names, realize the caliber or person you are insulting. Boy, I bought my FC before you were out of grade school so seriously - STFU.

You are the reason that so much ******* misinformation gets spread around. He's posting about the EXACT same budget C/O that I just bought. I was hoping that you would have the intellegence to realize that I wasn't criticising the product but the fact that he's saying they're so great when he hasn't aligned them, weighted them, or dialed them in. How in the name of all that is holly can someone speak intellegently about a product without using it? That would be like you raving about the ***** you just bought while it's still in the wrapper.

So many times people rave about their parts because they are thier parts and they bought them. Who wants to admit they made a bad decision? SO of course everyone is going to have the best parts. My point is, consider where the OPINION is coming from. Just about every question that can be asked regarding suspension is subjective. I'd imagine some people actually think you're a decent person. I think you're an idiot who can't only not read between the lines, but wouldn't realize a point if I tatooed the punchline to the back of your hairy hand.

You'll note that never once did I say anything good or bad about any product other than the fact that Stance has some decent race history. Race history = R&D. I never said anything about shiny or popular so again, STFU you stupid little brat.

So tell me son, if actually setting a car up doesn't make one fast, would you like to tell me what does? Do ohlins make you fast? What about Zeal or Penske. Do you honestly think that slapping on more expensive parts makes you faster? If that's the case than I outta have about 7x the HP as anyone running a haltech or a microtech. & you're calling me a dumbass?

TitaniumTT

This is great..... I'm cheap - on that stainless steel workbench that I built lies electronics that are worth more than your life. Should I go out and write a $7,000 check for springs and shocks? Would I be able to tell the difference between a $7,000 suspension and a $1,200 one? Probably not. Will it make a **** of difference in auto-x or the occasional track day? Probably not. So why not spend $$ where it can be benefited - like AIM dashes, or Exedy twin disc clutches, or any number of parts that you probably couldn't afford. I've outgrown 3 other non C/O setups, time to buy something where I can change spring rates and get things revalved - My choice seemed like the best for me. How easy is it to chage spring rates with Zeals or get them re-valved? You have no idea what I based my decision on so once again - STFU.
Before you start talking trash about people, figure out who you're talking about. You have no idea how much I've built, how many one off pieces I have on my car, or what goes on in my shop. You're an idiot for assuming otherwise. You're a moron for thinking that I've never driven that car. I've owned it for 11 years. CJ's been giving me **** for taking 11 months to swap in an RE.
<edited by moderators>

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

CANNON PLUGS! Could you please send me some details on where you picked those up? I've been eyeballin' Mil-C-38999 spec, but I can't find any place that would cater to the general public.

Sideview_S13

You speak on the koni/ground control setup like its bread and butter. Obviously you aren't looking at the 86xx series especially the 8610 or 8611 if you going to spend more then 1500. Tein Super Drifts are an awesome coilover just like the Max ones. The Tein SDs are only super stiff when turned to full stiff, even then you rarely need it that harsh. Unless you can disassemble and revalve your own shocks for your applicaton, koni/spring combo is not the business...........plain and simple.

BTW Zeal customer service/support is top notch. they are an awesome company with awesome product. however you pay for it. Max is giving you a break. Go with Max or stance. if you can find them tanabes.

aznpoopy

koni / gcs are a great setup. the biggest downside is the lack of dual height adjustment

that's important to some ppl and not so important to others, depending on how long you want to go

i'm not sure what you mean by this.

from what i've read koni's are not user serviceable

if you are talking about the insert installation, it's definitely harder than a bolt in coilover, but it's not that bad.

TitaniumTT

Try Connectech or Waytek Wire. Some places won't sell to the public but if you're nice and say please, they will generally make an exception.

Black91n/a

Riiiiiiight, because it has reasonable spring rates it's automatically "comfort oriented"? Come on, it's nearly 3x stiffer than stock out of the box and is one of the only coilovers for sale that's not rediculously over stiff for use with street tires. Most of the coilovers out there will need at minimum a 225 race tire to have any advantage over a softer setup. Softer springs not only allow for a more comfortable ride, but it is much better at keeping the tires on the ground over rough roads. So unless you have perfectly smooth pavement you'll probably have more grip on a softer setup. I've got 7/5 springs on my Flex's and at the track with some 225 wide race tires there was hardly any body roll and it handled very nicely. There's definetely no need to go stiffer at this point for me, it'd probably slow me down.

The best grip setup will be had with using as soft a spring as you can get away with while being able to maintain reasonable dynamic alignment.

STIFFER DOES NOT EQUAL BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't take anyone seriously that says that corner weighting, alignment, tire temps and so on aren't important, that shows a profound ignorance about suspensions and performance in general, so the rest of what's said will be pretty much worthless.

Next to tires, dampers (shocks) are the most important element to going fast, so it's worth getting the best ones possible, and even reasonably untalented drivers can feel the difference between good and mediocre.

Also, try to ignore the whole twin tube and mono tube thing, it's no indication of the quality of the damping, it's more important that it's done well than what style is chosen.

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

This might bleed off into another thread, but I'm curious on what exactly is the difference between mono and twin? As far as I can tell they do the same exact thing.

Icemark

Thread edited for flaming, watch it guys and girls.

As far as promoting product, advertising can be purchased very cheaply. It should not be promoted in threads.

Valkyrie

I concur...you ideally want to go as soft as possible, but stiff enough to get rid of body roll (since ARBs are basically a bandaid fix). You also have to stiffen the springs if you have have very low ground clearance, because you'll bottom out like crazy if you don't. And there's also the increased response you get from a stiffened suspension and chassis.

On the other hand, I once had the announcer at an autocross say "I've never seen that much body roll from a second-gen RX-7 before," so the stock springs and shocks might be excessively soft for performance driving... (obviously they are)

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

I wonder how long before the thread gets locked...

enj01

Man i started this thread just to get informantion on 2 sets of coilovers and now everyone is fighting?

Yes i did order MAX and they should here tomarrow if ups doesn't loose the package and ill be happy to share some pictures(ok phone quality ones) and info to stop some of the bs coments being left about these products.

But to tell you the truth if you had thought these products were seriously cheap quality i dont think you would have ever came to this thread... yet alone post stupid comments.

unicorn_squad

if this thread gets locked, please post a new thread about them when they get here. it would be greatly appreciated.

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

The point that everyone is missing is this: They are asking for specific information and reviews from use in professional circuits. They're not saying that they'll break right out of the box or that they're cheaply manufactured. They're main "problems" are:

1. Spring rate are way too high for the average person.
2. Impressions of newly installed products will always be higher than time down the line.

Since you bought some, give you impression of them after riding around on them for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, and finally a year. Are the rates good for you? Then great! If your kidneys hurt and you avoid riding in your car, or other people avoid riding in your car you may have too stiff a suspension. But then again everyone is going for a different setup.

For me the spring rates I have are probably too soft but i'm not afraid of swapping out one pair and moving up a notch. There is also other factors to consider.

1. Budget: not everyone can afford Stance, Tein, etc. Go with what you can afford, but make sure you don't spend less up front and more swapping it to something else down the line, read me?
2. Extra features: Revalving, warrenty, addon/accessories, etc.
3. Customer Service: How is dealing with them? Do they charge you under warrenty?
4. Ride quality: Noise, stiffness, tire wear, etc.

For me I was going for a specific application and the only thing that met what I was looking for was Tein. Am I going to be driving only hard on this set up? I doubt it. I've aimed to make it comfortable on the street and still be able to stand up to the rigors of my kind of racing and control.

The reason I went with those instead of another brand is because I listened to the opinion of others and weighed what I read with others. I know many people running co's from Tein for more than 4 years and they have nothing but good things to say about them. To me that's a testament to the products they offer as well as customer support.

If MAX co's do the same, then they'll develop quite the nitche in the market. If they provide a means where individuals can pick and choose individual spring rates for the dampers or have a means to upgrade the springs, great, even better. But knocking other peoples opinions who have been around and developed certain criteria for making a good product good in their book isn't the best way to spread positive feedback about a specific product.

But any how, that's just my two cents. I'll commence to put on my flame suit now.

TitaniumTT

AHHAHAAA - you complete tool - If you're going to pick apart my spelling and grammar, I suggest that you make DAMN sure yours is top notch. Otherwise it makes you look like a complete waste of what could have been a decent stain on a back seat.

A) Who says I'm building anything for any particular class besides some weekend run-what-you-brung auto-x where an AIM dash is perfectly acceptable – moot point.
B) This is ******* internet gold –
Then you go on to completely contradict yourself here
uh huh so is it the R&D and the product or the driver? Care to explain? Actually – nevermind; you’re <- there it is again! not worth much more of my time.

C) Again – you have no idea what I’m building my car for so you cannot speak intelligently regardless. All you are doing is spreading “retard” on the internet. How many people drive an ACT puck clutch on the street and actually enjoy it? I dare say that anyone who has driven a puck and given the choice between that and a sprung twin disc would MUCH rather drive the sprung twin. Wait a sec…. I am that person. So that extra $300 that I spent on the Exedy twin disc…… where should I have put that? Into some better coils? We’ve covered this already – but I’ll say it again one more time for the slow folk – would spending an additional $6 or $7 or $8,000 on suspension make a ******* **** of difference on an auto-x/commuter? NO A track car? YES! Is this a dedicated track car? NO. You have no argument so STFU!!! I never said Stance was the end all be all - they are far from it just like Max. I had a problem with Max saying that he is the only good semaritan in a sea of profit hungry companies looking to gouge to poor enthusiast

Oh and junior….. having acess to three different shops isn’t the same as actually owning all of the equipment. All you are is a young & immature little daddy’s boy that gets to play with other peoples tools – nothing more.