salex

92 Vert that I brought back to life after about 10 years of sitting under a cover on the side of the house. Some old posts go into the problems I had, and there were not many. After a new gas tank, bypassing the start cut relay, a new body cpu and a few other clean ups, I got it on the road and it seemed to be running pretty good.

Drove it a couple times a week for a few months and put about 1000 miles on it. All was fine until my son was visiting a we went for a spin. The power steering computer started giving me the 5 beeps. It had done that a few time, at first, but then stopped. I figured just 10 years of corrosion. This time it didn't stop. Drove it a few miles with the beeping and then parked it. Went out a few days latter and it was still beeping setting still and not running - didn't want to mess with it and looked up causes. Never had the steering wheel off, but I was going to do more checking before I attempted that.

About a week latter I tried it again and no beep, but then it would not start. It just spins with no detection of ignition. I figured it might have gone into limp mode and disconnected the battery. Same thing - no audible sign of ignition. Not so fast that there is no compression (have not checked that). No warning lights or any other strange beeps. Even though it has been about a month since I parked it, it was running fine, except for the power steering beeps.

Nothing sounds connected, but before I start searching, I was just wonder if anyone had a gut feeling where to start.

Steve

2slow4stock

iTrader: (18)

So your telling me the car doesnt crank? Try jumping power on the starter itself, if it turns over its something electrical.

salex

Sorry, Guess I was not clear. It cranks, it just does not fire off or attempt to fire off. I'd guess no spark, but not have checked that. The crank seems to be a little bit of a weird sound.

I didn't have a check engine light, or any codes if I used the right procedure. I guess I just lost the ignition electrical. Not sure where to start looking, but I'll start.

texFCturboII

iTrader: (17)

Check spark, and try to deflood it.

barkz

iTrader: (1)

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Ryuske

I would definitely check for spark, and do the deflood procedure (like texFCturboII said). The deflood process is super easy.

gerald m

A simple way to check for spark is to hook up a conventional timing light to each spark plug separately just check them all one at a time. This procedure keeps the spark contained so you don't need to worry about jumping spark . ( NO shock this way ) Gerald m.

salex

Thanks for the suggestions.

Not sure how it could have flooded, but I first tried the easy de-flood procedure (remove EGI fuse, pedal to the metal and crank. Fuse back in and try again. No luck.

Took out a plug, and while I could not find my timing light, which I think I had one at one time, I did it the old fashioned way. I wrapping wire around the plug base and grounded it at hit the starter - peeking under the hood.

No Spark! Mind going into convolutions trying to find out what to do next when I realized I had pulled the EGI fuse out again. Put it back in and there was Spark.

I did notice that the plugs looked a little wet so I took the rest out. Didn't see any large amounts in the plug hole after a little crank, but I did the long de-flood procedure. Even went an got a new set of plugs.

All for naught, still no fire. Took plug back out and no fuel, just a little oil from the little I put in. I listened for the fuel pump and could not hear it, didn't see any blown fuses. By this time it was getting too dark to mess with it so I'll continue a fuel pump diagnostics tomorrow.

One bad news side, I found my 30 year old Sears tune-up kit with a compression gage (looking for the timing light!). One rotor only registered about 40PSI on a compression test. Check the other tomorrow.

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

Jumper the fuel pump just to make sure it is running. You are saying you don't hear it...

clokker

iTrader: (2)

NA pumps are pretty quiet.

gerald m

If you hear the pump running you might want to remove the fuel feed line at engine and check for flow . wouldn't surprise me if you have clogged filters or pickup sock in tank plugged but first check what beefhole suggests. Get someone to listen at the rear and see if you can hear the pump when you jump it . I don't like the **** but you could always try a shot of starting fluid at least you will know if it will fire .

salex

Tried the starter fluid in the air intake, not even a puff.

Disconnected the fuel line from the fuel filter to the intake (or where it goes). Though the pump came on with just the key on - it didn't, but shot out a soon as I turned it to on.

Guess I'm back to checking the other plugs and then confirming my compression gauge is working.

How can it loose an apex seal just sitting in the carport? It was running fine (actually super) when I last drove it. Almost seems like something electric, something cut out of the circuit. Like I mentioned, I bypassed the start cut relay when I had a bad body cpu that must of been sending a false theft alarm. But if I remember, that just cut out the starter.

Back to checking to book.

Again thanks for the help - any is appreciated.

major rotor

What was the other rotors compression? U said you'd check it today.

salex

I got tied up yesterday, maybe just fearing the worst case.

I got to it this morning- I have zero compression on the front rotar. Don't even hear much of a sucking sound as I did with the real rotar with just the plug out.

I guess that means a rebuild. I'll double check if I can find the guy in Gadsden who is a former rotary mechanic, but it look like bad news.

I have not done a major overall since my VW days about 30 years ago and a VW is just a tad simpler.

How difficult is it to replace the Apex seals, if that is the problem?

gerald m

I would think that you have some kind of nasty going on in there might just be seals stuck . From what I have gathered the rotary is a tedious job . ( mostly the cleaning and fitting of pieces ) but very doable for people with handy and understanding hands . First is to see what is going on in there . lots of build videos available to watch . get a fsm and do some reading . If you could rebuild a VW and have good results you should be able to do a rotary . Just waiting for parts for my first build . looking forward to it . Gerald m.

scrapp

iTrader: (1)

maybe it is stuck (Apex seal)... Have you considered the ATF trick?
*IF* that is the problem, it usually works, but some say its also not the best for the motor. Thats if you do it constantly.

(spoonful of ATF fluid in each housing/each rotor side, usually from top plugs (hand crank to move the rotors) let it sit over night, come back and hand crank some more, take the bottom plugs out and try to push out excess fluid, try to start it... prepare for smoke. LOTS of smoke. (Someone might call the fire dept.) Oh. and use the old plugs for this trick. If it starts, let it idle, go drive it a bit, let the smoke clear... put in new plugs.)

salex

Back in December, it was getting cold and decided to wait until spring to renew my attempts of bringing it back to life.

With no compression in the front rotor, I figured I would have to do a rebuild.

I tried the ATF trick. Waited one day, one week and nothing. Did get what appeared to be one rotor trying to fire, but no smoke, no nothing. I just put it to bed for a few months.

After a trip in April, the 7's carport partner had a dead battery so I charged it and figured I might as well do the RX7's also. Told my neighbor, who had helped me with the tests, "Maybe it magically fixed itself!". A day or two later I decided to try to start it again.

To my surprise, it grunted and groaned and then started. Smoke everywhere, but started and seemed to run fine. I only took it for a ride down the block, and then a days later, a few miles. I have not tested the compression yet, but it appears that I did have a stuck apex seal.

My dilemma is: Will it do it again? Will the seal break the next time and ruin the engine? Should I still consider a rebuild?

Steve

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you can try a decarb on the engine but if it stuck a seal after sitting for only a week then it is a sign that the engine is producing more carbon than it is emitting from the engine in short order. meaning usually this scenario is a recurring one and it could cause the engine to prematurely fail and be more costly to rebuild.

i would probably suggest having it rebuilt in the near future even if you can limp it along for the short term.

salex

The car seemed to be running fine, so I've been taking it out once a week or so. Figured I need a rebuild, but maybe not ready to try it yet.

About a month ago I went somewhere and it didn't want to start. I now guessed it was trying to flood again. Mashed the peddle all the way and it cranked a little and started.

More evidence of problems with the apex seals I guess.

Tried a few more runs and no problem, but leery of flooding. One day I stopped at a store and parked on a little slope. I've never been one for parking brakes, but it would not stay on the small incline in first gear. Had to put the brake on.

I can't remember if 7's compression will hold on an incline. I lived in a pretty flat area when I drove it daily, just can't remember.

Two short questions.

Is the not staying on a hill in gear just another sign that I have major problems?

I think I know the answer to that question so the second one is any suggestions where I can send the engine/block to get a good rebuild and a reasonable price?

I've in no hurry, it's only been sitting for most of the last 13 years.