yea this going to be my route(supercharging), so i'll be interested to see your method

 

LOL! I saw the gears turning in your head that afternoon and for some reason I knew you were going for it… keep us posted.

I'm planning on using the M90 just because of availability. They are so cheap to find, rebuild, and maintain. Plus the M90 can be ported to flow (and improved to spin) well beyond stock specs. I believe 10-11 lbs of boost is available from the M90 on a 13B. Spend some time on the T-bird Super Coupe forums for all kinds of info on the Eaton Blowers...

I've also noticed a clearance issue with the T-Bird bypass. I don't think it's going to fit so I'm already planning on using another bypass valve. The stock T-II should work fine. Are you planning on using the Mazda throttle body or switching to the T-Bird TB? If I can get the TPS to work, I might just use the T-Bird one.

As for ease of routing IC pipes? You are not going to believe the "epiphany" I had! I’ll have more details in a couple of weeks when I put theory into practice.

What IC are you using?

 

I'm using a greddy v-spec FMIC, basically where I'm putting the eaton is perfect for it. The m90 will move enough air to make upwards of 16psi around 13krpm on our engines, depending upon VE this could be higher, but it'll move enough CFM for 16psi at anywhere over 80% VE. Yes, I was quite seriously debating it at rotorfest, once i saw that relocated ALT and the clear top of the engine on the one car, i just knew it was the perfect spot for it. I've only done some rough test-fitting until later this month when I actually install it (this is my daily driver at the moment in NY), but it appears I might be able to clear everything even with the stock bypass, but we'll see. I'm going to adapt the RX7 TB for the SC intake, if it's possible. I've got a SC TB as well that I might play with if I fail at the rx7 TB, but we'll see. I'm probably going to start with the m90, and if it doesn't net me the results I'm aiming for, swap it out for the m112.

 

Ha ha, u guys are funny. Planning supercharger swaps with the M90, lol. Why not turbo? it's better, right? More power potential! The most efficient overall way to get boost . . .

Don't laugh, that's what everyone always says in defense of turbo.

As for swapping up to an M112, you could do that . . . If I ever get tired of a certain M90 in my future, it will be replaced with something along the lines of a whipple 1.6l/rev twinscrew compressor.

 

I've already got two turbo vehicles. A street ported '89 TII, and a 6port with a s5 turbo, I might as well go different. And the m90 will be sufficient for what I'm aiming for, and if not, the m112 certainly will. Thank god i've got them both.

 

when are you you people starting these projects? i'd like to see some pics/etc.

 

I agree with the post above. I demand pictures. A picture is worth 1000 words. PIXiZZLE!!!!!

 

pics would be great thank you.

 

I'll start a thread with some pix when I get my hands on a blower. Stop bidding the damn things up so high on ebay, fools! Before a certain zbrown came along, they were worth $150 in good shape . . now they are about a hundred bux more expensive. A lot of people are stocking up on M90's now.

 

Indeed, I got both the 112 and 90 for pretty damn cheap, so I can't complain. Under $300 for both.

 

Sonic, what kind of RPM are you planning on spinning that M90 to? And what is it off of? The Supercoupe ones were rather ineffecient compared to the GTP ones (and the newest Gen V M90s off the newest GTPs are even better). Above 11,500 RPM the heat/boost from the S/C really drops off quickly, which is why we GTP guys intercool them. An air/air doesn't suit itself very well to I/C on a roots blower, an air/water would work a lot better, and fits easier (I have one on my GTP)... also, if you can use the belts, there are some nice 6/8 rib pulley systems for the m90, that are modular, so you can change boost levels easily (sorry if you know this)

As far as efficiency, at best the M90 dips into the mid-upper 60s for the older ones (T-Bird) the later models (GTP) hit 70s, and the latest (Gen V) hit like 75 or so. Still pretty weak, and these are PEAK efficiencys, if you're pushing more then 11-12K RPM, you'll drop DRASTICALLY (think <50% adiabatic).. M112 would help this fact, and there are hybrid setups available now (though a straight M112, especially S Port, is still better). A whipple is a whole different world, efficiencys that can exceed turbos, and instantenous boost. Any lysholm blower is an excellent choice, with the 1.6L likely being a good match to a mild-moderate rotary, and a 2.3L being able to really feed a crazy (500 hp +) setup... I'd think they'd be well suited to help minimize the rotary's weak lower RPM torque, without having to overspin to hit peak power RPM.

If you guys have any M90/Roots questions, feel free to hit me up on PM or whatnot, I've been working with them on the GTPs for a while, I've got one pushing in the 400+ HP range, with the stock M90 on it (intercooled).

Sorry if this is stuff you guys know, just thought it might be useful.

 

Doh, that was a waste. Thought you were talking about volumetric.

 

I wonder if Zbrown will ever post again ???????? haha

 

I got the message in my email... I was gonna say, if you're talking about adiabatic, I want the roots that hits 90% !!!!!!! LOL. Keep your adiabatic in mind, as your heat/boost ratio will KILL you in detonation at high boost. Think 260*+ outlet air temperatures at 15 lbs of boost.

 

Yeah, i've been awake just a bit too long. That was all VE. The local company that did the porting had a v6 that was getting a similar setup, their aim was to push about 650cfm through it efficiently. They were seeing around 11-12psi with about 270F outlet temps on the SC, and after the IC they were down around 150F. This is what scared me the most about the roots setup was the damn heat and the issues with flow off the back of the blades under higher pressure, as they tend to just spin and create heat rather than actually flowing air. I've got no experience as I said previously, so I've pretty much been taking their word for it, and I was there when they were running their 's ported' m90 on the v6 engine (2.5l or similar size). I know that actual pressure doesn't mean much of **** performance wise, which is why i wanted to keep an eye on the temps to make sure it wasn't excess pressure from heating, but it stayed relatively even at about 150-160F on the intake temps (After SC) at around 12psi, and we only had a tiny house fan to blow air over the IC at the time. I really want to hit about 300 with this setup, and would be perfectly happy doing so. If I can keep my temps down and hang around 10-11 psi I should be awfully close, but it's hard to be certain without actually doing it. My biggest concern is how many CFM i will actually be pushing, and what the reluctant temp/pressure will be as the result

 

Sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on the setup. I'll be interested to see how it comes together.

Good luck.

 

i was thinking of doing the conversion myself to my s4 na, with the sc14 (toyota).
Someone in Aus has already done it, and im probably going to by the kit off them so all i have to do is bolt it on, except they bought it and removed it straight away, so I know nothing about how it will effect performance..

can anyone help me out?
i just basically want an increase in low down torque so its more driveable.
i doubt it will end up running lean, as my car runs unbelievably rich as it is.

what ever happened to gold87na's car?

ive read all the other threads about supercharging, and no one else has seemed to use this SC.



sorry about bringing back an ancient thread!!


thanks heaps