I've solves the 2nd Gen sticky starter mystery
04-10-10, 04:22 PM
#51
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That switch has nothing to do with the start circuit.
The interlock switch is on the top area of the pedal and has two large wires going to it. B/R and B/G. Actually the switch is not mounted on the pedal but fwd of the pedal and when you push the pedal in, the plunger of the switch hits against the clutch pedal and that's what makes the switch *make*.
NOT all RX have an interlock switch. I've 86 and turbo 87 that don't have one but do have a 87 na that has it.
IF the blue jumper is pulled off and set to the side, then if you get a piece of wire bare at each end and stuff one end into the socket where the BLACK/WHITE wire is and then touch the other end of the new wire to the batt positive post, the starter will spin. IF it does spin each and every time you do this, then it indicates to me the click, click, click problem is a lack of current going to the starter solenoid from the igition switch for one reason or the other.
To overcome this: you can buy a automobile relay. The negative side of that relays coil will need a wire to ground permanently. The positive side of that relays coil will go to the BLACK/GREEN wire in the plug you pulled the blue jumper off of.
So now the new relay will pull in each time you go to start. So all that is left is to run a wire from one side of the contacts of the new relay to the BLACK/WHITE wire in the elec plug where the blue jumper was............and the other contact of the new relay will go to the engine bay fuse box for a source of power. Hopefully a inline fuse will be used here to protect something or other..
That's what Hozzman did more or less.
The interlock switch is on the top area of the pedal and has two large wires going to it. B/R and B/G. Actually the switch is not mounted on the pedal but fwd of the pedal and when you push the pedal in, the plunger of the switch hits against the clutch pedal and that's what makes the switch *make*.
NOT all RX have an interlock switch. I've 86 and turbo 87 that don't have one but do have a 87 na that has it.
IF the blue jumper is pulled off and set to the side, then if you get a piece of wire bare at each end and stuff one end into the socket where the BLACK/WHITE wire is and then touch the other end of the new wire to the batt positive post, the starter will spin. IF it does spin each and every time you do this, then it indicates to me the click, click, click problem is a lack of current going to the starter solenoid from the igition switch for one reason or the other.
To overcome this: you can buy a automobile relay. The negative side of that relays coil will need a wire to ground permanently. The positive side of that relays coil will go to the BLACK/GREEN wire in the plug you pulled the blue jumper off of.
So now the new relay will pull in each time you go to start. So all that is left is to run a wire from one side of the contacts of the new relay to the BLACK/WHITE wire in the elec plug where the blue jumper was............and the other contact of the new relay will go to the engine bay fuse box for a source of power. Hopefully a inline fuse will be used here to protect something or other..
That's what Hozzman did more or less.
when i touch the wire to the battery i hear a click but thats about it, if that helps
04-10-10, 04:32 PM
#52
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Could be the starter/solenoid. The large black/white wire goes almost directly to the starter solenoids small blade or trigger. There is one other plug b/t where the blue connector goes on the harness and the starter solenoid.
I'd put the car in neutral and get under the car with a screwdriver. Bridge the gap b/t the small blade on the starter solenoid and the large cable on the starter. When you do that the starter should turn. IF the solenoid just makes a click........not good. Make sure the large cable on the solenoid is snugged down and if it is....sounds like a bad starter. At this time you have not much to lose. Get a hammer. Smack the side of the starter with the hammer a couple of times, but not so hard as to dent the case. Then try bridging the gap b/t the small blade of the solenoid and the large cable on the solenoid. IF the starter now spins.........I'm guessing the brushes inside the starter are too worn and need replacement. I've done this in the past and indeed the brushes were worn to the nub and a smack with the hammer *adjusted the brushes* enough for the starter to work a few times. Crude but worked for me in the past
I'd put the car in neutral and get under the car with a screwdriver. Bridge the gap b/t the small blade on the starter solenoid and the large cable on the starter. When you do that the starter should turn. IF the solenoid just makes a click........not good. Make sure the large cable on the solenoid is snugged down and if it is....sounds like a bad starter. At this time you have not much to lose. Get a hammer. Smack the side of the starter with the hammer a couple of times, but not so hard as to dent the case. Then try bridging the gap b/t the small blade of the solenoid and the large cable on the solenoid. IF the starter now spins.........I'm guessing the brushes inside the starter are too worn and need replacement. I've done this in the past and indeed the brushes were worn to the nub and a smack with the hammer *adjusted the brushes* enough for the starter to work a few times. Crude but worked for me in the past
04-11-10, 01:47 PM
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lol ok then
i tried jumping the starter under the car and nothing, so i pulled it out. when i did that i hooked it up to the battery and bypassed the solenoid and it spun but then after i dropped it a little the solenoid worked lol. so im guessing i need a new starter, or just solenoid?
i tried jumping the starter under the car and nothing, so i pulled it out. when i did that i hooked it up to the battery and bypassed the solenoid and it spun but then after i dropped it a little the solenoid worked lol. so im guessing i need a new starter, or just solenoid?
04-11-10, 05:58 PM
#56
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I'd just get a rebuilt starter and be done with it. Probably worn brushes inside the starter itself seeing as how you dropped it and it worked. Just a guess and nothing more. No guarantee one way or the other.
04-11-10, 09:40 PM
#57
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Hailers,
Want to let you know I'm in Dallas now. Staying in the Oak Cliff area. Looking forward to start networking into the local RX7 community with your help.
I PM'd you my cell and email address to help aid our connecting. So please at least read that one. If you've deleted it already, please PM me contact information for yourself.
To the broad audience,
On subject, keep in mind the issue is about corrosion that builds up over the years creating resistance. My understanding is that electricity travels on the surface of the copper wire, not through it like water in a pipe. Thus why resistance can build up in the wiring itself. But in my opinion, the real issue is the sum total effect of the corrosion at the various connection/contact points. Remind, the power to the starter solenoid flows as follows:
Battery to mail Fuse (1)
Main Fuse (2) to connector to the ignition switch (3)
Through the Ignition switch (4)
Ignition switch to connector (5) to the interlock switch connection (6)
Through the Interlock switch (7)
Connector from the interlock switch (8) to the connector at the starter interrupt relay (9)
through the relay contact (10)
to the connector to the wire that runs to the solenoid (11)
Connector to the solenoid. (12)
So, wiring corrosion aside, the solenoid is trying to draw its needed amps from the battery through twelve (12) separate 20 year old connection points. My fix reduces that down to four (4) brand new connection points running through brand new wire with amp demand from the original wiring reduced down to that of a light bulb. RotaryRocket88 took my design one step better allowing the retention of the starter interupt relay, a great idea which I adopted to my own fix. And since completing that work and driving the car consistantly since, the starter turns like a Timex watch... first time every time.
Side bar, if you want to make your power windows move faster/like new, run a direct power wire from the battery to the main window switch in the drivers door as well. Now my windows almost fly up and down. It was from the wire I ran to my windows that I sourced the power that is now going to my solenoid. So essentially killed two birds with one stone.
Want to let you know I'm in Dallas now. Staying in the Oak Cliff area. Looking forward to start networking into the local RX7 community with your help.
I PM'd you my cell and email address to help aid our connecting. So please at least read that one. If you've deleted it already, please PM me contact information for yourself.
To the broad audience,
On subject, keep in mind the issue is about corrosion that builds up over the years creating resistance. My understanding is that electricity travels on the surface of the copper wire, not through it like water in a pipe. Thus why resistance can build up in the wiring itself. But in my opinion, the real issue is the sum total effect of the corrosion at the various connection/contact points. Remind, the power to the starter solenoid flows as follows:
Battery to mail Fuse (1)
Main Fuse (2) to connector to the ignition switch (3)
Through the Ignition switch (4)
Ignition switch to connector (5) to the interlock switch connection (6)
Through the Interlock switch (7)
Connector from the interlock switch (8) to the connector at the starter interrupt relay (9)
through the relay contact (10)
to the connector to the wire that runs to the solenoid (11)
Connector to the solenoid. (12)
So, wiring corrosion aside, the solenoid is trying to draw its needed amps from the battery through twelve (12) separate 20 year old connection points. My fix reduces that down to four (4) brand new connection points running through brand new wire with amp demand from the original wiring reduced down to that of a light bulb. RotaryRocket88 took my design one step better allowing the retention of the starter interupt relay, a great idea which I adopted to my own fix. And since completing that work and driving the car consistantly since, the starter turns like a Timex watch... first time every time.
Side bar, if you want to make your power windows move faster/like new, run a direct power wire from the battery to the main window switch in the drivers door as well. Now my windows almost fly up and down. It was from the wire I ran to my windows that I sourced the power that is now going to my solenoid. So essentially killed two birds with one stone.
04-11-10, 10:26 PM
#58
As promised, some pictures of my relay install. I just cut the B/W wire (starter solenoid) in half near the Starter Cut Relay's plug. The plug/relay side was extended to pin 85 on the new relay to energize the coil, and the solenoid side was connected to pin 87 on the new relay. Other than that, it's just a matter of wiring the 12V source and a ground for the new relay's coil. I'd also suggest soldering every connection, unless you'd like a loose crimp to bring back the no-start condition.
04-11-10, 11:16 PM
#59
04-12-10, 08:48 AM
#61
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I used a window relay that converts the operation to one touch. Most any shop that sells car alarms sells those. For fun, you can incorporate that relay to an aftermarket alarm allowing you to crack the windows with your hand transmitter for hot days among other things.
04-16-10, 10:44 AM
#66
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Starter doesn't click when ignition is turned
I've been searching for this issue, I turn the key to start and sometimes it will crank and start perfectly fine, like yesterday morning. Then today I turn the key to start it and the idiot lights all come on brightly, power is good, but nothing happens at the starter, no clicking or noise of any kind. Beginning to think its the ignition but anyone have any troubleshooting to pinpoint the problem.
A little background on my 89 GTU, a couple of years ago I lost hydraulics to the clutch, clutch pedal went to the floor, and garaged it for the summer. Replaced the slave cylinder and bled the system and was able to drive it then decided to replace the oil cooler that had been leaking for a couple of years. Got this done a few months later and began driving it again and the started having issues with intermitent no starts this past winter. Thought it was the battery going bad after being garaged for so long so tested the battery and it was good, replaced the clutch switch at the clutch pedal that didn't help, andjust replaced the alternator this past weekend thinking it wasn't fully charging the battery. It started strong yesterday morning and all day as I ran some errands but this morning when I turned the key the idiot lights all came on bright but nothing else happened, no clicking or any noise from the starter solenoid. Anyone got any advice?
A little background on my 89 GTU, a couple of years ago I lost hydraulics to the clutch, clutch pedal went to the floor, and garaged it for the summer. Replaced the slave cylinder and bled the system and was able to drive it then decided to replace the oil cooler that had been leaking for a couple of years. Got this done a few months later and began driving it again and the started having issues with intermitent no starts this past winter. Thought it was the battery going bad after being garaged for so long so tested the battery and it was good, replaced the clutch switch at the clutch pedal that didn't help, andjust replaced the alternator this past weekend thinking it wasn't fully charging the battery. It started strong yesterday morning and all day as I ran some errands but this morning when I turned the key the idiot lights all came on bright but nothing else happened, no clicking or any noise from the starter solenoid. Anyone got any advice?
04-16-10, 01:25 PM
#67
^ A few things to try:
1) Try applying 12V power to the starter solenoid directly. A screw driver across the main battery cable to the solenoid spade connector works, as well as a short jumper wire (large gauge preferably).
2) Bypass the interlock switch with a piece of wire temporarily, and see if there's a change.
3) Bypass the starter cut relay with a jumper wire from the B/L wire to the B/W. IIRC they're the same color wires on S5s. Check the wiring diagrams if unsure.
4) Remove the ignition switch and CAREFULLY take it apart & clean the contacts. If they fall out on you, you'll never get them back in the correct way.
5) Clean the ring terminal connections to the main fuse.
6) If the starter solenoid proved to be ok in test # 1, and nothing else helped, wire up an extra relay as suggested, and call it a day.
1) Try applying 12V power to the starter solenoid directly. A screw driver across the main battery cable to the solenoid spade connector works, as well as a short jumper wire (large gauge preferably).
2) Bypass the interlock switch with a piece of wire temporarily, and see if there's a change.
3) Bypass the starter cut relay with a jumper wire from the B/L wire to the B/W. IIRC they're the same color wires on S5s. Check the wiring diagrams if unsure.
4) Remove the ignition switch and CAREFULLY take it apart & clean the contacts. If they fall out on you, you'll never get them back in the correct way.
5) Clean the ring terminal connections to the main fuse.
6) If the starter solenoid proved to be ok in test # 1, and nothing else helped, wire up an extra relay as suggested, and call it a day.
04-21-10, 08:56 PM
#68
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Thanks RR88, I found your postings on a search about the start - click no start problems and have it all printed out. Will do the troubleshooting this weekend and see what happens. I may have to rewire from the battery to the started and bypass the ignition switch but I'll start with cleaning the battery terminals and progress from there.
I do appreciate the help. I love the car and have found over the years that when something happens this is the place to come to find a solution.
I do appreciate the help. I love the car and have found over the years that when something happens this is the place to come to find a solution.
04-28-10, 11:03 AM
#69
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As promised, some pictures of my relay install. I just cut the B/W wire (starter solenoid) in half near the Starter Cut Relay's plug. The plug/relay side was extended to pin 85 on the new relay to energize the coil, and the solenoid side was connected to pin 87 on the new relay. Other than that, it's just a matter of wiring the 12V source and a ground for the new relay's coil. I'd also suggest soldering every connection, unless you'd like a loose crimp to bring back the no-start condition.
Added this mod as RotaryRocket88 Illustrated and now I have no problems with the starter cranking each and every time and it cranks way faster now too.
Thanks for getting the ball rolling Hozzman.
10-17-10, 05:26 PM
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F@$k yea!! I got so damm tired of the unpredictable,tempermental click of shear embarassement that I always look for a hill or incline to park! So whenever it wants to act up I jus jump it off the hill!!
