nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Well, my original plan is to repaint the car myself, but work is coming up and I probably won't be free for a long time ...

no choice, gotta let someone do it.

I read a lot of reviews people said Dupont is much better than PPG. I had PPG experience cuz I had a shop paint one of my bumpers for my RX-8. it came out pretty good.

Another question is did anybody here tried to strip everything to repaint the whole body ? meaning no engine, no interior, nothing.

Cuz the factory primer ain't that great. so I was thinking if Im going to spend the money, might as well do everything right.

Thx for the input.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I used PPG Concept Acrylic Urethane, their best single stage. I went single stage for the ease of future door dings. If some asshat door dings my car, I can fix it in a matter of just an hour or so, not nearly so easy with 2 stage paints.


Unless you are good at painting, lucky or just not a tard like me, the paint quality in the can will be the least important factor in the quality of the final results. I spent a lot of money on paint, but not nearly enough on the paint gun. PPG has a less expensive single stage. If I had used the cheaper stuff and spent the extra money on a better gun, I would have a better paint job.

What ever way you go, don't primer the bumper covers. I learned that the hard way. Just clean, sand/scuff degrease and shoot. If you had a new factory fresh bumper cover that had never been painted, different story. Same story with the door handles. If you prime and then paint them, the additional paint thickness will cause the mechanism to bind.

The rest of the car, do what makes you happy. I repaired all-every last one-ding dent etc. and made the car perfectly straight. I spent lots of time doing this.

It's a lot of work, but very very rewarding. I had a heck of a good time painting my car. It looks good.

Rob xx 7 was very helpful and knows his stuff. So does Classicauto but I don't think he is around here much anymore.

Good luck.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

What paint gun did you use? I'm planning on doing my paint and body work on my restoration. The body work doesn't really concern me, but the painting does. I'm thinking I may have cheaped out on the gun. I do plan on test painting a junk fender before I tackle the rest of the car to dial in the gun. Proper adjustments to the gun play a vital role, too.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I bought a set of guns primer, finish and touch up, that were at that time being sold on the PPG website to consumers. It is not on the PPG site, but here is a link.

http://www.tooltopia.com/atd-tools-6900.aspx

The touch-up gun works fantastic. I can paint with it and lay out the paint like a mirror. I could never get those results with the other two guns.

If you think you cheaped out, you did.

I never was satisfied with my setup on the primer or finish guns. Sketchy instructions combined with my lack of experience. Another problem (I have been told) is that I was spraying black. I had difficulty seeing the surface while I was painting-a result of the black paint and not enough lighting.

I painted a spare hood, I sprayed test patterns etc. I just never got smooth orange-peel free results. I either got orange peel or runs.

I did lots of wet sanding and buffing. My friends tell me it looks great. When the car is clean I get admiring stares from other drivers. I just know that if the whole car was as perfect as the mirrors and the back bumper cover, I would be totally happy.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

My problem is also going to be that I am spraying black. There is no hiding of imperfections in a black paint job. It sounds like your paint job turned out good, you are just like I am and can't let minor flaws go. Hopefully, my project turns out good too, I just need to get off my butt and start hammering out some body work.

3vil

iTrader: (4)

at least with single stage (that doesn't have flake/pearl in it) you have a lot of leeway with cutting/buffing. the runs and orange peel can be fixed for the most part, but you gotta be really careful or else you'll just make things worse. as for paint guns, i've always liked the iwata w400. however i used it mostly for painting/clearing rv's so i liked having the slightly higher output.

Aheadofu

I have used PPG and have had good results. I painted my 1990 GTU Stripped all the bad primer using chemical stripper down to bare metal. I removed almost all the interior and everthing off the fender wells all moldings because I was changing the color and did not want it to look bad. It took me about two weeks from start to finish. I used base coat clearcoat from ppg. 2 self etching primer layers, 3 base coat layers, 4 clearcoat layer. Kind of a pain

jjwalker

From my experience, you can't NOT get orange peel with single stage paint unless you mix it yourself. The EPA limits the amount of solvents that can be put into premix paints. You just have to wetsand and compound the hell out of the paint and get the orange peel out.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

I like PPG products, hard to beat for the money.

For the race car we used the new waterborne basecoat by Auto Air http://www.autoaircolors.com/ and it came out OK. It takes a little bit to get used to it, and you really need to read the directions from the maufacturer about mixing etc, but the colours are really bright and it covers like none other. MUCH less paint used than solvent based systems, so it costs less too.
For clears I like Speedclear and Nanoclear from Metalstorm in Ohio, sorry no link to thier site. The Speedclear is awesome, goes down really slick, hardens pretty quick and is really easy to use. The Nanoclear is harder to work with, but worth it in some cases.
The PPG clears are also really good, just make sure you get the right one for your application, since PPG has about a half-dozen.

durtled

i want to do a matte dark grey with a stripe down the side of the car from the headlights to the tail lights if u look at urs u will prolly see the area im talking about. can i just put clearcoat over the matte charcoal?

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

hmm ... the more u guys talk about paint, the more I want to do this myself ...

Should I give up the idea of "let someone else do it cuz I don't time, at least a year?"

3vil

iTrader: (4)

if you spray clear coat over the grey it will be glossy. most all base coats are matte in color before you clear them. however, many paint manufactures make flattening agents that will give you a range of dullness, from semigloss to true flat depending on how much you add. the tricky part is that flattened clear sprays a lot like candy, if your over lap is not correct you will get stripes that will look like ****. the only way to fix it is to strip the paint off and try again.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

You do realize I am discussing a three-part catalized paint? By definition one must mix it before use. I'm not talking bout old school lacquer or non catalysts enamels.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Unfortunately, dealing with the paint is only a fraction of the work involved when refinishing a car.
Those few brilliant hours when you finally see color applied are preceded by dozens and dozens of hours of sheer boredom and misery as you prep the body.

If you lack the facilities and tools (not to mention the experience), painting a car yourself can easily cost more than having it done professionally.
A good body man can repair damage that looks hopeless to the novice and just as important, knows when a repair panel is the best option (and how to properly install it).
He also knows how to assemble the panels for best fit...a highly underrated art.

I've painted several cars- with varying results- and in future would limit my involvement to stripping/cleaning before turning over to a pro.
A great deal of cost in a paint job is simple removal of parts...the less masking needed the better, and most of that grunt work can be owner performed.

The owner can also afford to be more obsessive about the little details that make a big difference...stuff like running a tap through all the capture nuts and antiseizing all the hardware, making sure all the weathersealing is fully clipped in...things like that (BTW, be sure to include the cost of new hardware into your budget...lots of plastic fasteners/clips aren't going to survive disassembly and will require replacement- this is commonly referred to as "nickel and diming you to death" although the real costs are hardly pocket change).

If you're really considering doing it yourself, it would be highly instructive to first have the car examined by a pro- pay him as necessary- and see what he(she?) says.
I spent $50 getting an estimate on my car and it was a revelation...he started commenting when 20 ft away and by the time it was on the lift, I had learned more about the chassis than I'd learned in two years of ownership.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Thx for the advise.

Right now my FC is trapped inside my gf's garage ... its all block by the snow and I have no interest in removing them(2 feet tall dude)

As soon as the snow clears Im gonna get the FC out to get an Estimate.

Actually when I was doing Emission testing like a yr something ago I did "kinda" ask the shop owner (his shop also does body work, have dust free room and stuff, and he is PPG global painting system shop) and he just told me "oh, repaint the whole thing? is it really worth it? hmm anyway I would say about 3K."

He also told me thats just kinda bare minimum and if I want to make it look nice, it will probably cost 4-5 K cuz he will have to take all the moldings and stuff down to re paint them all.

Does that sound reasonable? Really don't know much about body work prices.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

My estimate was for $6k, in the original color.
I have no real rust but do have a lot of random, small dinging.
The stock front and rear bumper caps were to be painted separately with the appropriate paint and the "rock guard" strip down the lower side was to be redone.

I'm sure it would have looked great but was too much money to invest in a daily driver valued at about half that cost.
I just try to keep her waxed and squint as I get close.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Well, my car has a bit of rust at the edge of the fender. which is not a big deal I think.

and some rust on the sunroof.

planning to lift the carpet later to see if there is any rust there, if there is, probably gonna part the car out and junk it. (I hope not)

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

you have to realize a few things when choosing paint and guns, your environment.
Some paints are better suited for spraying outside of a spray booth. Its not JUST the cleanliness of the booth, its the air flow, you can lay down much much smoother paint inside a booth due to the airflow. If you were spraying in the ultimate environment then you can choose a different paint and a top of the line gun. Spraying in your garage you are so limited by your environment that buying a $500 spray gun you are 100% wasting your money, never mind you have no technique under your belt.

Metallic- have to be clearcoated if you want to polish them, metallic are just that- metallic particles in the paint, without clearcoat these particles can be shifted over time.

Basecoat paints have to be clearcoated, they offer no UV protection and are air dried by benefit of their reducer, the clearcoat is what locks this in.

You would be better off doing the prep ( AFTER talking to the person who is doing the paint ), and letting someone else paint the car for you. I can tell you right now that the first time you do bodywork you will be in for a rude awakening once paint goes on, all your faults will shine through and you will realize that it takes years to perfect.


Talk to a PPG shop and he will push PPG, talk to a DuPont shop and he will push DuPont, talk to someone who has painted all of them and tell them what you need and he will suggest what he thinks is best

jjwalker

Nope, didn't know. Sorry

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Ok, now i am gonna start a discussion/controversy. I painted my 87 gxl last summer. The car is a Canadian GXL. I bought it as a beater/college car. It had been hailed heavily and had typical Canadian rust...holes in the rear fender, bubbles on the sunroof etc. I did minimal body work. I just fixed some surface chips that had rust (sanded and killed the rust), filled other chips. I did not fill any dents since the car was covered with hail dents. I cleaned it with wax remover then hand sanded it with 600 grit. Then I painted it with my HVLP gun and....

Rustoleum!

I thinned it with 10% Acetone and 10% oder-less Mineral Spirits. The thinning reduced the viscosity so it could be sprayed. The Acetone flashes off fast and the Mineral Spirits linger a little longer, just long enough to let the enamel level out nicely. BTW, I masked the whole car and then used my touch up hvlp gun to paint each panel separately.

I spent $35 on the gallon of paint and $20 on the acetone and mineral spirits. I used only about 1-1/2 quart of the paint, it was 'reduced' to make about just less than 2 quarts. I could paint another car out of the gallon.

Pretty ghetto? Maybe. But for a daily beater, I would do it again. I could not have justified any kind of professional paint on this car, but right now, 6 mos later the car still shines and looks good. Does it have the deep shine of 'real paint'? No. Does it look 100% even maybe 1000% better than the car looked before? A resounding yes. This is not a rattle can job. This is not the in-famous '$50 paint job with a roller' paint job either. The car is shiny. I have not buffed it at all.Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics, but if you saw better pics, you would be more impressed, not less.

Discussion to ensue!

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

jack- you could have bought a 2 part paint for under $100, such as the nason line from dupont ( for a gallon, you dont need a gallon for a RX7 )

but from those pics it does not look bad, is it the camera or is that car a really light blue?

rotary#10

iTrader: (38)

It looks very reason. Presentable. Although not an original color. It looks Okay.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

True that. I could have purchased the Rustoleum paint by the quart for $11 per quart and spent $22 to paint the car. Instead, I bought the gallon and have some left over. I could paint another whole car with what is left over. I guess I could look at it as if I had +/- $17 worth of paint on the car.

The actual color is Smoke Gray. The color balance of those Iphone pics is thrown off by the elegant blue window tint... In person the car looks like it is a shiny primer-gray color.

I wouldn't paint a really nice car with this paint, but it is great for a beater/hotrod type car. The car looks a hell of a lot better than it did before. I painted the trim with Rustoleum Satin Black over a coat of adhesion promoter. I masked the bumper and continued the black trim color on around the front and back bumper covers. Perfect match and looks great.

Anyone considering this should be reminded: This paint can NEVER be painted over by a professional paint job. The reducers(solvents) in a modern paint WILL cause this paint to wrinkle and detach from the car. This is the some reason you don't rattle can a car with primer then paint it with 'real paint'.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Thanks.

The original color was Silver. I did not paint the door sills or the under the hood. It doesn't hurt to look at it.

I haven't buffed or waxed it. This summer, if the car is still in my possession, I intend to buff and wax it to see how shiny it can be.



It is what it is.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

you best go easy "buffing" that paint, lol

seriously- I would leave it alone