rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

I am thinking about making a larger stock mount intercooler for the 2nd Gen. Will you guys be interested if it's around $600? If you want a front mount, what's your budget?

Chuck

Scott 89t2

I don't think it will help much, not enough air comes in the scoop and even less can exit though the bottom space under the IC...

the best thing to help would be if you angled the fins at a 45^ angle or so, I think that would help move a lot more air in and out of the IC.

fastrotaries

i think that if you wanted to sell these , real well they would have to be under $400. I couldn't justify $600 on a stock mount when it's about half way to a front mount. Now a Front mount for about the same price, bolt in would be KILLER. and in reality that's what we should focus on. Although the stock one definitely has room for improvement......you could build your own front mount for about $300 dollars.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

$300 for a front mount? Wow. that amazes me. While I was making APEX custom front mount for the 3rd gen, it costed me around $1100 using the APEX core. I guess 2nd gen guys are much wiser than those 3rd Gen owners. Can't do it for $300. The core itself costs $650. I guess I should just go back making parts for 3rd Gen. =P I know a lot of 2nd Gen people felt left out because all the new products coming out were aimed for 3rd Gen. What are you guys looking for? Do you want something that hasnt been made yet? I am vey interested in hearing your opinions and your request for special parts. I am just trying to help so no flames. Thanks.

Chuck

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, yeah, most of the 3Gen owners have more money than they do knowledge and/or time, so they usually pay twice as much for a shiny IC kit that may even have unknown performance value. I've noticed this with other products, too. We 2Gen folks are mostly cheap bastards with lots of time on our hands. I think that most of us just slap a $50 Starion or Volvo truck IC in the front of our car, or order a custom Spearco unit and do all the plumbing work ourselves. You have to remember that most of our cars are only worth $2K - $6K USD. BTW, a larger 2Gen stock mount IC is a waste of time because the stock scoop is mounted in such a lousy position.

Some 2Gen products that I think would sell:
1) A sun roof panel that doesn't rust. Composite and glass would be the best sellers.
2) A stereo bezel that doesn't crack in a year, maybe made from CF. http:/./www.mazdatrix.com/pictures/l-inter/l-f.jpg
3) An ashtray cover that doesn't mildew, fade, crack, etc., in a year. Once again, CF would probably sell best.
4) A bolt-on adapter that allows a normal aftermarket power antenna to be used with the stock stereo.
5) A driveshaft that allows a TII rear end to be attached to an NA transmission.
6) A adapter for mounting an MT into an AT body car. There may also be a smaller demand for mounting an AT into an MT body car.
7) An inexpensive "kit" for installing a TII turbo on an NA engine. I think that this is the only kit that a 2Gen owner would be interested in.
8) Quality, low-price replacements for the following parts that Mazda shafts us at the cash register for because we have no other alternative but to remove and/or bypass the parts when they fail:
BAC & ACV
Pulsation Damper for 86-88
Metering Oil Pump (Especially for 89-92 models because a new MOP costs over $1,100 USD!)

Scott 89t2

or a piece of software, were when the words turbo and NA come up together, it doesn't let the topic through and just makes a big "NO" on there screen

and the kit would include a fully asembled TII

fastrotaries

Somethings ARE CRAZY For example: there is no cheap way of doing an N/A to a TII conversion. The best way will run a min of 2-G's buy a J-spec motor.....i.e from www.fc3s.org and then just hook up a haltech www.rx7.com or a wolf or electromotive or whatever.....if you want to also pass emissions.......JUST GET A TII. and save your selves a lot of head problems......i've done 1 swap and it's work...so learn from my mistakes....please...i got mine for $3,000 and i run a 14.00 all day long.


As for the I/C, the pipes were from jegs and the I/C core was a starion unit from dave gibson, all about $300 smakers......i did it myself so labor was FREE. BUT if you sold a unit with a quality core for under $850 the that would totally rock ..... Please help us out anyway you can thanks

Evil Aviator

Geez, it certainly wouldn't be cheap the way you are trying to do it! Hey, I agree that it's smarter to sell the NA car and buy a TII, but if you have spent any time on this and other forums you will see numerous posts asking how to slap a junkyard TII turbo onto an NA engine. Obviously, anybody who wants to do this knows little about engines, so the kit would have to be pretty simple with good instructions, as well as cheap, which would rule out an aftermarket EMS and Jspec engine. I'm not sure what would be in the kit, but it should use the stock turbo unit and an RX-7 EMS.

You do bring up another good idea - how about a J-spec engine installation kit? That's probably an even better idea than the TII turbo install on an NA.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Some of those stuff I can make. I used to own RX-7 Fashion and some of you might have bought the 3" SS downpipe and midpipe from me 2 years ago. I can have fibeglass or carbon fiber stuff made. My buddy runs a fiberglass bodykit factory in fact I already have the Mazdaspeed front lip and rear spoiler base made. You can see those on my website under Mazdaspeed. The problem is I do not have a 2nd Gen myself so I might need some volunteers to offer me the parts that you want copied either in carbon fiber or fiberglass. Some of the stuff that I think can be made:

Fiberglass vented hood for front mount people

Border meterpanel (mickey mouse pod) that fits the 2nd Gen

Fiberglass sun roof, need to see how easy it is to be copied.

interior parts in carbon fiber or fiberglass

Correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't the rotor on the NA engine have higher compression? You guys just put on the turbo kit on a NA engine? Anyways, I need a lot of feed back from you guys. I dealt mostly with 3rd Gen and my only experience with 2nd gen were making those 3" SS downpipes and midpipes. But making parts for cars is all the same as long as the access to the car is available for test fitting.


If you want put a stock turbo system on a NA engine what's the complicaton? Bear with me because I don't have too many experieces with 2nd gen. Still learning the 2nd gen and still want to help. You guys have to provide me more details.

I have access to machine shop, mandrel bend tubing shop and also fiberglass bodykit factory. Give me as much detail as you can including what the complication is and what's need to be done. I am eager to help. No one really makes stuff for 2nd gen and I don't think that's right. There are much more 2nd Gen owners than 3rd gen owners.

If you can offer parts to be copied to make fiberglass or carbon fiber replacement, that will be great. If you can help out making the turbo kit, that's great too. Just keep this thread going and hopefully we can have something in progress. Thanks all.

Chuck

phinsn98

iTrader: (2)

Chuck, I really appreciate your consideration to the Turbo II crowd. As much as I am concerned about saving money...I am willing to spend money on something proven to work. I cannot speak for everyone but I am not one to skimp on cost because I own a TII and it is only worth so much money. I love my car and if something is out there that meets my needs I will buy it or put it on my wish list. I came up with the idea of more efficient top mount intercooler kit a few months back. Everyone flamed the idea. There is no one that makes a front mount intercooler kit for the TII that makes you cream in your pants. The intake on a TII just looks lopsided uncovered and the piping for the Greddy going across the engine bay just looks retarded. This is what I look for when I buy something. Is it appealing to the eye? Does it get the job done. The only front mount intercooler kits that look good are 3rd gen intakes, panspeed or greddy elbow with a core of your choosing ala Soul Assasin or Japtrix. There is something about opening the hood and seeing that. I would say that a top mount intercooler has potential to be a failure because of heat soak but I will say this again. The Suburu WRX has a top mount intercooler, the Porcshe 911 Turbo has top mounted intercooler and they both make POWER. So my question is this...if you changed the design of the core (fins, length, width) would it work better. If I could get a top mounted intercooler that was proven more efficient then I would be willing to spend the money. It would save on having to get the 3rd gen intake, custom piping, removal of the power steering pump and core. I know this long but I will finish with this. Chuck you are what we have needed for a while. Someone with Japanese connection as you had with RX7fashion, and someone who is interested in asking for our opinion. It would be interesting to see you speak with Dave Gibson (FC3S.ORG), he has been trying to get a body kit together for the 2nd gen which is the largest post on this forum. I would love to see a light kit like the CWEST but for a 2nd gen or maybe the KnightSport kit. Just my $ 2.
Please feel free to drop me a line anytime. It would be great to help you with ideas.

Thanks,
David

zyounker

The intercooler core on my WRX does not look any different from a TII core. Sut bigger & a little nicer..

To fix the problem with the tmic on a TII you would need to re-design the hood, not the intercooler..

-Zach

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

David:

Thanks for your input. As far as I know, the intake manifold design and also the location of the throttle body makes the Greddy and HKS front mount kit looks like. I know in Japan, lot of 2nd Gen people use a adaptor plate to bolt on the 3rd Gen upper intake manifold and throttle body. As far as intercooler goes, a front mount intercooler or a larger stock mount can be done. RE Amemiya already offered a larger stock mount intercooler for the 2nd Gen TII. Most aftermarket front mount IC's I have seen such as the HKS and Greddy are probably half the size of most 3rd Gen front mount intercoolers. It's interesting to see you guys' opinions about the intercooler. Most 3rd Gen owners do not like front mounts. They say the car will be overheating. For TII people, you prefert front mounts. hmm.... very interesting.... Improvement should be able to be done for the stock mount. If you look at the 3rd gen stock mount intercoolers, all the aftermarket stock mounts still uses that small air inlet from the top of the radiator. The surface area of the stock mount intercooler is larger than the stock one but the air inlet source does not really change but there is still substaintial temperature drop. The concept should be the same for the TII. You can increase the surface area of the intercooler and also the thickness of it. The intercooler core, of course should be a more efficient core. The stock intercooler core on the 3rd gen sucks and I think it's probably the same thing for the TII. All made by Mazda. Personally, I prefer front mounts. I have an custom APEX core front mount IC on my car. I do not know if TII people prefer front mount more or stock mounts more. Either one can be made though. I believe in giving people choices when it comes to upgrading their cars. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. I will scan the picture of the stock mount upgrade intercooler of RE Amemiya and post it here shortly. If Dave from FC3S.Org can make stuff for you guys, that's really great. It should have been done a long time ago. Good luck guys and keep the thread going. Thanks. BTW, for those of you who want interior panel or bodypanel made of fiberglass or carbon fiber, can you take photos of them and post here? That will give me some idea on how much it's going to cost roughly.

Chuck

phinsn98

iTrader: (2)

Chuck, if a top mount intercooler can be made and proven to be more efficient, less fabrication and increase power or give greater potential for increased power then I would rather go top mount. If I could run 15psi safely with a top mount and did not have to deal with heatsoak then in my eyes it is the way to go. The point I was trying to pass on to you in regards to Dave Gibson was that he posed the idea of a kit but it has fallen through. I was trying to make light of the fact that there are alot of second gen owners that want these things that you mention but either don't have the captiol to develop them or the resources or contacts. My point was for you to speak with Dave Gibson, pick his brain and maybe both of you can benifit... Hence all 2nd gen owners benefit

Thanks,
David

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

Back to interior panels.

Here's some pictures of various interior panels that might look good in carbon fiber.

The Stereo/Logicon Surround Panel:



The ashtray:



Another piece that is broke on my car is the plastic piece that houses the wiper switch and the headlight switch. I don't have a pic, I'll keep looking.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

From my experience on the 3rd Gen, a front mount will be always more efficient than the stock mount, even if they are the same dimension. The same thing should apply to the 2nd gen. I am sure there is going to be improvement over the stock one for sure, otherwise, RE Amemiya wouldn't come out with a larger stock mount kit. But if you are talking about overall performance, I will get a front mount over the stcok mount anytime. I do not know if 2nd gen has overheating problems like the 3rd gen. The 2nd Gen radiator is sitting straight up, unlike the 3rd gen one which sits at an angle and it does not really get a very good air flow. As long as your radiator is good enough and your car is not going to overheat, a front mount in my mind is a better choice. Generally, adding a front mount will increase the water temp by 5-10 F. Considering other factors, front mounts also cost more for the following reasons:

1. Comes with its own piping
2. larger intercooler core which costs more
3. cannot reuse stock joint hoses so you need to use heavy duty silicon hose joints

I have a dual probe intercooler temp gauge that I use to test the efficiency of the intercoolers. I can use it to test the efficiency of the intercooler. Heatsoak is a problem all the stock mounts are facing no matter on a 3rd gen rx7 or 2nd gen rx7. But once the car is moving, the temperature should drop fairly fast. It's actually the same thing for front mount. It takes longer for it to be heatsoaked but if the car is sitting in traffic for long enough, the temperature of the outlet still rises to be just like the stock mount. But tem goes down faster. I used my dual probe intercooler gauge to get all those datas, not just by theory. I am not just here to sell some stuff to make some quick bucks. I will give you pros and cons and hopefully that will help out your decision making. I already made a post on that bodykit thread and hopefully Dave from FC3S.Org will want to work with me on his project.

Chuck

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Would you be able to post larger pictures of those? It's kind of hard to see the details. If there are a lot of curves, it's going to be hard to make those parts. Carbonfiber is flexible but to fit all those curves, it's hard not to distort the pattern. Thanks.

Chuck

fc3s.org

If I could get an aftermarket stock top mount location IC in a larger size, I would be game. I run my TII (which is an 86 N/A that was converted ) on the track only. A FMIC would cause me problems having to duct enough air to my oil coolers and radiator. With the car doing constant high speeds, the heat soaking wouldn't be as bad with a larger hood scoop pulling more air in. Hell, sometimes at the track the temps are 110F+ so a FMIC wouldn't do that much good anyways. This is just for my purpose.

I also posted to the bodykit thread. I definately think we can get something going. Hell, I have some good access to people who would be willing to have their cars used for measurments and fitting etc.

I think hoods would be a huge seller. Even just the stock TII hoods in CF or FG. Mostly CF is going to be the biggest selller. I have seen alot of posts trying to get group buys for them, but they dont materialize. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

jrussell

The reason a front mount intercooler is better is due to aerodynamics. A front mount sits in a high pressure area of the car... the nose. The top mount, even though there is the scoop, is in a low pressure area of the car. Since it's in a low pressure area it's going to get less airflow.

The simplicity of the engine bay with the top mount is nice I must say. I do like the piping that is on the 3rd gen, but true the conversion to FMIC on a 2nd gen makes the piping look terrible.

I guess overall it would depend on how far you're going to mod your 7. If you're going for mild-moderate mods, and using the stock turbo an upgraded top mount should do the trick. If you're going to go moderate-wild mods on your 7 I don't think top mount will give enough cooling.

The comment was made that the Porsche 911 has a top mount intercooler, but it wasn't mentioned what the size of the core was, and that the vents are placed in high pressure areas of the car. Plus on any factory car they don't build them to run wild amounts of boost. Who knows why, because my guess is that 60-80% of the owners want to increase their power once they get the car, hence have to change stock components to aftermarket.

I think this is a great discussion though! Let's keep it going!

-Jason
* 1987 TII
* 3mm Apex Seals
* Medium street port
* 3" Downpipe
* RP Cat-back
* ACV/Air pump removed
* SX Fuel Pressure Regulator
* RP Competition fuel pump

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Making the stock style hood with carbon fiber will be very easy. While we are at it, we should even make the scoop better for the stock top mount intercooler. For people with front mount intercoolers, a vent right after the radiator will be very good such as the ones I am selling for the 3rd Gens. If you want to have both the front vent and rear intercooler scoop, it can be done too. We really need to agree on a particular style which will make this happen much faster. On the stock top mount intercooler concept, it's pretty much the same as the 3rd gen stock mount concept. Idea is the same just differnt cars. The 3rd Gen stock ic's duct sucks as well. If we can improve both the duct and also the efficiency of the intercooler, there should be a vast improvement over the stock one.

Chuck

phinsn98

iTrader: (2)

Uh Oh I'm getting excited!!!!

ZachSpazz

A carbon fiber hood with perhaps a slightly taller air-duct would be quite interesting. Hell, perhaps two versions...one for people with the stock IC and another for people who have converted to FMIC or the N/A guys.

Evil thoughts...

zyounker

A taller scoop will not nesessairly fix it.. You need to create a high pressure zone.. Check out the WRX for an example of what you might want to do.. that long with a taller scoop should help out alot..


The WRX runs ~1 bar boost stock, so a top mount can be made to work good enough... But a front mount will always recieve better airflow..


BTW the 2nd gen radiator does not sit straight up & down. it is at a slant..


-Zach

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

If you decide to make a larger stock mount IC, coating the end tanks with a ceramic paint that with stands heat up to 1200F would help with heat soak issues. A can goes for aobut $5 to $7. Not to mention a CF hood that is sixed for that larger stock mount IC would help its efficiency.

Tim Benton

Node

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, you're going to have to make a new hood and scoop if you want this to work.
Good luck!

TristanTII

I would rather spend my money to put a FMIC, and buy a vented hood, then upgrade the stock IC and by a new hood with bigger/better scoop.

A carbon fiber hood with a nice scoop that was priced fairly would defiently be on my list.

*** a new headlight kit to get rid of the pop ups would be great. Currently our only option is to import from Japan (I believe) and all and all I'd expect to pay like 600-700 for one of those. I would gladly pay in the area of 4-500 for a kit jsut so I don't have to worry about one day ending up driving around a "winking" car during the day