darksider

saved up $500+ and i want to DO IT RIGHT. im a PERFECTIONIST, so i would like to do it like the PROS.

PLEASE POST LINKS THAT WILL HELP. IM A NOOB TO PAINT AND BODY WORK. im sure theres a forum for this kind of ****.

GOALS
to get rid of the rust and to have it one color. exterior only, no engine bay or interior. im not looking for anything nice, but i want to stop rust as much as possible. rust its my main concern for this project.

step one... PREP FOR PAINT

how to get rid of the old paint and rust? what are my options?

i was thinking of getting the rust sand/beed blasted and then sanding the rest.

i hear stripping the paint with chemicals will damage the metal...?

i want to start this project ASAP so i dont spend the money on engine mods. im real serious about this so please KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL and no half *** tips/shortcuts. I LOVE MY CAR, THANKS

Rotary_Knight

iTrader: (4)

My buddy has got a body shop in oakland and he's done some good work. His aim is junpower. Just tell him Alex sent ya and you got a FC which needs some body stuff.

fcdrifter13

PREPPING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP IN A GOOD PAINT JOB

The rest is a cake walk.

I have used a media/sand blaster for removing rust and was very happy with the results. Its cheap, and effective, and can be done at your house(outside) and all you do is sweep up. But sand blasting may not take off everything. To get down to the bone I have used a scotchbrite pad on a diw grinder and it is by far one of the fastest ways of getting down to bare metal.

When you are done with all the rust and body wor wipe the whole car down with some degresser before you add any primer.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Yes prep is everything, but people say that all the time and never really explain it.

The point is - the paint job will only be as good (as last as long) as everything underneath it.


Although I will tell you straight out - if you've never ever done body work or sprayed paint and you're a perfectionist (I mean a PERFECTIONIST) then doing it yourself is going to be borderline on whether or not its worthwhile.

I only say this because there is so much stuff that, when it comes to bodywork, just needs to be known. Basically you are goign to have a monstrous learning curve and may end up re-doing numerous stages of the job as you go.


There is a reason why paying people to do bodywork and paint is expensive.

If you have any specific questions PM me, Ill guide you in the right direction. Good luck.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Bullshit, won't hurt it.....don't get that stuff on your hands though, but if you do water will neutralize it.

darksider

THANKS classicauto, i will surely turn to you for any needed advise or help. also thanks to everyone for taking me serious. i know in the past i have been a hype.

yes i know prep is the most important step. i did some research on primer today and im getting a 50/50 answer.

i want to spend most of the money on prep so i asked a couple of friends if i could just have the car primered at the end. some say yes and that it will protect the car from rust. others say no and that it will start rusting again if i dont paint it. which is correct? again im not going for looks, but now back to prep.

im locating all the rest spots to see if i need to bring it to a professional to get blasted or if i can rent one and do it myself.

*theres little rust on the small dings/dents. NO PROBLEM
*theres rust on the drainage hole where the hatch closes. IM THINKING BIG PROBLEM.
*theres a little (very very little) rust froming on the inside of the car on the edges where the side mirrors bolts in. not a problem i can sand that down and just use nail paint/polisher to cover.

CONCERNS: theres a lot of rust under the car all over the place. where should i worry the most about having rust under the car?

i know the cars not going to last for ever but if i can i would like to make it last as long as possible.

THANKS

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

primer will absorb moisture and eventually rust again.. u have to use base coat and sealer if you want it to look like primer and still hold up...u can get some black base coat and sealer pretty cheap its worth the extra $ so your not redoing it in 3 months..

Icemark

If you are going to just primer the car, then you need a primer sealer not just a rattle can primer.

See rattle can primer and primer fillers all contain a lot of Talc, which absorbs water. So if you have bare metal and just spray a primer and not a primer sealer, then you will have rust under the paint.

To do it right, you need a etching primer on bare metal, then a primer sealer before painting. If you have a lot of scratches or minor surface imperfections to cover, you would also need a primer filler or primer surfacer between those two.

And all rust needs to be cut out. Rust is cancer and while you might be able to sand blast what you think is all of it, you will never get all of it. Only a dip in a rust stripper tank will get all the rust.

iceblue

500$ didn’t even buy the paint for my engine bay. $500 is how much sand paper was used.

There is no need to bring paint down to metal. If you have bad areas you sand it out and take attention as needed. Rattle stuff should not be used for a anything of a decent paint job.

My blog address just about whatever you will run into.

Icemark

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. His whole budget will be blown for just buying the paint.

darksider

ok so after i remove the paint and rust, i should (this is step by step, please make corrections if necessary)
1) pull all the dents i can out as much as possible to aviod using a lot of bondo. IS BONDO THE SAME AS PRIMER FILLER/PRIMER SURFACER?
2) clean the car. WITH WHAT? WHAT METHOD? can i wash it like a regular car?
3) use bondo/PRIMER FILLER/PRIMER SURFACER for the dents. SHAPE the dents by sanding.
4) clean the car again. should i use the same method in step 2?
5) use etching primer. WTF is this, another bondo that shapes the car for the last final time? do i sand after applying etching primer? if so i believe i will have to clean the car again, what method this time? do i apply it to the whole car or just to the areas where i fixed the dents?
6) after i get the car the way i want it SHAPED and cleaned AGAIN, i use primer sealer. this goes on the whole car correct? is sanding required after this?
7) now for paint. i can now use primer without the worry of rust correct?

ok so about the rust under the car. i think it is impossible to remove all the rust under the car, so what area under the car should i be concern most and focus on?

thanks BIG TIME

darksider

im not concern about paint at this moment, i will primer it if i have to.

thanks for the replies.

iceblue

Not to be rude but it would be wise to bring it to a shop.

Primer does not keep a car from rusting.

iceblue

ull need quickly

board file
6inDA
10inDA
hand sander
air powerd board file
angle grinder
if rust is bad a welder and metal and cutting disks with cut off tool
a good spray gun 300$ a cheep spray gun 150$
A big compressor
air blower chuck

36 grit angel wheels
40grit board paper
80grit board paper
6in 180grit DA paper
6in 320da paper
10in 180grit DA paper
10in 320da paper
320 roll
180 roll
3gal laqure thinner maybe more
2qt wax and grease remover
rags

Bondo
icing
hardener
spreds

etch
primer
guid spray
base
clear
reducer
activator

mesuring cups strainers stirs

if color sanding
1200grit
1500grit
2000grit
compond wax
ebany wax
polish wax
glase
and a buffer equiped with waffle pad and polish pad

some ok alot of elbow grease


EDIT: And to think spray glow will do it for 200$

darksider

daym thats discouraging... aight im not doing engine bay or interior. nor am i doing anything under the car. just the exterior. AGIAN IM ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT REMOVING THE RUST AND PREPPING FOR PAINT. now will that list change or is that what im stuck with?

thanks

darksider

CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN ALL THE BOLD DESCRIPTIONS WITH MORE DETAILS ON WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT DOES?

THANK YOU EVERY EVERY MUCH

reatrdedspleen

500 bucks? 500 dollars is about 250 dollars more than what it costs a professional with all the bells and whistles to do everything. And thats if hes working for free.


Read through iceblues blog about the rust removal. Really REALLY good stuff. If you cant find what your looking for in there, and what he listed, do a little more searching.

Im all for doing everything on your own, trust me, but sometimes, the learning curve is just a little too stiff for me. well, that and money

But deffanitly good luck to you! just do EVERYTHING the RIGHT way, no shortcuts, you get what ya pay for. The end result is 100x better when you do things the right way, might not notice it right away, but give it a year, maybe less, and you'll see.

Tovock

Why is everyone telling him to take it to bare metal? unless the whole car has delamination the only place it needs to go to bare substrate is where it is rusted through... Cancer is a bitch, i ended up cutting and rewelding new metal in on most of my cars rust. If that isnt an option make sure you use a fiberglass renforced filler on the bare metal (its waterproof) it is a bitch to sand but get it close and use plastic filler over it for finishing... 500 bucks is not nearly enough for a paintjob, i am cutting corners on mine(track car) and i have about 500 bucks into abrasives...

iceblue

That’s the stuff used for just painting. To do a good paint job that’s what you use. Spray glow will half *** the paint job and sand the clear coat and just hit it with base and clear. This is why the perfectionist you are after costs so much money. If you don’t have the cash you are going to have to give somewhere. If you want to do it yourself you’re going to have to give and understand it will take a few tries it might nor work out for a couple tries. There is allot of skill and science in painting and how you prep.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Board file - a long straight sanding tool used to level long straight areas

AIr powered board file - same as above just air powered. Not a necessity and for an inexperienced person, you'd probably waste more time with this than anythign else.

320 roll - A roll of sandpaper (I am assuming you mean discs for the DA?) either 5" or 6" depending on the size of the DA180 roll - same as above but different grit

Bondo - Raw filler, very bulky, used to fill large dents - carve with files and rough 40 or 80 grit paper

Icing (or putty) - Fine filler used to fill minor dents and 40 or 80 grit scratches in bondo.

Hardener - catalysit for Bondo and Putty

Spreaders - Tool for applying bondo and putty, typically a steel paddle bought in a set of varying widths

Ecth primer - baremetal sealant and adhesion promoter, applied to bare metal areas before primer.

Guide Spray - Used to coat an area of bodywork prior to sanding in order to create a layer that will rub off easily and reveal low/highspots. Useful, especially for someone who can't feel a dent with just their hand.

Base - paint, its the colour part....umm kinda self explanitory

Clear - Clearcoat, makes the base shiny, adds protection and can also be wetsanded and buffed to remove orange peel

Activator - Cataylist for Clearcoat

Reducer - used to thin base coat and clear coat

And what do you mean don't need this section? Aren't you doing the job yourself?

edit: I would say though that there are a couple things you can get away without having and still end up with professional results.
1) DA - firstly if you've never sanded with one and you think it will save you time - then you will end up with WAVY panels because they take a nack to run properly
2) Airboard - same reasons as DA
3)Etch Primer - You can buy professional direct to metal Primers now. I use BASF material - Powerfill series primers (DP25, DP26, DP27) are all direct to metal, no epoxy or etch primer required. Many other major suppliers have thier own

darksider

i was assuming that section was for the final stage which is to paint and im not worried about that. like i said ill primer it untill i save up enough for paint (by the time i finish prepping the car for paint i should have the money for paint) . im more concerned now about removing the rust and prepping the car. is it possible to have multiple layers of primer to help reduce rust formation?

couple of question i still need answers to,

primer is like a layer of paint correct? if i were to have enough to paint i wouldnt need to lay down layers of primer before paint correct? just over the sealer correct?

ohh and whats a 6inDA, 10inDA? i thought most of it can be hand sanded?

thanks

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I don't really understand what you're asking here, but first off - you don't need to put down multiple layers of primer to prevent rust, if the steel is good you only need (and only should use) the amount of primer necessary to fill rough sanding scratches.

Yes, primer is *like* a layer of paint, however primer has a thicker build-up than paint.

a 6" DA is an orbital sander with a 6" pad...10" DA is the same thing but with a 10" pad.

Back onto the first question.....I think you are asking whether or not you would need to primer the whole car......technically no. I you have good paint in areas, sand it with 400grit and you can apply the new paint directly over top of it....the only reason you need primer is to fill in rough sanding scratches (those left from 80-120-240 grit sanding) and provide adhesion to bare metal, or bare plastic areas.

Nick86

iTrader: (1)

Taking on a project like this takes a lot of time, patience, money and equipment. For the money you have, all you'll get is frustrated. Body work is an art, and something that (I think) should be left to the pros. If it's not done right the first time, the job wont last and it will all need to be done again. I applaud your enthusiasm, but I fear that you're jumping into the deep end unprepaired.

Prep is the key, so it is best left to experenced people. What I would do is this: Find a shop you trust. Don't go to a chain, go to a personally owned shop who's employees can help you do this cheaper. Talk to them and find out what unskilled work you can do to make their jobs quicker and easier. Removing trim, lights etc and even cutting out rust is the easy part, but paying the body shp to do it is costly. If you prepair the car such that all the body shop has to do is weld in metal, do some filler and spray the car, your bill will be way less. Maybe classicauto could say if this is even possible or not.

Anyway, do a bunch of research, talk to shops and keep saving. You'll regret rushing a paint job.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

These are very good and correct points.

I do many many jobs for customers where they bring it in stripped, or they have done their own body work (some of these cases make me shudder) but it is fairly easy to find ways to save money on the job.

As long as it is a reputable shop they should be easy to work with and most shop owners I know are more then happy to lend advice and tips, but there is no doubt that body work is an art. Its scuplting.

darksider

thanks to everyone for looking out but im still convinced i want to do this. i believe the best way to learn is the hard way. everyone needs to start somewhere so i might as well start now.

reason i dont car for paint is becasue im not about looks. i do want to remove all the rust i can and i do want to make it look decent. also i kind of like the advantages of primer, easy and quick repairs, and primer is alwasy cheaper then paint.

ok so im going to start the project this week and i need to gather everything i need for the frist step. removing the rust and paint.

still dont knwow which method to tackle since i dont know all the options.
*sand blasting and sanding seems to be the best route.
*can someone enlighten me on the chemical way? i hear there are chemicals that harden rust and stops it from forming. wouldnt this be a better alternative to remove rust?

this is what im thinking, use that chemical to harden the rust, sand blast the residue, then sand down the area to make sure its gone. how does that sound?

what sand paper grit do i need for this step?
what BRAND chemical/product is good for rust removal?

is there a brand/make that i can use for this whole project to make it easier on buying chemical/primer/products? i figure its smarter to use the same brand becasue they were meant to be used together.

thanks