Yup, got a letter from mindtrain and it was fairly bad news for me and the race pipe today

"No, we don't sell anything to replace just the manifold. Unfortunately, the length of the stock manifold is too short to make an effective replacement. For the headers to work well, the runners need to be a bit longer than the manifold allows. That's why the two precats are replaced. As far as emmissions are concerned, you really only need the main cat unless you are running the original main cat. Any cat made in the last 10 years or so can easily handle the job of emmissions on its own (concerning technology; a 10 year old cat won't be so effective). It sounds like you have already replaced your cats with a race pipe. If that's the case, it would have to be modified or replaced to use a mindtrain header (or any header for that matter). Mindtrain does make a race header adapter to go with the race header. These two pieces would directly replace the manifold and all three stock cats. It will bolt up to your cat back system. The header adapter is a dual pipe setup with expansion chambers to minimize noise while maximizing flow. The header adaptor sells for $329. The race header and adaptor are good for a ~25hp gain. I hope this helps."

So basically they want me to spend money on the header, and then they want me to invest even more in a pipe to go from the header to the catback.. Roughly $550.00 for header and a mindtrain race pipe - talk about a major kick in the nuts there...

Guess I'll just have to wait until I'm ready to spend that kind of money on a header and a freaking 14" pipe

 

Well, they do have a point. Nobody makes a header the same size as the stock manifold, because it wouldnt make any more power than the stock manifold. Nobody makes a header that bolts to a stock convertor, because not many people are gonna pay 300 bucks for a part that'll give them a whopping 4hp (with cats still intact).

If you dojnt like the high price of teh header adaptor (midpipe I would call it) then have your own fabbed up...it's just a stinkin piece of pipe. Bolt up the header, bolt up the catback, and have a shop stick a pipe in between adn weld it up. This shouldnt cost more than $100, I usually get it done for $60. Here, so long as your car comes in to the shop with no convertors, theyll run whatever you want...so long as they dont have to take one OFF. If you bring the car to them still stock they wont even look at it unless you're buying new convertors for it too.

 

I just posted about this is another thread..go read. Hyp. is right, it would be a pointless product.

 

Well after reading that , yes I see the point. I just can't see or justify the high cost of the midpipe they are trying to sell... I mean, if it had like super high flow cats maybe 330ish is worth it, but I dont know

 

OK, either myself or you are confused. See, what Im saying is that cats and flow/power do not go together. You generally either have one or the other, you have emissions-compliant or you have power/flow setup.

So what we're saying is that if youre gonna bother spending money trying to gain FLOW/POWER, why are you talking about going right back against yourself by keeping cats?

By the same token, that's why they charge so much for their race pipe. Because it provides the largest possible gain, by removing all cats.

So you'd pay the same amount of money for less of a hp gain??

 

I think we're both confused by each other..

The header itself is $190 from them..

Now they said that hte header adapter kit they have is $330 or so..

Now the Bonez Race pipe is only $160.00 bucks for strait pipe from manifold to catback >

How do these people get off making me pay $300 + for the same product? :\

 

Something you might wanna try, It's pretty cheap too

I'm gonna be going with the RB Roadrace header down to a custom collector. Then i'm gonna take my bonez super flow cat, cut off the "Presilencer" portion to where the collector lines up and then put some flanges on the cat and the collector. I'ts gonna be interesting to see how it does. I'm probably gonna buy a regular CS catback, cut the taper off and weld a new 3inch pipe in it's place (again using more flanges).

In this setup fitment is really important, cause if it doesn't line up right it's not gonna be worth a damn since you'll have lots of exhaust leaking out at the flanges.

Honestly, you really need a cat replacement anyway and bonez makes a great product. It's gonna boost your stock HP and you can retain your stock exhaust manifold.

OR you can go with a road race uncollected unit and presilencer from RB for 350 or so.

My setup is gonna run like 134 for the header + shipping and 50 bucks worth of welding from a friend. Then what ever the CS exhaust will be on top of that. I plan on going carb when I do my rebuild so I'm not gonna need much on the emmissions side of things. like o2 sensors

Edit: I forgot to add: I'm gonna run the second portion of the superflow system which is technically a cat just to make it a little quieter at the expensive of some power.