RETed

I'll still stick to my experiences...

Stock CHRA, even with brand new carbon seals, don't last very longer over 15psi.

We've rebuild a number of stock FC CHRA's, and they all puke oil running over 15psi.&nbsp If your turbo is reliable over 15psi, then good for you...

Tear-down of all these stock FC turbos shows that the carbon seal usually chips.&nbsp I'm not claiming this is going to be always the case, but from what I've seen, this is usually what fails.

I've also seen the rear c-clip leak oil from the turbine side when running over 15psi.&nbsp I've puked two CHRA's back-to-back like this recently.&nbsp This causes lots of oil smoke from the exhaust, but does not foul spark plugs or leave lots of oil in the intake/intercooler piping.

This is what I've gone through - you can take this all with a grain of salt, as you should do with all information from the web...



-Ted

FEDREX

Thanks for all the info guys..I think in considering consensus opinion, I'll set my hi boost to 14 (once I have a boost controller, AIC).

Roger at JapTrix suggested after the turbo and fuel upgrades to set the Profec B to 9psi low and 14psi high. Ted says don't go over 15 - so 14 sounds good...not just for the turbo, but considering the engine as well.

I have a couple questions though...

1. At this point would it be better to change out my Bonez 2.5" dp and mp for a 3" set-up such as Corksport?

2. Also, what to do about the OEM pipe between the dp and mp? (not interested in Thunder fabrications)

3. I'm mainly about from-a-roll kills and I'd like to get an idea what type vehicles this set-up will get me in the range of? What cars will I pull on the freeway? If I could give a regular 345hp C-5 a decent run or pull a WS-6 that would be good.

TBoost

I have a question for Ted.

Ted, I bought a T04E-57 trim from Performance Techniques and put it on the car. With the turbine wastegate bored out, and NO boost controller, my car is seriously over-coming the wastegate hole!!! When I punch it at a really low rpm in 4th gear, the wastegate is able to control the boost and I get a constant 6psi. As the rpms begin to build up to 4k, the boost needle just climbs and climbs and climbs. I don't know where the needle will settle off at but I stop accelerating at 15psi. It was only dyno tuned for 10psi (no air in the intercooler, so it didn't creep drastically then). The dyno chart clearly shows the creep because the HP figures never settle...the HP just continues to climb..

Have a look..

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~mrowle1/m...yno_7.5psi.jpg

My question: I want to control this creep with the least amount of money spent. Do I need to order the external wastegate and wield it on?

-M

RETed

Before I answer your question, that's some super nice power!&nbsp Just by looking at your dyno sheet, I can tell you're running staggered fuel injectors or way too much fuel.&nbsp The power curve dips way too much in the center, between the fuel injectors crossover point at around 3,500RPM all the way up to 5,000RPM.&nbsp I also see ignition break-up starting around 6kRPM all the way up till you lift off; you running bad plugs during this run?

Are you saying you got a T04E-57 compressor upgrade?&nbsp How much did you enlarge the wastegate hole?



-Ted

FEARED7

Hey ReTED,
The Turbine piston ring shouldn't leak oil. That ring has a certain gap, if it is w/ in spec and the bearing housing Seal Bore is strait, It will not leak oil. That ring gap also has to be clocked a certain way, or the level of the oil inside the bearing housing will rise above the gap and puke out the exhaust. If the gap is tight and the bore is good, then if it still smokes check the oil drain for slope and then if that doesn't fix it, then restrict the oil feed. Done that several times fixing my cars
later on.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

FEARED7

oh yeah. I have taken apart many many many HT12 and 18 turbos and none of the carbon seals were cracked or chipped. I took apart 5 about 4 days ago.

TBoost

****! I wish I could take my car to your shop! You are right, I can see what you are talking about. Dave at KDRotary (in Penn) dyno tuned the car. He intentionally left it rich to compensate for "unforeseen" circumstances. The lamdas were in the 11s, but the 720cc secondaries were maxing out above 6krpm (because of the fuel being turned up). I have a Haltech computer in the car.

The ignition coils were fine (when we tested them with a timing light). Maybe the fuel fouled out the plugs?

I have the T04e-57 compressor upgrade. I don't know how much they enlarged the wastegate hole, but they did port the hole.

Below are my list of mods..

dra_gon_lee

damn, your making very good power! would i have the same results with a t04 60-1 upgrade, 2 550 primaries, 2 720 secondaries, 2 additional 720's, and a FCONS controlling everything? also a crane ignition box on the leading... i only want to run 9-10psi

TBoost

Thanks for the complements, however, it is troublesome since the car isn't behaving as it should. Which usually means more money..

That much fuel may not be necessary since you are running 9-10psi.

The FCON isn't a good solution for controlling the upgraded turbos, but I'm biased!

-M

RETed

That's a good point.&nbsp The reason why I brought that up cause we had a turbo we rebuilt (not thoroughly cleaned) that was taken off a car that was smoking profusely!&nbsp We did a standard T04 rebuild kit.&nbsp When we slapped the turbo back on the car, it still smoked!&nbsp We tore it back down and couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong with it!&nbsp We finally figured out that enough crud has gotten into the groove that is was preventing that piston ring from seating properly!&nbsp Cleaned to groove and the smoking stopped!



-Ted

RETed

I'd estimate you're losing at least 20hp at around 4,400RPM!&nbsp Those ranges are most of your cruising ranges, so once you get rid of all the extra fuel in there, the car is going to feel a LOT stronger in daily driving.


How old are the spark plugs?


That would explain it.&nbsp Someone posted the flared the hole out so it's larger on the opposite side of the flapper.&nbsp I back-cut all my wastegate ports...
http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/MODS/TURBO/wg.htm



-Ted

TBoost

Ok, so if I'm losing that much HP, then I need to definitely retune the car. Do you know of anyone reputable in the Bay Area that can dyno tune a Haltech proficiently? I know that it will take a long time because every single rpm range has to be tuned properly.

Before I tune it again, I need to know whether to go ahead and get the external wastegate or see if PT did back-cutting on the wastegate hole. I don't think it will do much difference since the creep is way too high (over 9psi over stock).

Thanks for the advice,

-M

Felix Wankel

They must have not done something. Bryan built my turbo (H3, ported wastegate, clipped turbine) and it wouldn't go over 6 psi with no boost controller.

FEDREX

Highest I've seen on mine so far is 10.5-11psi in 4th, but it was a pretty cold nite. On average, I hit 8-9.5 in 3rd and about 9-10 in 4th.
(that's with stage III t/w 8 degree clip and to4e-46)

TBoost

I understand your concerns, but both of you have smaller compressor wheels than my turbo. It is quite possible that the wastegate is being overcome THAT drastically because of the power output of the 57-trim.

I'll call some shop here in the Bay Area and see if they can help..

-M

dra_gon_lee

Hey, thats just part of having a FC, and i might upgrade or run more boost later on thats y i want that much fuel, i don't have to control both addition injectors, and can run the secondaries at a lower flow rate. Also, I'm not talking about the current generation Fcon I'm talking about the new Fcon-S, its able to be tuned for bigger turbos, 2 addtional injectors, has a built in f.c.d, and built in speed limiter cut, and you can fine tune the fuel and ignition maps... Its alot better than the old fcon, for about the same price, and you never know what deals you can find on the net....

TBoost

In computing fuel, you must keep in mind that the engine only sees the air/fuel ratio. It doesn't matter what fuel additions you have. Having said that, the extra injectors probably aren't necessary if you just upgrade the secondaries to be a lot bigger (and revamp the fuel rail to support them). The problem is that you may not be able to control/monitor the duty cycle of th injectors (i.e. Haltech).

I don't know about the HKS F-CONs, but if its a piggy back, then its only good for mild mods. Going with a T04E 57 or above trim might be ok if you are running moderately low boost, but raising the boost up to 15psi or higher will require a modded fuel system and engine management system (in my opinion).

-M

Poindexter10thae

iTrader: (2)

Got a question about fitment.

Willl a TO4e compressor fit on the stock manifold and clear the intake manifold if you "clock" the turbo slightly? What is the procedure for clocking the turbo?

Also, will a h3 and h4 housing fit just fine without modifications?

Dustin Setayesh

BNR Supercars is a good place to call. I got some core motors for Brian a week ago and met him then. He has been advising me on my 90' turbo II. He is very expecrienced and honest. I trust his turbo setups to the fullest. If you do buisness with him you won't regret it.
90' Turbo II fresh JDM
Various GXL's

P.S. I have JDM motors pretty cheap email me.

RETed

There are 6 bolts that hold in 3 "tabs" on the back-side of the compressor housing holding it onto the backing plate.&nbsp Loosen the bolts and the compressor housing will turn.&nbsp Now, it gets a bit tricky after this, since the wastegate actuator is mounted on two of those 6 bolts - you need to figure out something so the actuator works while slightly skewing it from it's original positon.


If you got the compressor wheel and compressor housing, it should all drop in.&nbsp This cannot guarantee you the whole rotating assembly is balanced - I really recommend sending this out to a shop to get everything balanced.&nbsp This goes into extending longevity...



-Ted

TBoost

Ted,

I tuned down the fuel maps in the mid range (3500rpm-5500rpm) between boost pressures 1-5psi. I also lowered the vaccum pressure fuel maps too because they were way up (even though they are using the primaries). Now, when I drive the car and just go into 1-3psi of boost and hold the throttle there, I don't get any hesitation. It has smoother acceleration down low. However, without a dyno, I really can't test what HP gains I'm getting (if any at all).

This still doesn't solve the problem with the wastegate, but I've decided to try and find a 89-91 turbo and manifold. If anything, those 2 holes should be enough to keep it relatively tame.

Btw, yesterday I punched it in 2nd gear and the boost only went to 8psi. It was HOT yesterday though...this definitely points to boost creep control..

Looking at the dyno chart, do you propose that I can make 300RWHP @12psi?

-M

RETed

Hard to say if it'll hit 300, but it'll get very close...

I dunno under what condition you were running on the dyno, so it's hard to give you an actual assement on what can or cannot be done.

You might not make any more peak power, but you'll gain a lot of power in the midrange leaning out those maps!


-Ted