g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Starting to plan out my turbo build. Looking to turn the car into a DD drag car. I've heard the Hurley race seals are good for running really high boost, but I was surfing their site and ran across these.

http://www.hurleyrotary.com/page.php...ntpageref=6263

Anyone know if their actually any good? They state that they ran them in their rotary race bike.

Do any of the rotary people producing good power recommend these? How badly do they wear the housings?

Thanks for the info in advance!

dawicka2

Looks like the rotor needs to be machined for the part that makes contact with the housing. But other than that, huh. I have never seen this before. Interesting design.

John ny

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

That design looks horrible. Just get stock OEM seals.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Mazda tried and threw this design away more then 50 years ago.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Alright, thanks guys! No swing seals, got it.

And I'm trying to veer away from the oem seals because im looking to be running a lot of boost. Are their some seals that are better for higher boost? i.e.: 2mm vs 3mm, steel vs ceramic, cryo treating if possible?

I got a deal on a precision SC6162 from a really good friend. Don't know if I should keep it and make a build around it or sell it to add to funds for the build and get a turbo that will match the motors capabilities better.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

If you have thousands to spend on NRS ceramics, new rotors and new housings (because you wouldn't put a $1000+ seal in a warn rotor and housing would you?) that is the best route to go, but stock seals will be fine for what ever you think "high boost" is.

PS, What turbine housing is on the turbo?

need RX7

iTrader: (4)

OEM seals are good enough for basically anything. I'd use the OEM ones on just about anything, unless it was a full race car that sees redline and high boost the majority of it's life.

psychotic7

stock seals are the best when it comes to longevity of the rotor housings. they arent too harsh on them and can handle an *** load of boost but if youre hellbent on going for a more stiff aftermarket seal then rotary aviation super seals would be my choice. get the RA apex seals and OEM everything else with the exception of 3rd gen side and corner seal springs

statique

iTrader: (15)

Pts seals bro all the way....

need RX7

iTrader: (4)

That's still OEM

psychotic7

^^ It doesnt go into the FC as original equipment so for an FC its not OEM lol but still made by Mazda so we are both right!!....for street use of aftermarket seals ive only had experience with RA(friend had some) and Atkins and both were great for DD

need RX7

iTrader: (4)

Ha, I was just messing around, I know what you meant.

So about those Hurley seals, what is the idea behind those? The design just doesn't seem like it would work well and it looks like it would wear the housings worse. Has anyone around here used them?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

How much is a lot of boost?

The OEM seals are fine for almost any application.

3MM is not appreciably stronger then 2MM.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Well, I really am looking to put a decent amount into the motor all by itself. Aiming to spend between 3-4.5 for a motor build including porting and assembly. Looking to spend 8-1200 just on some decent race seals.

I'm aiming for these exact specs in the motor:
S5 keg
S4 rotors
Large SP / HBP
E-shaft oil mod
ported oil passages

How badly will my drivability suffer with this car? i.e. idle/gas mileage/shifting. The only thing I have to compare it to is one of my parents friends race evo. Drove it around for about a week with straight cut gears and a unsprung race clutch. Worst DD car ever..

I plan to bolt it all up to a stock turbo drivetrain. Just a upgraded clutch and maybe hardened rear end.

And i think the turbo is a T4 .58 with a T04E cover.


And to Aaron Cake, once I get the car tuned and running, I'm aiming for around 18-21 lbs of boost on a DD car. I want to have something I can take to the track, beat the **** out of, then drive it home.


Thanks for the help everyone! I really appreciate it!

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Pump gas? Is that .58 the turbine AR?

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

well normally drag and DD aren't used in the same sentance but if you want lots of boost I would go with black seals. These seals usually bend before breaking that way if anything happens to them they don't USUALLY **** up your housings. They can also take more boost than the stock seals.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

There is a huge difference between a "large" street port and a bridgeport.

Unnecessary.

It depends on what porting you choose.

More specs on the turbo? Tell me that .58 is not the hot side.

Why do you want to run that much boost? Pick a turbo that makes power at a lower boost level. How much power do you want?

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Yes and yes. I want to be able to DD this car on 93.


I want something that won't be unbelievably hard to DD. I only live about a 2 miles from my work so when I'm not there, I'm out playing in the car (horray nice gas prices)


A pretty reputable local shop told me it'd be for the better since their the ones building the motor and putting it all together for me. They said the only down side is that I might want to set my idle higher because of the lower oil pressure at idle.


Again, I'm aiming for drivability. I want something I can drive to break, but then go home, have a good night sleep knowing it'll fire up again in the morning.


http://www.streetlegendtuning.com/pr...roductid=16209
This is the exact turbo. T4 .58 A/R


I'm not super familiar with boosted rotaries so I dont know what pressure is going to make what hp. I'm aiming for a 400-450hp street car, no more, no less. Is their another turbo that would be better for this application? Possibly a BNR Stage 4?

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

I hope you're planing on using two of those turbos.

Gene

iTrader: (1)

As someone who has been taking his Turbo II to the track for many years now, I can tell you that you're asking for trouble. I'd recommend doing a 20B with no boost at all, or just small boost. You'll spend more at first but save on blown motors over the years. If I had it to do all over again I'd build a 20B non-turbo as my street/DE/TT car.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Down at the bottom you mention 400-450 HP. In my opinion, that's right on the borderline for where you should consider a bridgeport. The main reason is that going to a bridge will all but eliminate turbo lag at that HP range. The downside of a bridgeport is that your fuel economy is going to go into the crapper and it's far harder to tune. The idle can get annoying to some people and you'll have to upsize the turbo.

I'd suggest a GT35R with a 1.0 hotside. You'll make 400 HP or so right around 16 PSI and it will respond very well with a street port.

For more power with the boost levels sane, the GT4088R is the next step up. At that point I would say to move to a bridgeport and go with the 1.15 hotside. At around 14 PSI that will put down 400HP. Bump it to 16-18 PSI and you're damn near 500.

That's a pretty big downside. In my experience, TII engines should not experience much of a pressure drop. It will drop an NAs oil pressure down to sub 10s at idle. HOWEVER it's not a necessary modification. It's mainly for engines operated at high loads at high RPMs. It won't be of major benefit on the street.

Street port. However you are aware that you will need a total fuel system replacement, full standalone, and all associated upgrades, right?

That thing is a pea shooter for Civics! You're talking about a .58 T4. The smallest T4 hotside you should ever look at for a 13B is .84, and even that is going to be a cork in the exhaust well before 6000 RPM.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately. The sound of a fast boosted 13B is music to my ears and isn't that hard. 20B would be amazing, but it would honestly be a project that I would get 1/2 way done with and not be able to finish. It'd be a sad sight...

Ok. I think I'm going to stick to the streetport for the fuel economy. It is going to be a DD car after all.

I was wondering about the 35R as a lot of the FD guys run them, wasn't 100% sure though.

Is it bad to spool a 35R around 16-20 psi? That 40R sounds like it might be a bit big for me...



Hmm. Ok, so basically, if this car isn't going to be raced only, i.e. dozens of redlines a day, the mod isnt necessary?



Yes, The shop thats doing my motor is also doing the wiring harness. He's very good with microtechs so I think I'm going to be going that direction. And the new fuel system I can do myself.


Well that would make sense that it only cost me 250$ from one of my buddies that just blew up his honda...

Thanks for the info Aaron! I really owe you!

Gene

iTrader: (1)

Oh, I know. I love the sound of my car at full song with the Apexi N1 and only 8PSI, especially in a tunnel. I'm just worried about the long term reliability of a super high boost car for track use. What are you using it for? HPDE? Time Trials? How much experience do you have on track so far?

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, it is a truely awesome sound. As stated earlier, I want the car to be a Drag/DD car. It's purely for fun, nothing super extreme.

I have track experience, but not much. Mostly drag and some drift. Drove a 11 second car down the track, rode in a 9. Have slid my friends 240 around the OSW bank and through the x a few times. Other than that, all street experience. I wouldn't label myself a novice though.


I've been looking up different front mounts and I think I may be going AI. Would water or methenol injection with no intercooler be safe to run 24/7? I've seen it done before. Obviously I'm aiming for the water injection more since running meth 24/7 would start to get REALLY expensive...

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

16-20 PSI is a big range. At 16 PSI on pump fuel you should be fine. Around 20 PSI is where you get into issues and many people turn to AI. My opinion is that if you're looking at running the turbo at 20 PSI, go to a larger turbo. The 35R should be putting out 400HP well before 20 PSI.

Exactly.

A Microtech is a good direction to go and is very reliable, as long as you know the limitations. Be aware that the biggest limitation of the ECU (and I find the most absolutely annoying) is that you cannot save maps to disk.

Bingo.

Some do run nothing but AI, but I suggest you stick with an intercooler. You may find that on the street you want to run a bit less boost, but then run on the track with more boost and AI enabled. That's probably a very good way to go.