Syonyk

I've driven some scattered newer cars (RX-8 comes to mind as an example of what I'm talking about), and one thing that I've noticed is that, for the most part, brakes feel absolutely wonderful compared to what I'm used to.

High, firm pedal, with an insane amount of braking power available.

I know that in some cases, this is due to electronic gizmos pre-pressurizing the brake system & some other stuff, but... it has to be doable on a FC.

Thoughts I had on making a wonderful feeling brake system for a FC:

Larger master cylinder. I've heard the 929 master cylinder works perfectly for this.
SS brake lines to eliminate any stretch
Good brake pads that aren't squishy (I was thinking of putting Hawks on)
Careful adjustment of the booster pushrod (I don't have the tools for this, so I'll have to get some) to eliminate any play
Complete bleeding of the system. Is a pressure or vacuum bleeder significantly better than the "standard" methods?


Anything else I'm not thinking of?

-=Russ=-

CyborgRyu

iTrader: (8)

Replace Caliper's & Rotors, Stainless Steel Brake lines, newer or performance brake pads, bleed the lines. Replace/tighten e-brake cable.

Icemark

New booster and rebuilt master, new soft lines, rebuild the calipers, good aftermarket pads... all replaced, will give you a like new feel...

Hmm but at that point it is all new. Funny that.

ilike2eatricers

I highly suggest the 929 MC upgrade. I've done it and never looked back. Night and day difference.

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

Why the hell is there no information on the FC 929 swap? ilike2eatricers can you give any info on this?

I've seen a couple writeups for the FD 929 swap but not one for an FC.

First gen man

iTrader: (24)

What year 929 master?
Are they better than the FC masters?
Does it bolt to the non-turbo and turbo brake booster?
Also has anyone gotten any gains out of using a turbo brake booster, over an non-turbo?

ilike2eatricers

I forget what years of 929 MC work but search 3rd gen section as it is a common upgrade.

Stock T2 cylinder bore is 15/16"
929 is 1"

Things you'll need:
-929 MC from compatible year (search for it I'm too lazy)
- 2 1/8" NPT to banjo bolt adapters (you can find these on FC ABS systems or also on FD ABS systems and probably some other applications)
- new copper crush washers for the banjo bolt adapters
- short length of new brake line with 1/8" NPT fittings already on it (can find at kragen or any other local auto parts shop, I think I used about 8-10" long line very cheap just a few bucks).
-good pipe bender (since you'll need to bend this new brake line but if you're careful you can use your hands)
-you'll need to bleed your brakes
-you'll need to adjust the pedal play in the brake pedal so they dont drag and eliminate extra play

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. It's pretty straight forward. Longest amount of time was spent adjusting the brake pedal play and experimenting to get it to where you think it feels right for you. The 929 MC pushes alot more fluid so the pedal play is affected and is normally recommended for those who upgrade to a BBK (big brake kit with bigger calipers) to help push extra fluid needed in the bigger calipers. I've done it with stock t2 calipers and I'm totally satisfied with the results. Driving at the track is way more fun when you can stop much faster

Syonyk

So you can definitely feel the difference? That's good to hear.

Essentially, I'm working to get my brake system up to spec for some hard track day stuff. Long-term, I'm looking to do a full turbo drivetrain swap, standalone, and be pushing ~400HP to the wheels. I'd rather have the rest of the stuff (brakes, suspension, etc) ready before that.

The goal is to be able to repeatedly stop at the traction limit with really, really sticky tires, from very high speeds. Right now, I can lock up all 4. I don't think I could accomplish that with ultra sticky tires, especially not from 100+mph. So, I'm looking to get my brakes up to spec for that.

-=Russ=-

ilike2eatricers

Yea the braking system is significantly better. I would upgrade/repair all other brake components first before upgrading the MC. good pads, good fluid (ATE super blue), stainless braided lines, and a good bleed. No need to upgrade rotors in my opinion. Once my powerslots wear down I'm gonna move on to brembo blanks.

1300ccTuner

are autozone rotors good?

go_jesse

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, I have a base model 86, with hawk black (racing) pads and stock rotors, with 205/50-15 Toyo RA-1s (quite sticky - treadwear 100) for the track and I can lock up the wheels at will.

I get a lot more pedal travel than I would like before the brakes grab, but I think my brake booster doesn't work under load.

ShadowX

I upgraded my stock Mazda pads to Porterfield RS-4s and I swear it felt like I upgraded the whole brake system. Ofcourse, I had decent fluid, proper working component and ss lines, but the feel the brakes was completely different. Stiffer pedal, better bite, etc...

eyeoutthere

Good question. I used to think that all brake rotors were the same. I now believe that to be false.

I have Hawk pads and Autozone rotors on my 86 and I am not impressed. The brakes are weak and lack bite.

I also recently installed Autozone rotors on my winter beater (97 Saturn). The rotors were the ONLY thing I changed and the braking force decreased significantly. I don’t know what was on there previously, but they performed much better than the Autozone replacements.

I don’t go through enough rotors to make a conclusive decision but the above experiences are enough to place the Autozone rotors in suspect. The next set of rotors I purchase for my RX7 will be from a reputable company. If performance increases, I will no for sure that Autozone rotors blow hermaphrodite donkey *****.

Project88Turbo

iTrader: (22)

If you got their Valuecraft rotors, they are their economy rotors. They have less mass to them and it takes MUCH less energy to heat them up compared to the factory or good quality rotors. The same is true about rotors that are well worn or turned, since they are thinner and have less mass. Once they get hot enough, it begins to effect braking performance because the pads begin to outgas (correct term?) and no longer have the same coefficient of friction.

Also, there are only 2 FC Brake boosters:
1) 4-piston caliper setup (turbo & na)
2) Non 4-piston caliper setup (na only)

There are several FC Master cylinders:
4-Piston W/ABS W/O AAS
4-Piston W/ABS W/AAS
4-Piston W/O ABS W/AAS
4-Piston W/O ABS W/O AAS
Non 4-Piston W/ABS
Non 4-Piston W/O ABS

Just my .02

Vince

JeffForSale!

if only it were so simple

i went to a pep boys and they talked about all this hard suspension crap
i figured since i had a turbo II maybe the hard suspension was just 4 piston brakes

was i in for a suprise..

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I can attest to this working, as I just did it, and deleted the ABS pump while I was at it since it leaked like a mother. Brake pedal is stiff and High, best I've ever felt. Only thing is I didn't replace the booster, just everything else.

One other important thing is to use new pad hardware, and make sure none of the pistons in the calipers are frozen.

Tournapart

iTrader: (4)

www.buybrakes.com get the PowerSlot Slotted Rotors, you will never buy anything else for an OEM application the price is almost as good as an OEM rotor from autozone or kragen

Syonyk

Hm. I didn't think about the pads being a problem. They're generic Autozone stuff IIRC. BrakeBest, maybe. I guess I didn't think about them being responsible for feel as much, but it makes sense - if they're soft, they'll compress & require more travel to do anything.

-=Russ=-

Project88Turbo

iTrader: (22)

The trouble is the people behinde the counter rarely know how to read the listings to get you the proper parts. I work @ Advance Auto and it amazes me that some of my coworkers choose to work at an autoparts store when they no little to nothing about cars.

The other trouble is the electronic parts catalogs often are not differentiated by particular trim models and it further confuses things.
I.E. Eibach Springs for a 99 Cobra: W/IRS or W/O IRS? (99 & up Cobras only came w/IRS).
FC Turbo Brakes: w/Hard suspension or w/o Hard suspension? (Turbo only came w/Hard suspension)
U-Joints for ANY Ford pickup after 1978: 7 pages of possibilities.

Anyways, if the people behind the counter have a clue (which is rare), it is really simple, get the parts for a Turbo model brakes as Hard suspension and you should do well.

If anyone has trouble getting the right parts from an autoparts store, please PM me with your needs. I will give you the correct part numbers to use so you can skip the morons behind the counter.

Vince

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

there's two things really being described in this thread:
1) Brake system performance in terms of stopping distance.
2) Brake system "feel"

now the first item i think is fine on these cars, i recently put on rebuilt TII calipers front and rear, and new OEM TII rotors front and rear. stopping distance is adequate.

the second item, however, is hard to describe. sure, you can lock up your tires and stop fast enough, but what Syonyk mentioned about the difference in new cars is something that will be hard to get. the fact is every car will feel different, and an RX-8 is almost two decades newer than an FC. actually if you look at things like the calipers on the RX-8, they are using single piston calipers stock.
but that's not the whole story. there are other aspects of the brake system that i'm sure are much improved to give better "feel". i'm tired now so i will stop blabbing on....

929 MC sounds like good idea though

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I really wish the pedal on my FC "felt" better.

it's got awesome brakes but the pedal feels like poo. I've still got ABS and it's not going anywhere.

I've bled the system several times and still, it feels awful.

JeffForSale!

i figured hard suspension either meant abs or 4 piston calipers

i have a turbo II without ABS, but i insisted on ordering a brake master cylinder for a turbo with "hard suspension"

it come with an extra hole in the bottom

had to exchange it, but maybe that's just because i didnt have abs?