Howi

iTrader: (2)

hey everyone!!

just wondering how many of you have had busted brake and fuel lines on your fc's. if so, how did you guys go about fixing it?

i really, REALLY wanna travel to japan just so i can find the idiot engineer why the hell did he (or she) run those damn lines outside of the car as oppose to inside....

Mr. Gadget

PB Buster and very very small movement untill the line breaks free. Back and forth. Sometimes slightly tightening a frozen nut is easier and breaks the nut loose.

Mr. Gadget

Oh, and I'll be in Japan next month, have a message you want me to pass along??

Howi

iTrader: (2)

no no no...
i meant the actual hydraulic hard lines that carries the fuilds from the front to back and vise versa, not just the connectors....

Howi

iTrader: (2)

ya.. please...

tell the idiot that even a honda civic has hydraulic lines in the inside of the car.....

give him a bitch slap and ask if he has any idea how many people around the world have wasted numerous hours running brand new lines.... and it's all because of him.... freakin moron....

i wonder how he ever finished school and became an engineer w/out knowing that steel rusts....

c-squared

In the event of a accident, and a hard fuel line ruptures and the pump stays on, do you really want the line running in the interior?

What is the problem with running brake lines outside the car? Seems logical to me.

No, I have never broke one. If I did, I would cut and flare new lines.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

All cars and trucks I've seen are like this.

Icemark

Standard industry practice to run brake and fuel lines on the underside of the car for 50 years.

What sort of moron would want fluid lines running through the interior... not someone that ever wanted to survive an accident I guess.

I know I hope I am never in a car that has lines running through the interior... just image what would happen if a brake line broke inside in an accident and brake fluid sprayed all over you. Have you seen what brake fluid eats through???

boosted1205

iTrader: (9)

Exactly. Why would you want them running inside of the car? Brake fluid eats through practically everything when left unattended and well, fuel.... no moron would run it inside the car.
By the way, the lines aren't steel. It's aluminum. And no they don't rust.

RETed

Did someone say moron?


-Ted

Howi

iTrader: (2)

well.... you guys provided some good points that i acknowledge

but these are my arguments:

1) there are smart places to run lines in the interior, i.e. close to the center of the car. if an accident happened, and it was so severe that the lines near the center of the car was damaged..... i really don't think, in that situation, whether it'd matter if the lines are above or below the sheet metal

2) industrial standards are simply what has been happening, it doesn't mean that they can't be changed or they shouldn't be changed (sorry, i don't really consider this an argument in this discussion. it's like the old saying "if all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?")

4) most importantly though, the reason why i feel so strongly about this is because a good friend of mine just recently purchased an '88 fc. on the day of purchase, my friend was lucky enough that the car didn't come w/ a plate. because of that, he couldn't drive it home. well, shortly after he had towed it home (the next day_, he was servicing the brakes. the brakes were perfect for only 2 stomps on the pedal, then went to the floor. we found out that it was because the line was rusted through and was squirting oil everywhere. now, here's the question: do you think it's better to have his lines outside the car and crash it on the way home, or have his lines inside the car and risk having some spill in a case of a major accident?

3) for the people who think that i'm a moron, please spare some time and look underneath your car and find those lines. please let me know if they're rusting. i'm sure you'll find some "aluminum" that rusts

sorry about the long thread.... give me some feedbacks please

thanks guys!

Howi

iTrader: (2)

oh ya.... my friend picked up the fc from a place that's 3 hours drive from him home, i'm quite certain that the brake lines would have failed if he had attempted to drive it home. just the thought of the brakes failing while he goes 120km/h on the highway gives me the creeps.....

this is main reason why i'm 100% for lines in the car

RETed

A *LOT* of how cars are build is not solely dependent on safety and engineering.&nbsp Sure, the (safety) engineers will offer their opinions and feedback on where to put certain things, *BUT* it's the accountants that dictate if its a go or no.&nbsp The fuel and brake lines are a good example of this...

Safety regulations (US DOT, German TUV, etc.) dictate fuel lines not be run inside the vehicle - this is obvious when you look at a potential leak either causing passengers to knock out or instant fireball (people smoking, electrical switches producing sparks, etc.).&nbsp Now, you can overengineer the whole safety factor, but that will just drive the cost of producing the car.&nbsp This is where the accountants will dictate where and what materials to use.&nbsp You also need to factor in (easy) accessibility in case you need to "service" such items either due to maintenance, inspection, and/or replacement due to an accident.



-Ted

Kai

No, they don't. I have an '87 Si as a beater, and it has external lines. The 92-95's I have worked on have external lines, and all the other newer and older models do too.

If you don't realize how dangerous it is to run flammible liquids through the passenger compartment, you have a lot of learning to do. That engineer you hate so much has probably saved many lives.

That aside, my old '80 RX-7 was rusted absolutely everywhere... except for the underbody hardlines. It sounds like your friend's new car has some serious issues.

Howi

iTrader: (2)

absolutely.
that's exactly why i'm on this forum.
why don't you present me some points like other forum members do as oppose to telling that i need to learn?
i'd appreciate any feedback/argument.

the key word here is "probably"
do you have any facts to back up this statement?
all i know is that my friend could have killed himself because of this "engineer", or "safety regulation", or whatever you call it.
that's a fact i know, that's why i oppose this.

one last thing.....
i'm really starting to wonder if cars run brakelines differently in the US and canada.
i live in canada, and all the civics i've seen here have hardlines in the cabin.
and my friend's car's hardlines are rusted to ****.... probably due to the harsh winters here... perhaps....

anyways, please keep feeding back.
i'm very curious about this topic and would like to know what others feel, although it seems like everyone favours their lines on the outside so far....

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Dude. Don't beat a dead horse.

Icemark

Too bad your buddy didn't have enough sense to pay to have a professional check out the car before purchasing it.

One person failing to properly check and/or fix a car would hardly be reason to submit millions of people to the potential hazards to running fluid lines through the car.

Quote:

3) for the people who think that i'm a moron, please spare some time and look underneath your car and find those lines. please let me know if they're rusting. i'm sure you'll find some "aluminum" that rusts

sorry about the long thread.... give me some feedbacks please

thanks guys!

Very very rare to see those brake lines corroded enough to leak on any properly maintained car (FC or otherwise) unless the car as been subject to harsh weather conditions and the lines have been damaged from off-road type conditions with impacts from rocks, of other abrasive materials or an major accident. Remember the outside of the lines are covered with a sealing coating. Of course if the brake fluid was never changed, it is hydroscopic, and could corrode from the inside out... but that would happen regardless of if the lines were run inside the car or outside the car.

But, why so many cars and trucks built for the last 50 years have them on the outside? They are that way, because it works. Heck some car companies that build rear and mid-engined cars even put air conditioning lines under the body.

If severe corrosion was that big of a deal on lines running under the body, manufactures would change it.

Go back to your Honda (if you are convinced that it does run fluid lines through the body) and look underneith, and count the number of lines running front to rear or are exposed.

Thaniel

I've seen rusty hard lines. My '88 pathfinder has spent it's life in Michigan and has rust everwhere. Even on the lines. I've thought of replacing the lines and probably will if I keep it much longer (the fuel lines look the worse).

If they get rusty then replace them and let it go another 10-15 years.

Icemark

Yeah, but minor cosmetic corrosion on the outside is one thing, but enough corrosion that they are leaking is another.

Are your pathfinder lines (brake or fuel) leaking because of the corrosion??? I think not.

rrewq

My 86 has a rusted fuel line. It is leaking fuel. I've also seen the same problem on a first generation MR2.

Pinfield357

i just had to replace a hard brake line on my girl friends 91 grand prix

it broke where it was clipped to the top of the rear axel i think it broke because of that clip rusting through

Kai

Ok, I thought it was pretty obvious. If my car was in a crash severe enough to rupture a gasoline or brake hardline and something happened to ignite it, I would much rather it happened outside the car instead of inside it. After all, the passengers are on the inside. Being squirted by gasoline and caught on fire doesn't sound like much fun.I don't have any facts because I don't know anyone whos car caught on fire in a crash. I say probably for this reason. If your friend is willing to take the risk of driving a car home without inspecting it, it is his fault if he dies. Blaming the person who designed a car based on proven methods and standards is a poor excuse for negligence.I sincerely doubt that. I have yet to see a car with internal gas or brake lines.

One last note, I hope your friend knows how to use the emergency brake. Reasons like this is what it is there for.

dr0x

Never seen brake lines in a car in my life. And I dont know about you, but I brake a lot more than two times between my house and the freeway. If my brakes arent working, ill notice before I get a block away from my house.

If your friend would drive a car with no brakes, especially down a highway, then he deserves to be in a severe accident. Replacement brake lines are like 30$ from Mazda. If they are that questionable and you dont order new ones, darwin is your best friend

Thaniel

I wouldn't call it minor This vehicle has major rust. I put some serious metal into it just to plug all the holes on the floor boards so I could 4x4 and not get water in the vehicle. (the frame still seems good).

But no they are not leaking. Not yet anyway (fingers crossed). I drove it to work today.

Howi

iTrader: (2)

just forget it guys... i give up... don't care anymore....
the discussion isn't going anywhere....

my conclusion for this issue is:

1) some people think brake lines rust, some don't.

2) most people (if not all) think lines should go outside of the car, due to fluid hazards; a few people (if not only myself) think it'd be ok to be inside the car, because it can be done intelligently.

3) most of you have seen lines on the outside of a car, seems like very few cars have them inside.

thank you all for your thoughts and opnion.
this is the first discussion thread i have started, and personally, i didn't really enjoy the way issues are argued by most of the members on this forum. i am NOT saying anything the forum members. it's just not my cup of tea, that's all.

therefore, this will be the last discussion-type thread i'll respond. thanks again for your participation.