Higher Octane is better?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
Like I said previously, say what you want. I know what happens in my cars because I am always in there once if not twice a day pulling things out checking around making sure everything is OK.
If you don't believe me I challenge you to do the test yourself
. It cannot hurt only benefit knowledge. I don't really ever go by statistics. I go by what I observe happening to my vehicles and diagnose from there.
I also do listen to statistics due to their relevancy and somewhat accuracy to a point.Really I challenge anyone here to run the test yourselves. My Dad has the same conclusion so does everyone else I have shown my findings and plugs too. I wish I had a digital camera or I would post them up.
Hey that's cool to each their own.
I'm just not a tight wad with cash even though I don't have much of it. When it comes to my cars nothing but the best is accepted. Performance wise.... I have noticed a difference when pulling hills and in the mountains as far as knocking with my N/A. My FD always has had '93 and sometimes aviation fuel for a treat for both. But I also do it for carbon residue control. I have noticed that when I burn higher octane fuels that there are significantly less carbon deposit build up in my engines. How do I know this? I pull the plugs get a mirror and shine a flash light into the hole.
Really I don't go by what I hear. I go by what I observe happening to my vehicles and make conclusions. I would say you guys should do the same and make conclusions for yourselves instead of arguing about it.
Do a test and post up the conclusions then compare and contrast the data collected.
then you have somethign wrong with your car or it isn't stock for your N/A. in that case you might need the 91.
cause you shouldn't be knocking. hell I run 86 octane at times in full 105-110* temps up a steep old hill where my car comes close to overheating. no knock. so my advice is go fix your car
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
True True. But also leaded fuels clean and bust carbon out of your engine.
I get the unleaded aviation fuel not the low-lead kind.
I get the unleaded aviation fuel not the low-lead kind.
yeah ok so you run leaded fuel to get the carbon out? do you know the kind of deposits that leaded gas in your car? it's nasty no good for some things
Hopeful Future
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
"so what is 105 octane? 105 octane and -5heptane?"
Any octane over a certain rating, and I'm pretty sure its 100, Cannot be achieved without lead additives.
Back during WWII I think, The US Army discovered that they could almost triple the amount of available gas, by adding lead to the current supply they have. Adding lead to a conventional tank of gas multiplies its octane rating well over anything else,which is why anything over 100 has lead additives (at least I think its 100 and over has lead, could be a bit higher). Because there is no other really efficient way to increase the octane rating without adding lead.
Now, you may wonder why those stickers on your car say "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" From my experiences, using leaded gas wont kill your engine, but what it Will kill (smoggers take note) is your Oxygen sensor and Catalytic Converter. It will coat them and render them useless in seconds.
thats why those Octane boosters you see in the gas stations are able to boost the octane, most of them have lead if you check the ingredients.
Any octane over a certain rating, and I'm pretty sure its 100, Cannot be achieved without lead additives.
Back during WWII I think, The US Army discovered that they could almost triple the amount of available gas, by adding lead to the current supply they have. Adding lead to a conventional tank of gas multiplies its octane rating well over anything else,which is why anything over 100 has lead additives (at least I think its 100 and over has lead, could be a bit higher). Because there is no other really efficient way to increase the octane rating without adding lead.
Now, you may wonder why those stickers on your car say "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" From my experiences, using leaded gas wont kill your engine, but what it Will kill (smoggers take note) is your Oxygen sensor and Catalytic Converter. It will coat them and render them useless in seconds.
thats why those Octane boosters you see in the gas stations are able to boost the octane, most of them have lead if you check the ingredients.
Originally Posted by raptor22
The only advantage of higher octane is that is takes more heat to get it burning, so it prevents detonation. That is why higher octane gas can produce more power; the higher heat required allows more boost or compression. However, if you don't need premium gas to prevent knocking, it won't do you any good.
In fact, lower octane gas will burn more completely in a rotary engine, so it may actually be a benefit in itself.
--Alex
In fact, lower octane gas will burn more completely in a rotary engine, so it may actually be a benefit in itself.
--Alex
Correct: the higher the octane the slower it burns to prevent detination, it also alows for higher compression with the risk of detination, the same way water and alcohol injection works
High octane gas will actually make an NA lose power due to the extra energy required to burn the gas, NA's were actually designed around approx 80 octane rated gas, in na's, the lower the better, so 87 is about the best us na guys can run
Its not so much burning completely as burning faster
Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
And what color fuel would that be?
shocking isn't it!Grade 100UL Specification for unleaded (UL) avgas, Standard Specification for Grade 100 Unleaded Aviation Gasoline. Grade 100UL is not a replacement for Grade 100; it is intended only for aircraft piston engines specifically developed to use this unleaded avgas. Some of its important properties are summarized below.
Property Requirement Test Method
Knock value, lean mixture, Motormethod octane number, min 100.0 D 2700
Color Purple D 2392 Distillation, ºC D 86 Volume percent evaporated: 10%, max 70 50%, min 66 50%, max 121 90%, max 190 End point, max 225 Freezing point, ºC, max – 58 D 2386 Vapor pressure, kPa D 4953, D 5190, D 5191, D 5482 Min 38 Max 62
Last edited by '85GSL-SE; Apr 30, 2006 at 01:08 PM.
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
Purple. shocking isn't it!
shocking isn't it!1) Purple is the color of 82UL, and I find it strange that a higher octane product would have the same color. The whole point of coloring AVGAS is to reduce the chance of misfueling.
2) The current flight information publications do not list 100UL at any US airfield.
3) I do not see any ASTM standard for 100UL.
4) I don not see any FAA approval for 100UL.
5) None of the major international fuel vendors list 100UL as a product.
6) One of my job tasks is to monitor international aviation fuel contracts, and I have never heard of 100UL. However, I mostly deal with jet fuel, and I am probably old and out of touch. So, ...
Where did you get this 100UL fuel?
Perhaps it is an additive they add there at the airfield not regulated from the supplier. 
My grand father ownes a B25 Mitchell. He says it takes some pretty heavy fuel.
Greene Aviation. Next Time I'm down there I will get a shot of the pump for you and the colour of the fuel. About 1 hour away from where I live.
My grand father ownes a B25 Mitchell. He says it takes some pretty heavy fuel.
Greene Aviation. Next Time I'm down there I will get a shot of the pump for you and the colour of the fuel. About 1 hour away from where I live.
Last edited by '85GSL-SE; Apr 30, 2006 at 04:35 PM.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
Originally Posted by Tyblat
"so what is 105 octane? 105 octane and -5heptane?"
Any octane over a certain rating, and I'm pretty sure its 100, Cannot be achieved without lead additives.
Back during WWII I think, The US Army discovered that they could almost triple the amount of available gas, by adding lead to the current supply they have. Adding lead to a conventional tank of gas multiplies its octane rating well over anything else,which is why anything over 100 has lead additives (at least I think its 100 and over has lead, could be a bit higher). Because there is no other really efficient way to increase the octane rating without adding lead.
Now, you may wonder why those stickers on your car say "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" From my experiences, using leaded gas wont kill your engine, but what it Will kill (smoggers take note) is your Oxygen sensor and Catalytic Converter. It will coat them and render them useless in seconds.
thats why those Octane boosters you see in the gas stations are able to boost the octane, most of them have lead if you check the ingredients.
Any octane over a certain rating, and I'm pretty sure its 100, Cannot be achieved without lead additives.
Back during WWII I think, The US Army discovered that they could almost triple the amount of available gas, by adding lead to the current supply they have. Adding lead to a conventional tank of gas multiplies its octane rating well over anything else,which is why anything over 100 has lead additives (at least I think its 100 and over has lead, could be a bit higher). Because there is no other really efficient way to increase the octane rating without adding lead.
Now, you may wonder why those stickers on your car say "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" From my experiences, using leaded gas wont kill your engine, but what it Will kill (smoggers take note) is your Oxygen sensor and Catalytic Converter. It will coat them and render them useless in seconds.
thats why those Octane boosters you see in the gas stations are able to boost the octane, most of them have lead if you check the ingredients.
with E85 it is 15 gas 85 ethanol. no lead and 105 octane . lead doesn't burn the cleanest also and can cause some nice depostis in the engine itself.
I'm sure there are other fuels that have over 100 octane without using lead other then just e85
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
Originally Posted by Tournapart
Correct: the higher the octane the slower it burns to prevent detination, it also alows for higher compression with the risk of detination, the same way water and alcohol injection works
High octane gas will actually make an NA lose power due to the extra energy required to burn the gas, NA's were actually designed around approx 80 octane rated gas, in na's, the lower the better, so 87 is about the best us na guys can run
Its not so much burning completely as burning faster
High octane gas will actually make an NA lose power due to the extra energy required to burn the gas, NA's were actually designed around approx 80 octane rated gas, in na's, the lower the better, so 87 is about the best us na guys can run
Its not so much burning completely as burning faster
octane doesn't mean faster or slower burning. only how resistant it is to detonation. also slower burning fuels are MORE APT to cause detonation. look around for combustion chamber design. in an effort to reduce how detonation prone something is they reshaped th ecombustion chamber on new cars to help increase the burn rate. in turn this reduced how easily the motor will detonate
Respecognize!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,106
Likes: 72
From: Anchor Bay, CA
some of the reasons that people have found better results with a higer octane is older cars, especially ours as they burn oil for their entire lifespan, react better to the higher octane in part from the carbon deposits acting as hot pockets. no not the food.
i for one, have notice decreases in performance in my GSLSE when going from 87 to 91. On the TII i was ran at least 89 but its an older motor and chances of spiking makes the case for me.
i for one, have notice decreases in performance in my GSLSE when going from 87 to 91. On the TII i was ran at least 89 but its an older motor and chances of spiking makes the case for me.
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
Perhaps it is an additive they add there at the airfield not regulated from the supplier.
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
My grand father ownes a B25 Mitchell. He says it takes some pretty heavy fuel.
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
Next Time I'm down there I will get a shot of the pump for you and the colour of the fuel. About 1 hour away from where I live.
Rotorhead
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 39
From: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by zeromage428
rabble rabble rabble
i hate this thread that seems to keep coming up 1 a month...along with other threads
waste of bandwidth lol
i hate this thread that seems to keep coming up 1 a month...along with other threads
waste of bandwidth lol
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: St. Pete, FL
Bulllllshit!!!!!!
Originally Posted by '85GSL-SE
Purple. shocking isn't it!
Grade 100UL Specification for unleaded (UL) avgas, Standard Specification for Grade 100 Unleaded Aviation Gasoline. Grade 100UL is not a replacement for Grade 100; it is intended only for aircraft piston engines specifically developed to use this unleaded avgas. Some of its important properties are summarized below.
Property Requirement Test Method Knock value, lean mixture, Motor
method octane number, min 100.0 D 2700 Color Purple D 2392 Distillation, ºC D 86 Volume percent evaporated: 10%, max 70 50%, min 66 50%, max 121 90%, max 190 End point, max 225 Freezing point, ºC, max – 58 D 2386 Vapor pressure, kPa D 4953, D 5190, D 5191, D 5482 Min 38 Max 62
shocking isn't it!Grade 100UL Specification for unleaded (UL) avgas, Standard Specification for Grade 100 Unleaded Aviation Gasoline. Grade 100UL is not a replacement for Grade 100; it is intended only for aircraft piston engines specifically developed to use this unleaded avgas. Some of its important properties are summarized below.
Property Requirement Test Method
Knock value, lean mixture, Motormethod octane number, min 100.0 D 2700
Color Purple D 2392 Distillation, ºC D 86 Volume percent evaporated: 10%, max 70 50%, min 66 50%, max 121 90%, max 190 End point, max 225 Freezing point, ºC, max – 58 D 2386 Vapor pressure, kPa D 4953, D 5190, D 5191, D 5482 Min 38 Max 62 I did a search for your QUOTED Information, and look what I founf at the Chevron site. I copied your last technical portion and put it in Google. So you are full of ****.
82UL is what you got the info from. At this page: http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...csandtest.shtm
Shocking? Yes.. shocking that you are that stupid to post something that retarded.
(forgot my sig)
"Grade 82UL ASTM recently approved this new specification for a low-octane unleaded (UL) avgas, D 6227, Standard Specification for Grade 82 Unleaded Aviation Gasoline. Grade 82UL is not a replacement for Grade 80; it is intended only for aircraft piston engines specifically developed to use this unleaded avgas. Some of its important properties are summarized in Figure 9.3. Readers in need of details should refer directly to the current version of D 6227. As of this writing, Grade 82UL is not commercially available. Commercialization will depend on the development of new engines and demand for the fuel.
Figure 9.3
Summary of D 6227 Requirements
Property Requirement Test Method
Knock value, lean mixture, Motor
method octane number, min 82.0 D 2700
Color Purple D 2392
Distillation, ºC D 86
Volume percent evaporated:
10%, max 70
50%, min 66
50%, max 121
90%, max 190
End point, max 225
Freezing point, ºC, max – 58 D 2386
Vapor pressure, kPa D 4953, D 5190, D 5191, D 5482
Min 38
Max 62 "
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
one of the things you also need to think about is many countries use different octane ratings. there is RON and MON
what the US does is RON+MON/2 or another words the avg. a lot of countries though just use either RON or MON don't remember which. that can give to a higher number though the rating might be the same in the states if they did the avg method
what the US does is RON+MON/2 or another words the avg. a lot of countries though just use either RON or MON don't remember which. that can give to a higher number though the rating might be the same in the states if they did the avg method
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: qld australia
Originally Posted by sholitz
While on the topic, I've heard that in Japan they run overall higher octane fuel, is that true?? Should I be concerned about that while I consider buying a jdm 13bt?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Caldwell,ID
Originally Posted by sholitz
While on the topic, I've heard that in Japan they run overall higher octane fuel, is that true?? Should I be concerned about that while I consider buying a jdm 13bt?
another thing forgot to say
if the motors are the same for a JDM vs a USDM why would you need to use more octane?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
From: Oviedo, FL
Originally Posted by sholitz
While on the topic, I've heard that in Japan they run overall higher octane fuel, is that true?? Should I be concerned about that while I consider buying a jdm 13bt?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 886
Likes: 0
From: USA
87 US ~ 92 RON, 93 US ~ 98 RON.
The US octane scale is about 5 points lower than RON.
I'm under the impression that the brand of gas you use is more important than the octane. I usually run Shell 87. Last tank I ran Exxon 87 and my milage went in the crapper.
The US octane scale is about 5 points lower than RON.
I'm under the impression that the brand of gas you use is more important than the octane. I usually run Shell 87. Last tank I ran Exxon 87 and my milage went in the crapper.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
From: OH
^ WORD... i hear some gas stations (am/pm, acro) have water and dirt in there gas becasue they dont have the gas directly filtered when put it. like they save money buying it in tanks or whatever and then put it in themself. i think thats why the gas is cheaper also.
whats that gas that has added chemicals to help your engine last longer?
whats that gas that has added chemicals to help your engine last longer?
Well, i hate to keep fueling the flames (no pun intended), but I'm about to pick up an 89 TII with a blitz bov and turbo timer this weekend. The seller says the rest of the motor is stock. I believe that the bov and turbo timer are considered reliability mods, so would it be safe for me to run 87 in the motor? It's a replaced motor (probably a rebuild) with 20k on it.
I only ask because gas prices are stupid high in California.
I only ask because gas prices are stupid high in California.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Turblown
Vendor Classifieds
12
Oct 17, 2020 03:25 PM
Shainiac
Single Turbo RX-7's
12
Jul 17, 2019 02:20 PM
