Help With Oil Pan Pickup (JB WELD?)!
08-31-09, 09:16 AM
#1
FB=OS Giken LSD
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Help With Oil Pan Pickup (JB WELD?)!
I'm prepping my S4 TII to drop into my FB. The mess is currently sitting on my balcony on an engine stand as I go through, repalce gaskets, fuel injectors, and perform general cleaning and prep work.
This weekend, I was securing the oil pan, baffale and front cover and I ran into a problem: One of the oil pickup bolts had sheared loose by the previous owner. I tried drilling it out, but I do not know what type of bolt was used as I went through multiple titanium bits and it would not even catch. I finally decided to just make another adjacant hole and tap that out. This plan was going pretty well untill... So, I'm using the metric Kobalt tool set from Lowes, I am going pretty slowly forwards and backwards tapping it out to 6mm at a 1.0 pitch, the same as the other bolt and all of the oil pan bolts. Half way in, the damn tap snaps and there is not enough to grip to twist it out!
I tried drilling through that to no avail--just bit skidding and when it does catch, it just snaps the bit. In frustration I finally made another hole that is directly adjacant to the broken tap. However, when I tried to tap that hole out, it sheared the teeth off the tap due to the tap trying to tap the broken tap and the the two high carbon steels just not moving each other.
I am so frustrated with thi otherwise simple task. I'm tempted to have the whole engine sent out and rebuilt with a new front iron. However, I do not have the money for that right now.
The only thing I can think of doing is JB Welding the the pickup to the iron and using the one good screw to support. This engine is going in my race car, so I will probably rebuild in a year or two once I get the tuning sorted out. This in not a daily driver, it is a trailer queen, but when it is used, it is pushed.
Anyone have any suggestions? Will JB weld hold?
This weekend, I was securing the oil pan, baffale and front cover and I ran into a problem: One of the oil pickup bolts had sheared loose by the previous owner. I tried drilling it out, but I do not know what type of bolt was used as I went through multiple titanium bits and it would not even catch. I finally decided to just make another adjacant hole and tap that out. This plan was going pretty well untill... So, I'm using the metric Kobalt tool set from Lowes, I am going pretty slowly forwards and backwards tapping it out to 6mm at a 1.0 pitch, the same as the other bolt and all of the oil pan bolts. Half way in, the damn tap snaps and there is not enough to grip to twist it out!
I tried drilling through that to no avail--just bit skidding and when it does catch, it just snaps the bit. In frustration I finally made another hole that is directly adjacant to the broken tap. However, when I tried to tap that hole out, it sheared the teeth off the tap due to the tap trying to tap the broken tap and the the two high carbon steels just not moving each other.
I am so frustrated with thi otherwise simple task. I'm tempted to have the whole engine sent out and rebuilt with a new front iron. However, I do not have the money for that right now.
The only thing I can think of doing is JB Welding the the pickup to the iron and using the one good screw to support. This engine is going in my race car, so I will probably rebuild in a year or two once I get the tuning sorted out. This in not a daily driver, it is a trailer queen, but when it is used, it is pushed.
Anyone have any suggestions? Will JB weld hold?
08-31-09, 09:49 AM
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Engine, Not Motor
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No, it won't hold. 
Are you using any lubrication when you are drilling and tapping? It doesn't sound like it.
Remember, when tapping a hole you need to reverse the tap and clear out the flutes every 1/2 turn.
What about making a new flange and then tapping another location?
Are you using any lubrication when you are drilling and tapping? It doesn't sound like it.
Remember, when tapping a hole you need to reverse the tap and clear out the flutes every 1/2 turn.
What about making a new flange and then tapping another location?
08-31-09, 09:56 AM
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FB=OS Giken LSD
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No, it won't hold.
Are you using any lubrication when you are drilling and tapping? It doesn't sound like it.
Remember, when tapping a hole you need to reverse the tap and clear out the flutes every 1/2 turn.
What about making a new flange and then tapping another location?
Are you using any lubrication when you are drilling and tapping? It doesn't sound like it.
Remember, when tapping a hole you need to reverse the tap and clear out the flutes every 1/2 turn.
What about making a new flange and then tapping another location?
I'm not sure what you mean about the "new flange" Please clarify. Thanks for the help!
08-31-09, 10:28 AM
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Yikes, so just rebuild and get the peace of mind? Motor is a rececent rebuild (according to the former owner), but of questionable quality anyway...
08-31-09, 10:44 AM
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Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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funny you use airforce and jbweld in the same thread.....my g/f's dad was in the airforce and "rigs" everything...makes shelves out of particle board scraps and nails the together with scrap 2x4's like this...idk how he got that design in his head but whoa damn.....heh glad you are here asking for help instead of just jbwelding and ductaping your engine together 
just figured it was funny he was in the airforce also haha
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just figured it was funny he was in the airforce also haha----
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Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; 08-28-11 at 10:54 AM. Reason: removed rascist parts of post.
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08-31-09, 06:35 PM
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Go to your local parts store, and buy a tap extractor. Remove the tap that you broke inside the iron.
Now, back to the first bolt that is broken. Buy some new "sharp" titanium bits, (or a bit sharpener - Drill Doctor ftw!) Start with center punching the broken bolt as close to the center as possible. If it is not centered, retry, until you have it centered, and then deepen it a little bit.
Use some cutting lubricant, and drill out with a very small drill bit (1/16" maybe even smaller). Once you have a nice straight hole with the small bit, work your way up in bit sizes. Once you get close to the threads, you can try collapsing one side of the bolt with a small chisel, or you can get yourself a left hand bit, and try to reverse it out.
At this point, it looks like working on the initial bolt is your best solution, other than replacing the iron.
Now, back to the first bolt that is broken. Buy some new "sharp" titanium bits, (or a bit sharpener - Drill Doctor ftw!) Start with center punching the broken bolt as close to the center as possible. If it is not centered, retry, until you have it centered, and then deepen it a little bit.
Use some cutting lubricant, and drill out with a very small drill bit (1/16" maybe even smaller). Once you have a nice straight hole with the small bit, work your way up in bit sizes. Once you get close to the threads, you can try collapsing one side of the bolt with a small chisel, or you can get yourself a left hand bit, and try to reverse it out.
At this point, it looks like working on the initial bolt is your best solution, other than replacing the iron.
09-01-09, 08:59 AM
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Hmmm, interesting comment about your uncle. That is very odd because the Air Force is very strict on following the Technical Orders and everything must be done right. He probably did not work on jets. The JB Weld idea was from my room mate who is a VW guy and insisted that it would work. I have never used JB Weld on anything in my life.
Anyway, the engine was dropped off at KDR performance, so it is in good hands and he will be compression testing it for me this week. He will actualy finish the swap for me so I will let everyone know how that goes.
Thanks for the help!
Anyway, the engine was dropped off at KDR performance, so it is in good hands and he will be compression testing it for me this week. He will actualy finish the swap for me so I will let everyone know how that goes.
Thanks for the help!
09-01-09, 08:49 PM
#11
You could have gotten a bigass tap from a plumbing supply store, tapped the big hole in the front iron for the pickup and fabricated your own pickup tube to screw in the newly tapped hole...
That's one option, but I'd have just hauled it to a machine shop and grinned my *** of as I walk away, knowing how many hours of work it's going to take him to fix your minutes of F*ing up
That's one option, but I'd have just hauled it to a machine shop and grinned my *** of as I walk away, knowing how many hours of work it's going to take him to fix your minutes of F*ing up
08-28-11, 10:48 AM
#12
I know this is kinda old, but I was doing pretty much the same thing except on the car and I had already applied sealant to everything and it cures in 5 min.
The bolt snapped so I just tightened the remaining bolt and torqued everything down. The pickup tube isn't under pressure or stress so I don't see why the second bolt is so crucial (unlike the snapped bolt I had for the primary fuel rail).
The trouble/cost/hassle of re-pulling the pan and then trying to drill out and re-tap the hole just isn't worth it considering the perceived risks, unless someone has some additional info....
Oil pressure wasn't great @ idle beforehand since there is a failing/failed seal where the front iron meets the front housing at the top on the driver side. But it held 60psi @ 3k. Guess we'll see what happens.
The bolt snapped so I just tightened the remaining bolt and torqued everything down. The pickup tube isn't under pressure or stress so I don't see why the second bolt is so crucial (unlike the snapped bolt I had for the primary fuel rail).
The trouble/cost/hassle of re-pulling the pan and then trying to drill out and re-tap the hole just isn't worth it considering the perceived risks, unless someone has some additional info....
Oil pressure wasn't great @ idle beforehand since there is a failing/failed seal where the front iron meets the front housing at the top on the driver side. But it held 60psi @ 3k. Guess we'll see what happens.
08-30-11, 11:38 PM
#15
So everything was disassembled, cleaned. While I had the pan off (again) I crushed the rear oil pressure regulator and shimmed the front, so at least I didn't do all that work JUST to locktite one bolt.
Figured i'd jazz it up since I had to do all that extra work...
Figured i'd jazz it up since I had to do all that extra work...
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