Help!!
09-16-13, 06:38 AM
#1
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Help!!
hey everyone , i have recently found oil coming out of a rotor side housing , the rear side housing to be exact and am wondering if anyone has one laying around? i know it needs to be rebuilt but it is actually seeping through the housing itself , not from any seals or such. I have an 88 turbo 2 , has anyone seen this before and does anyone maybe have one for sale?
09-16-13, 12:27 PM
#2
is the car upgraded? modified turbo 2nd gens have issues with the rear iron dowel cracking under moderate to higher horsepower builds without engine reinforcement(even if some chucklehead put a hybrid turbo on a stock car it can cause this issue due to lacking support mods). the iron can crack with as little as 250whp(conveniently the max the stock fuel system can ever handle) but i have never seen it happen with less than that.
check the for sale section and ebay for irons. some vendors also have spares but you will wind up paying more, i have induvidual irons for sale for $150-300 each(depending on condition) with the exception of the front irons, since they seem to be the hardest to keep. brand new the irons are close to $600 a pop.
i would be sure you in fact need it though, it could simply be a failing dowel o-ring, oil pressure sender or leaky oil filter pedestal o-rings. there's a number of things in that area that can leak oil.
check the for sale section and ebay for irons. some vendors also have spares but you will wind up paying more, i have induvidual irons for sale for $150-300 each(depending on condition) with the exception of the front irons, since they seem to be the hardest to keep. brand new the irons are close to $600 a pop.
i would be sure you in fact need it though, it could simply be a failing dowel o-ring, oil pressure sender or leaky oil filter pedestal o-rings. there's a number of things in that area that can leak oil.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-16-13 at 12:34 PM.
09-16-13, 12:46 PM
#4
AI will narrow your tuning window though, richer mixtures will break up ignition sooner so if the engine may have tolerated 9:1AFR before AI, it certainly won't tolerate it after and usually bump your ideal target tuning window from 9-11.5:1 to 10-11.5:1. basically saying AI tuning isn't for the novice, but water/methanol AI is more forgiving than straight water is with ignition breakup from rich conditions and usually give you about another half point AFR to work with from 9.5-11.5:1AFR, the more you inject, the more precise the tune has to be.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-16-13 at 12:53 PM.
09-16-13, 12:49 PM
#5
how would you know you're getting ignition breakup?
would it be indicated by your afr on a wideband , I bought one of those and installed not too long ago.
I thought igniton wasn't an issue until like 300whp.
I'm running rtek 1.7 , 550/720, and walbro 255, s5 Turbo, full exhaust
was going to run 10-11 psi , should I be good with the AI..
Also I was only running AI as a fail safe, I wasn't planning on tuning to it...I was getting it to prevent detonation , not create it >.<
Guess I'll be using the smaller nozzle when I hook it up, I was planning on finding a 50/50 mix to use of water/meth
would it be indicated by your afr on a wideband , I bought one of those and installed not too long ago.
I thought igniton wasn't an issue until like 300whp.
I'm running rtek 1.7 , 550/720, and walbro 255, s5 Turbo, full exhaust
was going to run 10-11 psi , should I be good with the AI..
Also I was only running AI as a fail safe, I wasn't planning on tuning to it...I was getting it to prevent detonation , not create it >.<
Guess I'll be using the smaller nozzle when I hook it up, I was planning on finding a 50/50 mix to use of water/meth
09-16-13, 12:57 PM
#6
power level is irrelevant, even a bone stock car will break up ignition once it dips below 9:1 AFR as will a highly modified car, the risk of damaging components going too far either way is dampened by power level though, richer being a safer bet at not doing damage though. in rotaries even ignition breakup sounds just like knock with my electronic tuning ears on the engine.
a stronger ignition will also buffer you more for richer mixtures without causing ignition breakup.
ignition breakup is usually a "stuttering" feel from the engine in conjunction with very rich AFRs below 10:1.
ignition breakup is basically the spark being snuffed out before igniting the mixture in the chamber because it is too heavy to ignite, so you're losing firing events. this stalls ignition and it can cause spark scatter which can do damage to the engine if it is bad enough.
a stronger ignition will also buffer you more for richer mixtures without causing ignition breakup.
ignition breakup is usually a "stuttering" feel from the engine in conjunction with very rich AFRs below 10:1.
ignition breakup is basically the spark being snuffed out before igniting the mixture in the chamber because it is too heavy to ignite, so you're losing firing events. this stalls ignition and it can cause spark scatter which can do damage to the engine if it is bad enough.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-16-13 at 01:01 PM.
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09-16-13, 01:03 PM
#8
at your power level you should have little to worry about. it is very rare to damage an engine with sub 300whp unless you keep pushing it after the symptoms start slapping you in the face and you ignore them.
it is always the case you can't control like a fuel pump falling on it's face under high boost that you simply can't do anything about aside from proper setup and luck of quality parts. luckily pumps generally do not fail under a load or gradually decrease output which you will see on your wideband.
it is always the case you can't control like a fuel pump falling on it's face under high boost that you simply can't do anything about aside from proper setup and luck of quality parts. luckily pumps generally do not fail under a load or gradually decrease output which you will see on your wideband.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-16-13 at 01:05 PM.
09-16-13, 01:10 PM
#9
My fuel pump is pretty much brand new, i have yet to rewire it but I expect it to give me more fuel pressure when I do.
I haven't pushed the car yet due to the engine still being in break-in phase.
The AI kit I'm using is a simple kit that activates at a set boost pressure, Aquamist 1s.
I haven't pushed the car yet due to the engine still being in break-in phase.
The AI kit I'm using is a simple kit that activates at a set boost pressure, Aquamist 1s.
09-16-13, 01:13 PM
#10
fuel pumps usually aren't a major concern until you really push them to their limits. i've had plenty of pumps simply die when they were run to their maximum potential, even ones that were virtually brand new and only used for break in purposes before hitting the dyno. but the magic number seems to be 500whp for the older generation high volume pumps.
deatschwerks and denso supra TT both began failing just when they started to creep over 450whp, they maxed out at just under 500whp and then began losing volume on the following runs as if they were asthmatic(AFRs kept creeping higher about 5% with each run. these were in different cars, different dynos, different ECU, different everything). the walbro pumps i've actually had the most success with and never had that asthmatic symptom, other pumps seem to be very susceptible to fuel temperatures where the walbro design is less affected by it. the Bosch 044 is also a good one, but these are overkill for most applications.
deatschwerks and denso supra TT both began failing just when they started to creep over 450whp, they maxed out at just under 500whp and then began losing volume on the following runs as if they were asthmatic(AFRs kept creeping higher about 5% with each run. these were in different cars, different dynos, different ECU, different everything). the walbro pumps i've actually had the most success with and never had that asthmatic symptom, other pumps seem to be very susceptible to fuel temperatures where the walbro design is less affected by it. the Bosch 044 is also a good one, but these are overkill for most applications.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-16-13 at 01:23 PM.
09-16-13, 01:24 PM
#11
Yeah I made sure I got mine from Banzai racing , I don't trust eBay , could've ended up with a fake.
Since this is a street car my main concern is reliability, but I obviously want performance but in my opinion reliability cannot be stressed enough as being your primary concern on a rotary, which is why I'm getting as many supporting mods as I can, its insurance and peace of mind.
I've been on here for.years and have learned alot just from reading and even more from asking.questions.
Since this is a street car my main concern is reliability, but I obviously want performance but in my opinion reliability cannot be stressed enough as being your primary concern on a rotary, which is why I'm getting as many supporting mods as I can, its insurance and peace of mind.
I've been on here for.years and have learned alot just from reading and even more from asking.questions.
09-16-13, 09:07 PM
#12
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Im dynoed qt over 400 and it it not really a crack but more of a porous seapage I threw some silicone there just to make it into work so I could pull the motor
09-17-13, 01:26 AM
#14
sometimes a crack isn't apparent until you can inspect it from the inside. most dowel cracks will be flared open where it meets the dowel pin so you will know if it was a related failure or just a porous cast, but how could a porous cast make it this far into the engines life? that is the question you have to make sense of. cast iron doesn't just open up a flaw in the material one day out of the blue.
09-17-13, 05:47 AM
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sometimes a crack isn't apparent until you can inspect it from the inside. most dowel cracks will be flared open where it meets the dowel pin so you will know if it was a related failure or just a porous cast, but how could a porous cast make it this far into the engines life? that is the question you have to make sense of. cast iron doesn't just open up a flaw in the material one day out of the blue.
09-21-13, 10:08 PM
#18
told you what it was.. and the reason for it. replacing just the iron isn't going to fix the problem.
350whp and up on a fresh thin cast early turbo engine is just asking for trouble even if the engine is tuned properly. you could attempt to overtorque the tension bolts but that creates other problems. get a stud kit, lower the boost, pin the engine, get a Jspec/new USDM turbo S5 rear iron, something to reinforce it or bring it out of that range.
i got literally a pile of irons that look just like that(they can be repaired but the block has to be externally oil fed versus the oil running through the upper oil galley).
you actually got lucky that it wasn't worse and emptied out the oil pan in a span of 2 miles, and dressed your engine bay in oil.
350whp and up on a fresh thin cast early turbo engine is just asking for trouble even if the engine is tuned properly. you could attempt to overtorque the tension bolts but that creates other problems. get a stud kit, lower the boost, pin the engine, get a Jspec/new USDM turbo S5 rear iron, something to reinforce it or bring it out of that range.
i got literally a pile of irons that look just like that(they can be repaired but the block has to be externally oil fed versus the oil running through the upper oil galley).
you actually got lucky that it wasn't worse and emptied out the oil pan in a span of 2 miles, and dressed your engine bay in oil.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-21-13 at 10:16 PM.
09-22-13, 05:11 PM
#23
V8
or buy a stud kit and just replace the iron and install the stud kit.
machining the block for a real stud kit would be ideal but not always practical. if it was going over 500whp i would consider that option, many shops can mill the block for oversize friction fit studs. the smaller kits will work without reaming the block.
or buy a stud kit and just replace the iron and install the stud kit.
machining the block for a real stud kit would be ideal but not always practical. if it was going over 500whp i would consider that option, many shops can mill the block for oversize friction fit studs. the smaller kits will work without reaming the block.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-22-13 at 05:15 PM.