Header vs. Race Pipe
05-01-02, 03:53 PM
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Header vs. Race Pipe
Allright, I'm SURE this has been asked before; But I can't search for **** I suppose. Anyway...
I recently sent my engine off for a streetport, and was told that I needed to free up the exhaust. I want to know is it worth the extra HP and Noise ( Not to mention $$ ) for the header, over a Racepipe? I was under the impression that the HP gains to the Noise gains are minimal ( Something like 2 or 3 HP, and a LOT louder ) And a Racepipe sould be EASILY made, and mated to a Borla! XR-1 could be used as a presilencer...
Anyone have any input on this?
I recently sent my engine off for a streetport, and was told that I needed to free up the exhaust. I want to know is it worth the extra HP and Noise ( Not to mention $$ ) for the header, over a Racepipe? I was under the impression that the HP gains to the Noise gains are minimal ( Something like 2 or 3 HP, and a LOT louder ) And a Racepipe sould be EASILY made, and mated to a Borla! XR-1 could be used as a presilencer...
Anyone have any input on this?
05-01-02, 04:23 PM
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I'd suggest the race pipe. Headers dont offer enough power over the race pipe to make the extra noise worth it. But then again, I've got an N1 Single. I dunno how loud your borla system will be. Headers are also twice the price as a race pipe. Not worth it if you ask me...
05-01-02, 04:37 PM
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RB Header + RB Presilencer + N1 catback = LOUD. Trust me, that is the setup I run. Headers are better IMO, but the decible increase is WAY up there. 10 minutes at WOT gives me a massive headache...
05-01-02, 05:27 PM
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Any way to quiet headers down without sacrificing the flow gains?
I just ordered my RB header and will be fabing up custom exhaust behind it.
I just ordered my RB header and will be fabing up custom exhaust behind it.
05-01-02, 06:22 PM
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Nope. Unless you want to get a custom job done. There is no cat on the market that will meet up the header to the stock cat back location. Since you are gettung a custom cat back though, I am sure it will not be any problem. It does sound EVIL when I hammer it though!! Every head in a 2 block radius turns to see me pass, espically when a flame shoots on up shifts!!!!!
05-01-02, 06:50 PM
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Actually Rico... that's not quite right...
It's offered by Mazdatrix ( Prepare the sacrafice of 450 of your hard earned dollars! ) check the "grey" area of the exhaust section.
It's offered by Mazdatrix ( Prepare the sacrafice of 450 of your hard earned dollars! ) check the "grey" area of the exhaust section.
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05-01-02, 10:29 PM
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also, liquid, enless rico was lying to me 
you can buy a bonez high flow cat and get a shop to weld it to the racepipe or header...whichever one you decide on.
you can buy a bonez high flow cat and get a shop to weld it to the racepipe or header...whichever one you decide on.
05-01-02, 10:38 PM
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Well, around here, there's a huge issue with muffler shops. There are no emissions, other than a visual inspection ( Which noone ever does ) but the local Muffler shops are REALLY hesitant to mess with ANYTHING that involves the catalytic converter.
Maybe I whould learn to use the welder.... :-D
I want to get a bolt-up system tho'. After looking at the Racing Beat setup, I think I'll prolly go with a DP, and then use the TII presilencer ( As I'm getting rid of the airpump, and other emissions soon )
Maybe I whould learn to use the welder.... :-D
I want to get a bolt-up system tho'. After looking at the Racing Beat setup, I think I'll prolly go with a DP, and then use the TII presilencer ( As I'm getting rid of the airpump, and other emissions soon )
05-01-02, 11:27 PM
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I have a header setup and I have finally gotten half decent for volume- not bad at all.
Header- Borla X-1, 2 edelbrock ceramic RPM mufflers, and 2 resonated tips (tips make a nice sound improvement!)
My car sounds very mellow- not incredibly deep- but definatly not farty- very smooth, and sweet at high RPMS's- never weedwchaky.
Most of this is due to the pre-silencer and the tips.
OK- as far as porting goes..... If you have a street ported engine- get headers.
Headers may make a 5 hp difference on a stock engine, but at lest 10 hp on a ported one- definatly do it.
Also the 10 hp gain is for stock length headers too- Ported engines run much stronger on headers that are collected about half the stock length!! People have seen a 20 HP gain by tuning the length of the headers!
Header- Borla X-1, 2 edelbrock ceramic RPM mufflers, and 2 resonated tips (tips make a nice sound improvement!)
My car sounds very mellow- not incredibly deep- but definatly not farty- very smooth, and sweet at high RPMS's- never weedwchaky.
Most of this is due to the pre-silencer and the tips.
OK- as far as porting goes..... If you have a street ported engine- get headers.
Headers may make a 5 hp difference on a stock engine, but at lest 10 hp on a ported one- definatly do it.
Also the 10 hp gain is for stock length headers too- Ported engines run much stronger on headers that are collected about half the stock length!! People have seen a 20 HP gain by tuning the length of the headers!
05-01-02, 11:40 PM
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is the RB header shorter than the stock manifold/precat? the mazdatrix $450 cat looks like its just smushed with a bit of an extention on it. would it be hard for a muffler shop to cut off the flange, measure out and cut a pipe with the same diameter, and weld one side to the flange and the other to the exhaust? or do the RB headers (or all headers in fact) have a diff flange which doesnt match to cat converters?
05-02-02, 12:52 AM
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The most bang for your buck is definitley to just the the RB cat replacement pipe. Everything after that is just little improvements. Plus it is easy to bolt on...
~J
~J
05-02-02, 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by Bambam7
OK- as far as porting goes..... If you have a street ported engine- get headers.
Headers may make a 5 hp difference on a stock engine, but at lest 10 hp on a ported one- definatly do it.
Also the 10 hp gain is for stock length headers too- Ported engines run much stronger on headers that are collected about half the stock length!! People have seen a 20 HP gain by tuning the length of the headers!
OK- as far as porting goes..... If you have a street ported engine- get headers.
Headers may make a 5 hp difference on a stock engine, but at lest 10 hp on a ported one- definatly do it.
Also the 10 hp gain is for stock length headers too- Ported engines run much stronger on headers that are collected about half the stock length!! People have seen a 20 HP gain by tuning the length of the headers!
Anyway...I'm just looking for the best CAT-FORWARD exhaust for a streetported N/A, keeping cost vs. HP in mind.
EDIT: Bam, is there any way I could convince you to jack up a side of your car and take pictures?
EDIT2: Which would be better? The Borla XR-1 as a Presilencer... or RB's TII Presilencer? The RB is only like, $5 more, and bolts right up. But does the XR-1 quiet the exhaust more???
Last edited by Liquid Anarchy; 05-02-02 at 01:07 AM.
05-02-02, 02:21 PM
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Does anyone know what the innards of the RB presilencer looks like?
Is it anything more than a perforated tube with a cannister around it?
Is it anything more than a perforated tube with a cannister around it?
05-02-02, 03:08 PM
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Jack up my car?? You're crazy. I don't like getting dirty, and I'll break a nail!
I don't even own a jack- I pay a shop to do all the work for me, I don't even know what it looks like under my hood.
(Ya... OK)
Plus, I don't own a digital camera...sorry
Not much to see anyways- everything from the engine to the front of the y-pipecat is wrapped in thermotec.
The Borla needed to be wrapped because you could actually hear a tinny sound through the case- the wrap deadened everything nicely.
I would bet that the Borla does silence more.... it has a larger case, and also has a length of SS screen going lengthwise down the middle of the pipe- to diffuse the sound a bit, but not casue any backpressure (well, maybe a billionth of a PSI- for all you fanatics that were about to anwer that to me).
To above post- Yep- just a perforated pipe- execpt the casing is packed with SS instead of fibreglas. Thats the only difference between it and every other muffler out there. It's also the reason why it lasts more than 15 minutes!
About tuning the headers- if you want the best- you will make the yourself- that way you can make sure the runners are equal length (the reason RB headers are better than Pacesetter).
If you are willing to sacrifice one or two horsepower, (and save a few hunder dolars) buy a Pacesetter header, which has a nice long section of parallel pipe- and cut an 8-10 inch (I think) chunk out of it- and weld it back together.
Then you have to have a 8-10 inch longer straight pipe in front of the cat- very easy. Just go to any parts store and get 2 clamp on flanges and a length of 2 1/2 inch pipe. Clamp it together, and you have a pipe for 10 bucks.
I don't even own a jack- I pay a shop to do all the work for me, I don't even know what it looks like under my hood.
(Ya... OK)
Plus, I don't own a digital camera...sorry
Not much to see anyways- everything from the engine to the front of the y-pipecat is wrapped in thermotec.
The Borla needed to be wrapped because you could actually hear a tinny sound through the case- the wrap deadened everything nicely.
I would bet that the Borla does silence more.... it has a larger case, and also has a length of SS screen going lengthwise down the middle of the pipe- to diffuse the sound a bit, but not casue any backpressure (well, maybe a billionth of a PSI- for all you fanatics that were about to anwer that to me).
To above post- Yep- just a perforated pipe- execpt the casing is packed with SS instead of fibreglas. Thats the only difference between it and every other muffler out there. It's also the reason why it lasts more than 15 minutes!
About tuning the headers- if you want the best- you will make the yourself- that way you can make sure the runners are equal length (the reason RB headers are better than Pacesetter).
If you are willing to sacrifice one or two horsepower, (and save a few hunder dolars) buy a Pacesetter header, which has a nice long section of parallel pipe- and cut an 8-10 inch (I think) chunk out of it- and weld it back together.
Then you have to have a 8-10 inch longer straight pipe in front of the cat- very easy. Just go to any parts store and get 2 clamp on flanges and a length of 2 1/2 inch pipe. Clamp it together, and you have a pipe for 10 bucks.
05-02-02, 03:40 PM
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I have a RB header/pre-silencer on my GXL. it sounds like a ******* beast.
If I had to do it over again, I would leave on the exhaust manifold and run a straight pipe to the muffler(s).
If I had to do it over again, I would leave on the exhaust manifold and run a straight pipe to the muffler(s).
05-02-02, 04:49 PM
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I dunno if I'm being stupid or whatnot... BUT... Couldn't you tune the header by making the connecting pipe longer as well? If it works on the primise of pulses, like wavelengths, you'd just want them to meet at a certin point. So, instead of cutting 8 inches off ( Probably a certin section of the pulse ) couldn't you just figure how long a pulse is, and then add that much more?
05-03-02, 07:30 AM
#21
Road Racing Header (for use on a RX-7) $134
1986-92 RX-7 (Non-turbo) Streetable Header/Collector $290
Racing Beat 1986-92 Non-turbo Street Exhaust System $576
Well to sum it all up, I don't know much about this stuff, so I won't say much. But it would be great if someone could take a shot at explaining which would best best for each situation for us.
But hopefully as for the catback exhaust, this would seem like a good exhaust for a N/A w/ headers if it's anything like its Turbo II catback counterpart, which I would expect it to be. Great sounding (not too lound, buzzy, or highpitched) and it good performance and looks.
Racing Beat's Road Racing Header is the first step in building a serious racing exhaust system. The engine-to-pipe flange is flame cut from 2-inch thick flat steel. Like all of the headers we manufacture, the Road Racing Header is constructed with 2-inch O.D. mild steel tubing, .125-inch inch wall thickness, and mandrel-bends throughout.
Outlet flange gaskets, bolts, and nuts are included. Engine-to-pipe gaskets are not included, but are available separately. An Air Control and Check Valve Cover Plate is required when using this header with a stock intake system. The Road Race Header can also be used as the basis for a custom streetable exhaust system in any car from 1971-92 (equipped with a 6-port engine) which allows simple swapping between street and race exhaust systems.
These headers can used with the Street Port Center-Section Pipe (1979-85 12A & 13B except GSL-SE - Part No 16398) or (84-85 GSL-SE - Part No. 16399).
*Legal In California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway.
Outlet flange gaskets, bolts, and nuts are included. Engine-to-pipe gaskets are not included, but are available separately. An Air Control and Check Valve Cover Plate is required when using this header with a stock intake system. The Road Race Header can also be used as the basis for a custom streetable exhaust system in any car from 1971-92 (equipped with a 6-port engine) which allows simple swapping between street and race exhaust systems.
These headers can used with the Street Port Center-Section Pipe (1979-85 12A & 13B except GSL-SE - Part No 16398) or (84-85 GSL-SE - Part No. 16399).
*Legal In California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway.
1986-92 RX-7 (Non-turbo) Streetable Header/Collector $290
Our Streetable Header/Collector is designed for a bolt-on installation, when used with the appropriate Power Pulse Presilencer, in all 1986-92 non-turbo RX-7s. The combination of this Header/Collector and the appropriate presilencer replaces the stock exhaust manifold and all catalytic converters, along with any intermediate pieces of tubing. (In this application, the presilencer will bolt-up to the factory Y-pipe.)
For optimum performance gains for this application, we recommend that a header be used on an engine configured with a carburetor intake system. For this reason, we suggest another suitable configuration for use on a fuel-injected engine is the Racing Beat Catalytic Converter Replacement Pipe with Presilencer combo. These components offer comparable performance gains, quieter performance and a price advantage as compared with the header/presilencer combination. These components replace only the stock exhaust components located between the stock exhaust manifold and the Y-pipe. The Header/Collector assembly is constructed with .125-inch wall, mandrel-bend, mild steel tubing for increased durability. Both flanges are flame-cut from .4375-inch thick steel plate for positive gas sealing. An outlet gasket is included. Engine-to-header gaskets are available separately (See Gasket section).
*Legal in California only for racing vehicles, which may never be used upon a highway.
For optimum performance gains for this application, we recommend that a header be used on an engine configured with a carburetor intake system. For this reason, we suggest another suitable configuration for use on a fuel-injected engine is the Racing Beat Catalytic Converter Replacement Pipe with Presilencer combo. These components offer comparable performance gains, quieter performance and a price advantage as compared with the header/presilencer combination. These components replace only the stock exhaust components located between the stock exhaust manifold and the Y-pipe. The Header/Collector assembly is constructed with .125-inch wall, mandrel-bend, mild steel tubing for increased durability. Both flanges are flame-cut from .4375-inch thick steel plate for positive gas sealing. An outlet gasket is included. Engine-to-header gaskets are available separately (See Gasket section).
*Legal in California only for racing vehicles, which may never be used upon a highway.
Racing Beat 1986-92 Non-turbo Street Exhaust System $576
NEW Muffler Canister design!
Update: For many years we received our supply of muffler canisters from RSR of Japan. After dropping the RSR line due to some rather large price increases, we were forced to look elsewhere for our mufflers. After extensive research, we found a supplier that was willing to manufacture mufflers to our exact specifications at a reasonable cost. Once the first shipment or muffler canisters arrived, we knew that these exhaust systems were gong to be fantastic! (These same style mufflers were selected for use on Mazda’s Protégé MP3 and our Miata applications.)
This street legal, cat-back exhaust system is the perfect replacement - a durable assembly offering a real horsepower gain for your stock unit. Our system consists of a Racing Beat Y-pipe and two 2-inch (OD) 304-stainless steel Power Pulse muffler canisters. The replacement Y-pipe is manufactured using 2.5-inch (OD) tubing, splitting off into a pair of 2-inch (OD) tubes feeding the muffler canisters. (This Y-pipe can be used as a direct replacement for the factory Y- pipe.) Both muffler canisters are finished with newly re-designed 3-inch, polished 304 stainless tips for an aggressive look.
Performance tests on a Dyno Jet chassis dyno have shown a 5-7 HP gain over the stock system. This bolt-on system uses the stock mounting points for ease of installation. Each system is supplied with all necessary mounting hardware and gaskets. These components are also available separately
Update: For many years we received our supply of muffler canisters from RSR of Japan. After dropping the RSR line due to some rather large price increases, we were forced to look elsewhere for our mufflers. After extensive research, we found a supplier that was willing to manufacture mufflers to our exact specifications at a reasonable cost. Once the first shipment or muffler canisters arrived, we knew that these exhaust systems were gong to be fantastic! (These same style mufflers were selected for use on Mazda’s Protégé MP3 and our Miata applications.)
This street legal, cat-back exhaust system is the perfect replacement - a durable assembly offering a real horsepower gain for your stock unit. Our system consists of a Racing Beat Y-pipe and two 2-inch (OD) 304-stainless steel Power Pulse muffler canisters. The replacement Y-pipe is manufactured using 2.5-inch (OD) tubing, splitting off into a pair of 2-inch (OD) tubes feeding the muffler canisters. (This Y-pipe can be used as a direct replacement for the factory Y- pipe.) Both muffler canisters are finished with newly re-designed 3-inch, polished 304 stainless tips for an aggressive look.
Performance tests on a Dyno Jet chassis dyno have shown a 5-7 HP gain over the stock system. This bolt-on system uses the stock mounting points for ease of installation. Each system is supplied with all necessary mounting hardware and gaskets. These components are also available separately
Well to sum it all up, I don't know much about this stuff, so I won't say much. But it would be great if someone could take a shot at explaining which would best best for each situation for us.
But hopefully as for the catback exhaust, this would seem like a good exhaust for a N/A w/ headers if it's anything like its Turbo II catback counterpart, which I would expect it to be. Great sounding (not too lound, buzzy, or highpitched) and it good performance and looks.
Last edited by Node; 05-03-02 at 07:33 AM.
05-03-02, 07:43 AM
#22
RB header + HKS 50 mm catback, not VERY loud at all if using the stock catalytic, and VERY reasonablewith RB pre silencer. If you are going with a custom exhaust, buy two extra flanges (and dont forget one extra gasket) if you want to keep the stock catalytic, basically you need a spacer of 2.5 in (if my memory serves me correct) between the header and the catalytic.
Remember the bigger the diameter of the muffler the louder it will be! I recomend a Dynomax super flow!
Remember the bigger the diameter of the muffler the louder it will be! I recomend a Dynomax super flow!
05-03-02, 07:58 AM
#23
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KNONFS, that is what I like to hear. The RB header to HKS 50mm catback will be my exact setup. With a high flow cat connecting the two. I was hoping it wouldn't be too loud crusing around town. Thanks.
05-04-02, 02:03 AM
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I wish they made this for us...
That would make it SO much easier for me...
*Side note: I'd screw Pink rotten.
1979-85 RX-7 (13B - except GSL-SE models)
Street Port Complete Exhaust System*
Our Racing Beat-designed, Long Primary, Street Port Complete Exhaust System is ideal for Street Ported 1979-85 RX-7s (except the GSL-SE). It consists of a Road Race Header Front Section, two Power-Pulse Presilencers, and a high flow Power Pulse Main muffler, along with all necessary gaskets and hangers. The Long Primary system typically adds 5% or more horsepower over a Short Primary system on a street ported engine, especially at higher RPMs. This system can also be used on non-ported engines with good results. It is strictly bolt-on, with no welding required.
* Legal in California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway.
Street Port Complete Exhaust System*
Our Racing Beat-designed, Long Primary, Street Port Complete Exhaust System is ideal for Street Ported 1979-85 RX-7s (except the GSL-SE). It consists of a Road Race Header Front Section, two Power-Pulse Presilencers, and a high flow Power Pulse Main muffler, along with all necessary gaskets and hangers. The Long Primary system typically adds 5% or more horsepower over a Short Primary system on a street ported engine, especially at higher RPMs. This system can also be used on non-ported engines with good results. It is strictly bolt-on, with no welding required.
* Legal in California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway.
*Side note: I'd screw Pink rotten.
05-04-02, 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by Liquid Anarchy
I dunno if I'm being stupid or whatnot... BUT... Couldn't you tune the header by making the connecting pipe longer as well? If it works on the primise of pulses, like wavelengths, you'd just want them to meet at a certin point. So, instead of cutting 8 inches off ( Probably a certin section of the pulse ) couldn't you just figure how long a pulse is, and then add that much more?
I dunno if I'm being stupid or whatnot... BUT... Couldn't you tune the header by making the connecting pipe longer as well? If it works on the primise of pulses, like wavelengths, you'd just want them to meet at a certin point. So, instead of cutting 8 inches off ( Probably a certin section of the pulse ) couldn't you just figure how long a pulse is, and then add that much more?