superdave08

Trying to decide which one to use on my build. Looking for feedback from actual users. I have my own hypothesis on each of them hoping to collect enough info to make a final decision. So let me hear it guys pros and cons on them all.

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

RTek is very basic, based off the stock, somewhat incapable ECU. Megasquirt as far as I know requires more labour, as you need to build it yourself. Some older haltechs suffered from poor trigger signal quality, some people have RPM jumps/cuts, etc. Newer Haltech PS units are the ****.

superdave08

Building the megasquirt is not a problem. I have looked at the E6x i belive with the flying lead kit. although it is kinda pricey. I believe now that the RTek is out if it is based on the stock ECM unless someone else has substantial proven information on it.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

look at the haltech SPRINT RE. less than 900 bucks NEW. also go with chris ludwig on the forum. he gives a pretty big discount to forum members.

NI_Racing

iTrader: (4)

^ thats good to know! Thanks for the info

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

Rtek;

plugs in! the stock ecu might be slower in HZ, but its got WAY more stuff going on than even the E11, and it does it reliably. the stock ecu is sequential injection, the ignition is RIGHT, and it runs all the stuff in the car, because its in the car.

cons? you keep the stock sensors, so this limits the power potential (ive seen 320+), unless you get creative.

Haltech:

install requires a massive rewiring of car (your 25 year old stock wiring is better than the new haltech one), which always seems to cause problems. the software/ecu's are buggy, at least up to the e11v2. they DO NOT do the ignition very well, with the result being lots of broken dowel pins, if you're looking at a haltech you should really buy a motec.

MS:

ecu is a little simple, its not sequential injection like the stock ecu, you can't do injector phasing like they did on the stock ecu. it's also not cheap anymore.

it does seem to be reliable though. the people who run it seem very happy.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

How about you tell us what your setup is and your power goals? What will you be doing with the car?

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Each system has it's pros and cons. The Haltech has the most capabilities with the finest tuning resolution. Yes it does require rewiring the engine and it costs the most.

The Megasquirt has many good features. You have the option of building it yourself or purchasing it assembled. For n/a's you can even purchase it as a plug in option although the MS does seem to be more sensitive to old factory wiring. The hardest part of using an MS is in downloading the software to get it to work correctly. There is a tutorial somewhere on here that tells step by step how to do it but that tutorial doesn't use the correct software and really limits what you can do with the ecu. I built my own MS and found it to be a nice little option as long as you aren't installing it on a serious race car. With it's resolution I personally wouldn't run more than about 8 lbs of boost with it but that's an opinion and not a rule.

The RTEK is nice because you are basically retuning the stock ecu. No rewiring. From what I have seen of it, it seems less capable ultimately than the MS but don't let this discourage you away from it. Just because something has lots of features doesn't mean you will use them all. When you get the RTEK, it has the factory maps loaded so you can drive it now and tune as you desire. This is a big advantage and one that makes me ponder using it in my current car.

It is easy to try to make a choice based on which one has the most capabilities on paper, or which one is cheapest, or which one is easiest to install, etc. Actually each of those 3 choices would favor a different one of the 3 ecu's. Without knowing which car you have, your goals (realistically obtainable goals), and your ecu knowledge and tuning skill level, it is hard to tell you which one you may be happiest with. They each have their place in the world and I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple. Don't buy something that has more than you will need or ever use.

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

If I might add to rotarygod's statement, don't buy something that has more than you will ever need or ever use, but at the same time don't leave yourself wanting more. I went with a Microtech LT8s on my last build, and have some regrets. It has somewhat accurate trigger signals, and isn't plagued as much as some of the older Haltechs, and was very cheap, however it is one the most basic ECU, and resolution is ****-poor at best. In hindsight, it would be best served on a straight drag car with the ECU handling nothing but ignition/fuel.

The Sprint RE or PS 1000 are some of the best entry-level EMS's IMO today. I also recommend C. Ludwig for your purchase and a harness. Again, this is depending on your goals and intended use for the car.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Never Used a Haltech or a MS, but I have been using an rtek for over a year or two now, with good results.

I'm running a S4 Hybrid TO4b turbo, with 680x1000cc injectors with a SRT-4 FMIC with a RTEK 2.1. My first dyno at stock boost with minor creep ~7-9 psi i was at 230 RWHP with 10 AFR's in the midrange (too rich). I am now running ~10-11 psi and figuring about 250rwhp or so. It's fast enough for me currently with the tires it has on it, can spin second by dropping the hammer (probably because of the shitty tires mostly).

Tuning does take some time, but if you had access to a dyno it could be done faster, but using the Palm Pilot to make adjustments takes quite some time because you have to edit each perameter one at a time. Just to input the timing maps I spent over an hour and a half just sitting there pluggin in the values. Almost every time I drive it I log, then review on the Computer, then make adjustments to fueling. It still runs rich.

But to be able to send my ecu in and have it sent back in a day or two and just plug it in and go was great. Very user freindly for a Novice tuner who doesn't want to pay someone and would rather learn to 'tune' themselves and who doesn't want to worry about wiring and tuning just to get the car started/running.

This guy made +400HP on an RTEK.
https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-128/dyno-sheet-update-916752/

There are multiple people I think that are making around 300hp on an RTEK 2.1.

If you have moderate goals 300-350hp then I would recommend the RTEK.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

I also have the Microtech LT8. I agree that the resolution could be better especially when transitioning to the secondary injectors. However, I was running 550 primaries and 1600 secondaries. I now installed 750 primaries and the transition is much smoother. Just dynoed at 353rwhp. No reliability issues.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The Megasquirt can definitely be described as DIY. There are a dizzying amount of things to learn on it.

Rtek has the factory driveability which is a plus.

Haltech has gotten a bum rap because of some crank angle signal problems people had on the older models. My understanding is that the latest ones are much better with that.

Microtech doesn't allow you to save maps to a file. My NES Zelda cartridge allows me to save my game, and that's older than my FC!

Power FC is another option. You're not going to get away with less than $1000 to get everything you need for it. It doesn't have all the extra capability of the latest Haltechs but it works well with the Banzai Racing plug-and-play adapter (very little wiring needed). It's not very sensitive to electrical noise like some of the other systems. I have a 23-year-old harness on my Power FC. Power FC also has the most publicly available tuning knowledge and the broadest network of professional Rx-7 tuners.

wankelbug

im on the tail end of finishing my build with a MS and i have never messed with an FI build before. i have been able to figure out most of what i needed to know by reading megamanual.com a few questions answered on the forums but all in all its pretty easy to assemble ect. the pain is getting the correct software ect but at that point it is a breeze in its defense i suck at computer related stuff. as for the price i thought i would save a ton of money so far about $600 but if i look at how many hrs i spent messing with it i should have just got a haltec at about $1000 and saved myself a headache or 3.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

wrong wrong wrong wrong.

the e11 is a massively more capable ecu than the stock unit will EVER be. more things to log, more things to controle, more fine tuning, more options for injectors, more options on sensors, more option all across the board.

the wireing is not massive at all. its moderate compared to the megasquirt where you have to build the whole damn thing, and run proper wireing that does not come with it.

both ecu's do the ignition properly, and read the signal properly.

the broken dowels are common regardless of ecu you use, and the fact is that the e6x has a slight problem with ignition pickup, but its hit and miss who it affects.

the new ecu's from haltech are splendid they are soo amazing, its retarted not to consider them... but of course, the the 25 year old warn out and corroded wireing is better than a brand new harness right? right?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

The Megasquirt is probably the most capable ECU on that list of three, but the big disadvantage is that you must know what you are doing to use it. It supports all the rotary stuff we need: ignition split, staged injection, etc. But a Megasquirt installation is only as good as the one doing it. This is true with any standalone of course, but more so on the Megasquirt since the ECU itself must be adapted to run the rotary. Really, the Megasquirt ECU needs minor to major changes to run almost any engine, so you need to look at it as a base unit that is modified to suit your needs. Thankfully, there are many good rotary Megasquirt writeups, like mine (plug!): http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/megasquirt

Honestly if you are a DIY type person with a little electronics knowledge, I would recommend an MSII v3.57 w/Zeal based Megasquirt setup.

If not, but you are capable of wiring in an ECU, then the new Haltech Platinum series or the Sprint RE (for entry level use) is an awesome choice.

I agree that the Microtech is a woefully antiquated ECU and more suited to a drag setup. But with care and patience, one can make it run fine on the street. You may miss things like the ability to control an idle valve though. It can also only save maps to the programming dongle, which is just ******* stupid.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the last haltech i had is an E11 v2 on a 3 rotor. don't get me wrong, its very close to being really excellent, however i was stuck by the side of the road with puked firmware or other software issues, enough that it killed the car.

has haltech gotten better? i hope so, but for the effort, and time it takes to install and learn the new ecu, you could have put the rtek in tuned it dynoed it and been done for weeks

if you look at the input/outputs of the stock ecu vs anything else, the stock ecu is doing much more. it runs all the emissions stuff too don't forget. i will grant you that its slow, and we don't have the tool to do any logging with the stocker

you just won't see a broken dowel on a PFC car or an rtek car.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Some things about the Power FC irritate me. Cracked irons and electrical noise problems are not among them.

joeylyrech

iTrader: (11)

i had a MS on my turbo bridgeport and it did not worked for me,i kept getting ignition problems with a brand new harness and top notch install.The software is hard 2 understand at first but it gets easier with time and it does have tons of features.I ran the same car with a HALTEC E11 Ver2,also have problems with ignition noise that i could not fix at all,good resolution,nice features,a very capable ecu but it did not worked for me.Finally i went with a MICROTECH LTS 8.
No ignition problems at all,car starts right up,makes good power,really easy software 2 use but is a very basic unit.No close loop,no air bypass valve(a real pain in the ***)no save 2 disk,wideband option is extra(cost almost 1G to get this enable)no support from the ECU manufactures for the past 8 years and we wont see a upgrade at all.My opinion,for a race car MICROTECH for a daily driven FC a Rtek and for something in between a HALTECH.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Apexi Power FC

Rock solid injector staging, no issues with ignition noise, saveable maps, easily tunable for anything 150 to 600+whp, installs in an hour (not days) and can be uninstalled to return the car to stock. Not to mention it was designed specifically for the rotary, which explains why it does such a great job of controlling it.

superdave08

I bought the car about a year ago with no engine or harness as the previous owner was going to do a lsx conversion... It is a 1988 Turbo II believe it is a 331 chassis number. I have sourced a engine that will be a half bridgeported with either a t04e or a hx52 turbo and all the supporting mods upon completion this may take a while as funds are limited but I am looking to get 350-375 RWHP out of this car when it is done. I am planning on it being a street car with occasional visits to SCCA races.

superdave08

will the power FC also control ignition as this may prove to be a vable option. I do not have a stock ecu for the car if i forgot to mention that earlier. Building a harness is not going to be an issue i dont think. I am a heavy equipment techician and rebuilding harnesses and re-pining ecm's is nothing short of a weekly occurance, guy's i really appreciate the input.

chatchie

iTrader: (22)

Can you get a PowerFC with just a flying lead harness and use aftermarket sensors? I always see these plug n play units for S4 or S5 but Id rather start fresh. Also I noticed that there are different versions the FD guys use, like pre-95 and post 95.

Ive been debating on which ECU to purchase for at least a year, until Rtek ditches the AFM and allows me to tune from a laptop I wont buy it.

The powerfc has a ton of support here and you can get used units pretty cheap.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

you are better off going with a a stand alone that uses a proper wiring harness. the megasquirt is ok, just a headache. the pfc is good, but can be better, but the things i reccomend above all are haltech, motec, wolfecu, and microtech

for you, building the harness will be the simplest part. hell... you could even get that done in a day.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The post 95 versions don't have the same harness plugs. You don't really want to mess with those, there's no point. Almost all the used units are for series 6 FD, although there are some AP Engineering Power FC's that come with their own adapter harness and were designed to work directly with an S5. As for the sensors:

1. When you buy the adapter kit usually you get a new MAP sensor. The GM 3 bar is the most common but you can also use the 2 bar FD sensor. There is also an apex'i 3 bar sensor. Most MAP sensors will work, but if it's not a commonly used sensor you will have to do a custom calibration by inputting voltage and pressure information into a spreadsheet that is floating around.
   
2. You also need an IAT sensor. You can use the FD sensor which is buffered (slow responding) or a Triumph sensor which is fast responding like the FC sensor.
   
3. For the water temp sensor I recommend you get a new one from Mazda. They are under $40 I believe if you do Mazdatrix or Malloy Mazda (forum vendor here). You could use your original one but they do degrade over time and can read inaccurately after 20+ years.
   
4. If your original TPS isn't in spec you will have to get one that is. I just got a new one from Malloy Mazda but you can hunt for a good used one. If you go with an FD UIM and throttlebody you can go with a used FD sensor which is usually reliable than a used FC sensor. With OEM sensors installation and adjustment is quick.

The factory wiring harness isn't a big issue on a Power FC unlike other plug-and-play setups. Just don't use one that is completely trashed with melted insulation and crumbling connectors, but you wouldn't want that on a stock ECU either. As I said, I am using a 23 year old '87 harness with the OEM mazda resistor box so I could drop in low impedence injectors (720/1680). These days though there are big high impedence injectors available from injector dynamics so the whole impedence thing is not such a big issue.

For DIY tuning you need a Datalogit box, which is unfortunately an additional expense. It allows you to log wideband and any other analog signal, plus it gives you a laptop interface which gives access to all the settings in the computer. I log wideband and an EGT probe for each rotor. The Power FC can also control boost using an OEM or $25 aftermarket solenoid if you get everything set up properly. You just have to make sure you get the boost control harness pin installed into the plug on s4 models. I use the Power FC handheld programmer to quickly read peak boost and I also use it to switch between low and high boost settings.


I wrote a full guide on using the Power FC in a 2nd gen application. It can be found here: http://www.banzai-racing.com/how_to/...FC3S_Guide.doc You can also PM cewrx7r1 about a Power FC tuning guide and discussion group that he runs.

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

Turbo II's had vin numbers beginning with 332.