good sized turbo for NA?? others.. *help*
10-14-01, 01:21 AM
#1
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good sized turbo for NA?? others.. *help*
what size turbo would be a good size for an NA rx7? looking to get like 4lbs of boost. im pretty versed with the way a turbo works, but if i get a oversized turbo i could always set the boost controller to allow the wastegate to open super early and give me just 4 lbs right?
ive seen a few turbos cheap from subarus called ihi turbos, and ive seen som garrett t3 turbos. would either of these work? im assumeing that a turbo is a turbo and they work the same, just the connections that hook up to and from the motor are different?
also, how many lines come off a typial turbo. i know you have the oil grab and return lines.. what else? are there vaccuum lines or anything??
scott
ive seen a few turbos cheap from subarus called ihi turbos, and ive seen som garrett t3 turbos. would either of these work? im assumeing that a turbo is a turbo and they work the same, just the connections that hook up to and from the motor are different?
also, how many lines come off a typial turbo. i know you have the oil grab and return lines.. what else? are there vaccuum lines or anything??
scott
? not sure how much yet. im actually selling the motor too.
10-14-01, 02:44 AM
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Sup scott.
i wouldnt get a TurBlownetics...but, even for just 4psi, a T2 would be fine, a T3 would be a little on the big side. either way, those would spool up VERY fast. youd always be in the boost.
hell with a turbo that small, and such low boost, you could even get an internal wastegate. might not even need a BOV.
a Stock T2 manifold should mount just fine w/ minimal interference. after all, they WERE made for the same car. you probably could just use the stock T2 turbo/manifold set up. watch out for cracked manifold and turbo housings. its typical on rotaries. but, not a good thing. stock T2 turbos, are probably capable of 1 Bar... before overspooling, maybe more boost. but, the FCD on a T2 is set at 8.8 psi. sooo...stock T2 setup, going for 4 psi, could almost be called overkill. and that would be the best set up for ya. just gota think about how ur gonna control all the functions, and how ur gonna control fuel ratio and knock and ****...
good luck bro.
chris
btw, this guy, wants me to Head up a Toledo chapter of a car club from NC, called "Rolling Temptation" it would be nice to have a car club up here in Toledo. whatchu think?
i wouldnt get a TurBlownetics...but, even for just 4psi, a T2 would be fine, a T3 would be a little on the big side. either way, those would spool up VERY fast. youd always be in the boost.
hell with a turbo that small, and such low boost, you could even get an internal wastegate. might not even need a BOV.
a Stock T2 manifold should mount just fine w/ minimal interference. after all, they WERE made for the same car. you probably could just use the stock T2 turbo/manifold set up. watch out for cracked manifold and turbo housings. its typical on rotaries. but, not a good thing. stock T2 turbos, are probably capable of 1 Bar... before overspooling, maybe more boost. but, the FCD on a T2 is set at 8.8 psi. sooo...stock T2 setup, going for 4 psi, could almost be called overkill. and that would be the best set up for ya. just gota think about how ur gonna control all the functions, and how ur gonna control fuel ratio and knock and ****...
good luck bro.
chris
btw, this guy, wants me to Head up a Toledo chapter of a car club from NC, called "Rolling Temptation" it would be nice to have a car club up here in Toledo. whatchu think?
10-14-01, 02:35 PM
#6
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i dont think i would have to worry about like controlling the fuel oranything like that.. just put in some bigger t2 injectors, and the computer shouldhandle the rest. im sure the puter can compensate for like 10lbs... i should be able to stay out of detonation with somebetter gas. i mean 4-6lbs max is not a lotta boost! but enuf to get me outa the 16s! im thinking just setting a manual boost controller low and letting most of the boost waste out.
btw, anyone know if you can achieve like zero boost or 1 psi of boost? u know for winter!
if you wanna roll up there im cool with that "rolling temptation" soundskidna umm lame tho..LOL
scott
btw, anyone know if you can achieve like zero boost or 1 psi of boost? u know for winter!
if you wanna roll up there im cool with that "rolling temptation" soundskidna umm lame tho..LOL
scott
10-14-01, 02:55 PM
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Thats not an FC...
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i dunno, i think a Lame car club is better than NO car club, where im stuck cruisin around all by myself.
you could probably set the wastegate wide open, and bleed off all the boost. and the stock computer should be able to handle up to about 10 psi i think. cuz there is a stock 'pressure sensor' which works in conjunction w/ the Maf so it can handle pretty much any condition. yea, T2 injectorss would be perfect for this application.
oh yea, btw, defcon moved. they arent at their old shop anymore. i know where their show room is now, but their shop isnt in the same building. theyre just moving in.
chris
you could probably set the wastegate wide open, and bleed off all the boost. and the stock computer should be able to handle up to about 10 psi i think. cuz there is a stock 'pressure sensor' which works in conjunction w/ the Maf so it can handle pretty much any condition. yea, T2 injectorss would be perfect for this application.
oh yea, btw, defcon moved. they arent at their old shop anymore. i know where their show room is now, but their shop isnt in the same building. theyre just moving in.
chris
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10-14-01, 08:35 PM
#9
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No the stocker wont fit....
Hey guys take it from me the stock T2 manifold will bolt up
but the turbo will not clear the intake manifold.
And the with a boost controller you will not be able to lower the
boost you can only set it higher, to lower the boost you will need a different wastegate.
Also if anyone is interested I can make an adapter that will let you bolt up the stock T2 turbo and manifold to the n/a block and still clear the lower intake manifold.
See ya
but the turbo will not clear the intake manifold.
And the with a boost controller you will not be able to lower the
boost you can only set it higher, to lower the boost you will need a different wastegate.
Also if anyone is interested I can make an adapter that will let you bolt up the stock T2 turbo and manifold to the n/a block and still clear the lower intake manifold.
See ya
10-14-01, 08:49 PM
#10
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After my TII goes through a 60-1 turbo install, I am going to have alot of parts left over, so my Gx(se) is going turbo with some of the leftovers from the conversion..
I don't know if you really care or not, but here is my thoughts on the n/a conversion..
Alot of people suggest just swapping the entire harness/ecu/engine/trans etc to the n/a, however unless you get a wrecked TII for about 200 bucks, its cheaper and easier to buy a TII once you collect all the various parts..
The TII engine is lower compression, which allows for more boost, but whats better, an off boost 8.5:1 motor with 10 psi, or an engine with decent compression(n/a) to give non boost off idle low end with 6 psi? In the 90's compression started moving up in the OEM turbo cars, as efi and its associated sensors got better, for example the fd's are at 9:1 compared to the early tII at 8.5:1, the answer is in the timing control, via knock sensor, fuel enrichment control, and injection capacity, which brings me to my next point, if you are going to turbo the N/A, you are going to be limited to the control of the stock computer, reguardless if you go with the n/a engine/ecu with mods or the TII engine/ecu with mods, on top of that installing the harness for the TII computer is apparently a bitch, the best way in my mind to do it, is turbo the n/a motor, and forget about the ecu/ and pain the in *** harness transplants, bite the bullet and buy a wolf or Haltech, these systems would give you so much more control over the engine to be able to take advantage of the higher CR and the turbo when combined together, chances are even if you went with the TII components, you would end up buying an FCD, S-afc, larger injectors, fuel pump,Profec or EVC, and an ITC, to run more boost,by the time you do that you are going to be probably more than the wolf or the haltech, and have a piggyback system that is limited in adjustment and the stock ecu would not know if its coming or going...
Another issue is intercooling, with decent intercooling, the higher CR can be handled, the stock tII intercooling is far from adequate, also the n/a intake allows for easier plumbing for a front mount, especially with an electric fan install, there is a 1st gen on the web with a car tech turbo kit on a 13b 6port n/a, even with the kit, he had to install extra injectors, add electronics piggy back style etc etc, the wolf or the haltech would have been a far easier and in the long run, cheaper and less stressful fix..
Thats my opinion on it, I am not saying the n/a is a better boost candidate than the TII, the TII has componentry that is far better for higher power levels, but a stock hitachi turbo on a n/a with a wolf/ haltech, good injectors/pump decent front mount should be good for a reliable 250 hp, which if you had an already somewhat tricked out GXL or Se for that matter with lots of other good stuff like wheels,seats,body kit or whatever, this would be a good way to cap off the project and give it some jam, instead of tearing the car down parting it, or selling it at a loss to get the cash to get a TII and start all over again, if your n/a is a clapped out POS, forget about it though and go TII shopping...Max
I don't know if you really care or not, but here is my thoughts on the n/a conversion..
Alot of people suggest just swapping the entire harness/ecu/engine/trans etc to the n/a, however unless you get a wrecked TII for about 200 bucks, its cheaper and easier to buy a TII once you collect all the various parts..
The TII engine is lower compression, which allows for more boost, but whats better, an off boost 8.5:1 motor with 10 psi, or an engine with decent compression(n/a) to give non boost off idle low end with 6 psi? In the 90's compression started moving up in the OEM turbo cars, as efi and its associated sensors got better, for example the fd's are at 9:1 compared to the early tII at 8.5:1, the answer is in the timing control, via knock sensor, fuel enrichment control, and injection capacity, which brings me to my next point, if you are going to turbo the N/A, you are going to be limited to the control of the stock computer, reguardless if you go with the n/a engine/ecu with mods or the TII engine/ecu with mods, on top of that installing the harness for the TII computer is apparently a bitch, the best way in my mind to do it, is turbo the n/a motor, and forget about the ecu/ and pain the in *** harness transplants, bite the bullet and buy a wolf or Haltech, these systems would give you so much more control over the engine to be able to take advantage of the higher CR and the turbo when combined together, chances are even if you went with the TII components, you would end up buying an FCD, S-afc, larger injectors, fuel pump,Profec or EVC, and an ITC, to run more boost,by the time you do that you are going to be probably more than the wolf or the haltech, and have a piggyback system that is limited in adjustment and the stock ecu would not know if its coming or going...
Another issue is intercooling, with decent intercooling, the higher CR can be handled, the stock tII intercooling is far from adequate, also the n/a intake allows for easier plumbing for a front mount, especially with an electric fan install, there is a 1st gen on the web with a car tech turbo kit on a 13b 6port n/a, even with the kit, he had to install extra injectors, add electronics piggy back style etc etc, the wolf or the haltech would have been a far easier and in the long run, cheaper and less stressful fix..
Thats my opinion on it, I am not saying the n/a is a better boost candidate than the TII, the TII has componentry that is far better for higher power levels, but a stock hitachi turbo on a n/a with a wolf/ haltech, good injectors/pump decent front mount should be good for a reliable 250 hp, which if you had an already somewhat tricked out GXL or Se for that matter with lots of other good stuff like wheels,seats,body kit or whatever, this would be a good way to cap off the project and give it some jam, instead of tearing the car down parting it, or selling it at a loss to get the cash to get a TII and start all over again, if your n/a is a clapped out POS, forget about it though and go TII shopping...Max
10-15-01, 10:47 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
good point max. of course people like me arent looking fof 250 hp..
just looking to get outa the 16s... and have that 6lbs or so of boost to help get up onto the freeway..
on this car, a wolf is definitly outa the price question. im looking at throwing together a turbo kit for like around 500-600 bucks non intercooled, basically with used parts..
scott
just looking to get outa the 16s... and have that 6lbs or so of boost to help get up onto the freeway..on this car, a wolf is definitly outa the price question. im looking at throwing together a turbo kit for like around 500-600 bucks non intercooled, basically with used parts..
scott
10-15-01, 11:52 AM
#12
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Get a Volvo 7-series intercooler for the setup. Do not run without an intercooler. No reason to when you can get that intercooler out of your local junkyard for very cheap.
10-15-01, 11:59 AM
#13
Engine, Not Motor
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Why not just use the stock TII turbo? The manifold bolts right up, but as VtekEater said, an adapter is needed so the turbo clears the ACV. I will be contacting VtekEater about acquiring one of these adapters shortly...
10-15-01, 01:09 PM
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I am not absolutely positive but I believe that I saw a 89-91 turbo bolted on a N/A awhile back and it cleared the stock N/A intake. I know for a fact that the 87-88 will not clear the intake.
Anyone able to verify the 89-91?
Anyone able to verify the 89-91?
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