Getting ready to clean up my shoddy body work, need some suggestions.
06-28-05, 08:31 PM
#1
XBL** Ownicus
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Getting ready to clean up my shoddy body work, need some suggestions.
When I bought my GXL it was pretty rusted. The rockers had large holes in them and so did the front quarters and the areas behind the rear wheels.
I cut all the rust off and laid a few layers of fiberglass over the holes, slobbered some bondo on there and snaded + painted everything up again. Nothing has rusted through again and it looks about 10-feet clean, but if you look closly you can see that the rockers 'wave' a bit and the front quarters don't look right becuase they don't curve under that 1/2" or so that they once did.
I'm thinking of cutting out some of the old glass work and glueing then cuting some of that pink insulation foam to make up the shape I want and to fill in the hole. I was then going to glass over it and trim and visible portions off and paint again. I already did compatability tests between the resin and the foam and there will be no problem with it getting eaten up or not curing correctly.
I'm also trying to snag some of the little aero flares for in front of the rear wheels and I already have a front lip I pulled at the junkers and will be painted the same color as the body. I'd like to fabricate some little wing pieces for the rear fender that would fill it out behind the wheel as well. I'd also like to paint the trim while I have it off for glass work.
I even photochopped it a bit today to see how it would generally look with proportions and such and it came out well (after on top, before on bottom of course):
I think it looks much better above, especially when all that front fender/rocker damage is fixed (it looks like someone ran up and over a curb and the car was resting on the rocker. It's the same damage on the other side.)
The thing I'm hoping to get from you guys is some input on how this is going to go and if there's a better way I can do things that don't involve welding which I cannot do because of lack of experience and equipment. I know guys like Dltreezan are gods with composites and would appreciate any of your inputs.
Oh yeah, here's what the damage was like when I got it:
Why can't people ever just wash the salt of their cars every week during the winter?
I cut all the rust off and laid a few layers of fiberglass over the holes, slobbered some bondo on there and snaded + painted everything up again. Nothing has rusted through again and it looks about 10-feet clean, but if you look closly you can see that the rockers 'wave' a bit and the front quarters don't look right becuase they don't curve under that 1/2" or so that they once did.
I'm thinking of cutting out some of the old glass work and glueing then cuting some of that pink insulation foam to make up the shape I want and to fill in the hole. I was then going to glass over it and trim and visible portions off and paint again. I already did compatability tests between the resin and the foam and there will be no problem with it getting eaten up or not curing correctly.
I'm also trying to snag some of the little aero flares for in front of the rear wheels and I already have a front lip I pulled at the junkers and will be painted the same color as the body. I'd like to fabricate some little wing pieces for the rear fender that would fill it out behind the wheel as well. I'd also like to paint the trim while I have it off for glass work.
I even photochopped it a bit today to see how it would generally look with proportions and such and it came out well (after on top, before on bottom of course):
I think it looks much better above, especially when all that front fender/rocker damage is fixed (it looks like someone ran up and over a curb and the car was resting on the rocker. It's the same damage on the other side.)
The thing I'm hoping to get from you guys is some input on how this is going to go and if there's a better way I can do things that don't involve welding which I cannot do because of lack of experience and equipment. I know guys like Dltreezan are gods with composites and would appreciate any of your inputs.
Oh yeah, here's what the damage was like when I got it:
Why can't people ever just wash the salt of their cars every week during the winter?
06-28-05, 09:10 PM
#2
Sounds like you have it figured out pretty well. I have 2 suggestions. Check with your autobody supplier, they should have a spray foam the you can fill the rockers with, trim down to shape and then glass over. The foam is not cheap, but it is also a structural foam like what is used in newer vehicles. The other suggestion is, don't use bondo, use the fiberglass/kevlar reinforced body putty for your first coat over the glass and most of the fill.
06-28-05, 09:27 PM
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I just went to my local hardware store and picked up insulating foam, same deal really. Trochoid is right, try to use the glass as much as possible. It'll keep stuff nice and hard.
06-28-05, 10:00 PM
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Here's a thread I particitpated in a while back called Project: Paint the 7. I went through my whole process of painting my car, including bodywork and whatnot. https://www.rx7club.com/interior-exterior-audio-26/project-paint-7-a-315662/
Summary: What I did for mine, was simply fill it in with fiberglass. I went through and drilled some holes all the way down the doors/quarters where I was filling in (to give the glass something to grip to), after I gave it a really rough sand nearly down to give some more grip the glass, then fill it up as much as possible with glass. cut it into strips and keep laying it on. Putty over the top, once you're close to smooth. You should NEVER, under ANY circumstance use more than 1/4" of putty, with 1/8" being the max that I use. The only thing this doesn't work well for is the bumpers, with "plastic welding' Being the only way to flush them up. That's the only part that I need to worry about yet, and I'm thinking that some S5 bumpers should be close enough.
Lemme know if you have any more questions.
Pictures of my job:
This is before I had my interior back together.
Summary: What I did for mine, was simply fill it in with fiberglass. I went through and drilled some holes all the way down the doors/quarters where I was filling in (to give the glass something to grip to), after I gave it a really rough sand nearly down to give some more grip the glass, then fill it up as much as possible with glass. cut it into strips and keep laying it on. Putty over the top, once you're close to smooth. You should NEVER, under ANY circumstance use more than 1/4" of putty, with 1/8" being the max that I use. The only thing this doesn't work well for is the bumpers, with "plastic welding' Being the only way to flush them up. That's the only part that I need to worry about yet, and I'm thinking that some S5 bumpers should be close enough.
Lemme know if you have any more questions.
Pictures of my job:
This is before I had my interior back together.
06-28-05, 10:17 PM
#5
I ran across this on the Aussie site, hope it helps with the final finish.
Body filler Repairs
Ensure all paint and old filler is completely removed prior to applying more body filler. Sand the bare metal area to be filler with some 36 grit paper to give the filler something to cling to.
Mix filler in a 1:50 ratio, 1 part hardener to 50 parts filler. When mixing body filler try not to fold air into the mix, as this will contribute to pin holing. Use a piece of clean wood or an old chopping board to mix filler on, not cardboard as it is flexible and annoying and it is also
When laying down the filler use a proper applicator, metal or plastic is fine.
Apply the filler in one continuous sweep across the dent, don’t start applying from the middle or go over one area again. if more filler in needed start from one end and sweep across the area again.
Hold your applicator fairly flat to the surface, this will stop the filler catching and lifting up again as you sweep across (there really is an art in applying filler)
Don’t be shy, fill er up, nothing worse than sanding, realising there is a low spot and having to re-apply. Filler also shrinks as it hardens.
Buy yourself a speed file. They're a long block, about 30-40 cm long and 5-6 cm wide with handles. your can buy speedfile papers to go on it as well. This will ensure you keep everything flat.
Speed file
Start with 36-grit paper until the shape is roughly right and then work through the grits down to 120. ie, 36, 60, 80, 120. Note these are all dry papers, never wet sand bodyfiller as it will hold the water and rust later on.
Follow body lines and sand in a diagonal criss-cross pattern with the occasional sweep across longways. If there is a curve in the panel you are filling sand the same way as the curve. eg, a gen 1 door, hold the speed file horizontal
Run your hands across the repair frequently felling to see if there are any low or high spots and that the filler is taking the right shape. If you can feel its wrong, it will show in the final coats, no matter how right it “looks”. Even if you can only barely feel it, it need more work.
When the right shape is apparent, check for pinholes, if there are any use a little filler to fill them (slightly overfill as filler shrinks when it hardens). Then sand them down so they are flat again (you do need to over fill and sand you can’t just sweep a little in, or it will show)
After pinholes are sorted check to see if your edges are all feathered right, if they are harsh like what you get when you sand them with 36 grit, use a small block and some 240 dry grit paper to feather them in smoothly.
Now, your filler is all shaped up.
If there is paint around the repair area use some 240 dry grit paper (and a small block, always use a block) to feather the edges flat. Sand about 5cm into the painted area with some 400 dry grit paper to take the “shine” off of the paint.
Mask the around the area to be primed (all of which should have been sanded at some stage in the process (if not sand it now with 400dry grit). When masking an area in the middle of a panel, use a soft edge masking method, to achieve this;
Lay your masking tape down the opposite way to you normally would (um actually too hard to explain, pictures speak a thousand words, let me get my digi out.)
Lay tape down like so, holding up inner edge.
Lay paper down like so, should be raised slightly to eliminate a hard edge.
Now you are ready to use some primer/filler to prepare the surface.
Mix up your primer as per directions, usually a 50/50 mix is adequate for this (half primer filler, half acrylic thinners) (assuming acrylic by the way)
Spray in an even pattern moving from side to side, not stopping in the middle, not going backwards at all (keep moving forwards, fix it in the next coat)
Overlap your strokes slightly to keep the paint wet (but not too wet)
Um, piccy time I thinks.
I cant explain this one, just try an figure my logic out please.
Apply three or four fairly heavy coats to the repair area (allow about five minutes between coats for the thinners to evaporate out a little before the next coat). Then using a small amount of acrylic black paint (or whatever colour you got) apply a guide coat, this is a coat which will be sanded off again, it’s used to show low spots when you sand the area. Buy a touch up can of black paint if you have none laying around like I do.
Don’t spray this coat on heavy at all, as light as you can possibly get it. Turn your air pressure up and thin your paint down lots. Hold your gun like half a meter away and just let the paint kinda spot onto the surface. This is all you need.
This is what your paint should look like
Wait a day or two for the paint to completely dry (or wack your infrared lights on it and bake it for 15 mins if you got the right equipment) Now un-mask the area.
Now using a flat block and some 600 grit wet paper and plenty of water (or 400 dry grit) sand the area until all of the guide coat is gone and all the edges are feathered good. Don’t let your water get too dirty for this, a hose trickling or a spray bottle is good.
If you accidentally sand through the primer, spot prime the area (two or three light coats) and add a guide coat to that area again, wait a few hours for this to dry and sand again using 600 wet grit and plenty of water.
Wipe off the area with some wax and grease remover (use two cloths, one to wipe on, one to wipe dry (just read the directions on the can it’ll tell you what I mean)) and your ready to paint your top coats.
Handy hint; when you wipe the area with wax and grease remover, it will create a shine on the area which can be used to check your work for dents or imperfections (ie. If u stuffed up)
Ill finish this some other time, explaining how to blend into your other paint.
Good luck
Body filler Repairs
Ensure all paint and old filler is completely removed prior to applying more body filler. Sand the bare metal area to be filler with some 36 grit paper to give the filler something to cling to.
Mix filler in a 1:50 ratio, 1 part hardener to 50 parts filler. When mixing body filler try not to fold air into the mix, as this will contribute to pin holing. Use a piece of clean wood or an old chopping board to mix filler on, not cardboard as it is flexible and annoying and it is also
When laying down the filler use a proper applicator, metal or plastic is fine.
Apply the filler in one continuous sweep across the dent, don’t start applying from the middle or go over one area again. if more filler in needed start from one end and sweep across the area again.
Hold your applicator fairly flat to the surface, this will stop the filler catching and lifting up again as you sweep across (there really is an art in applying filler)
Don’t be shy, fill er up, nothing worse than sanding, realising there is a low spot and having to re-apply. Filler also shrinks as it hardens.
Buy yourself a speed file. They're a long block, about 30-40 cm long and 5-6 cm wide with handles. your can buy speedfile papers to go on it as well. This will ensure you keep everything flat.
Speed file
Start with 36-grit paper until the shape is roughly right and then work through the grits down to 120. ie, 36, 60, 80, 120. Note these are all dry papers, never wet sand bodyfiller as it will hold the water and rust later on.
Follow body lines and sand in a diagonal criss-cross pattern with the occasional sweep across longways. If there is a curve in the panel you are filling sand the same way as the curve. eg, a gen 1 door, hold the speed file horizontal
Run your hands across the repair frequently felling to see if there are any low or high spots and that the filler is taking the right shape. If you can feel its wrong, it will show in the final coats, no matter how right it “looks”. Even if you can only barely feel it, it need more work.
When the right shape is apparent, check for pinholes, if there are any use a little filler to fill them (slightly overfill as filler shrinks when it hardens). Then sand them down so they are flat again (you do need to over fill and sand you can’t just sweep a little in, or it will show)
After pinholes are sorted check to see if your edges are all feathered right, if they are harsh like what you get when you sand them with 36 grit, use a small block and some 240 dry grit paper to feather them in smoothly.
Now, your filler is all shaped up.
If there is paint around the repair area use some 240 dry grit paper (and a small block, always use a block) to feather the edges flat. Sand about 5cm into the painted area with some 400 dry grit paper to take the “shine” off of the paint.
Mask the around the area to be primed (all of which should have been sanded at some stage in the process (if not sand it now with 400dry grit). When masking an area in the middle of a panel, use a soft edge masking method, to achieve this;
Lay your masking tape down the opposite way to you normally would (um actually too hard to explain, pictures speak a thousand words, let me get my digi out.)
Lay tape down like so, holding up inner edge.
Lay paper down like so, should be raised slightly to eliminate a hard edge.
Now you are ready to use some primer/filler to prepare the surface.
Mix up your primer as per directions, usually a 50/50 mix is adequate for this (half primer filler, half acrylic thinners) (assuming acrylic by the way)
Spray in an even pattern moving from side to side, not stopping in the middle, not going backwards at all (keep moving forwards, fix it in the next coat)
Overlap your strokes slightly to keep the paint wet (but not too wet)
Um, piccy time I thinks.
I cant explain this one, just try an figure my logic out please.
Apply three or four fairly heavy coats to the repair area (allow about five minutes between coats for the thinners to evaporate out a little before the next coat). Then using a small amount of acrylic black paint (or whatever colour you got) apply a guide coat, this is a coat which will be sanded off again, it’s used to show low spots when you sand the area. Buy a touch up can of black paint if you have none laying around like I do.
Don’t spray this coat on heavy at all, as light as you can possibly get it. Turn your air pressure up and thin your paint down lots. Hold your gun like half a meter away and just let the paint kinda spot onto the surface. This is all you need.
This is what your paint should look like
Wait a day or two for the paint to completely dry (or wack your infrared lights on it and bake it for 15 mins if you got the right equipment) Now un-mask the area.
Now using a flat block and some 600 grit wet paper and plenty of water (or 400 dry grit) sand the area until all of the guide coat is gone and all the edges are feathered good. Don’t let your water get too dirty for this, a hose trickling or a spray bottle is good.
If you accidentally sand through the primer, spot prime the area (two or three light coats) and add a guide coat to that area again, wait a few hours for this to dry and sand again using 600 wet grit and plenty of water.
Wipe off the area with some wax and grease remover (use two cloths, one to wipe on, one to wipe dry (just read the directions on the can it’ll tell you what I mean)) and your ready to paint your top coats.
Handy hint; when you wipe the area with wax and grease remover, it will create a shine on the area which can be used to check your work for dents or imperfections (ie. If u stuffed up)
Ill finish this some other time, explaining how to blend into your other paint.
Good luck
06-28-05, 11:03 PM
#6
XBL** Ownicus
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Wow Trochoid, thanks for all the handy info. 
I'll definatly put that to good use, especially the speed file. I think thats a tool that would ahve saved me from having alot of these goofy little waves all over the rockers.
I don't have a compressor and spray gun either so I have been using the touch-up paints you purchase at any automotive store. They actually match pretty damn well. I just wet sand the crap out of them and use a few good coats and they match the color and sheen of the original paint pretty well.
I'll definatly put that to good use, especially the speed file. I think thats a tool that would ahve saved me from having alot of these goofy little waves all over the rockers.I don't have a compressor and spray gun either so I have been using the touch-up paints you purchase at any automotive store. They actually match pretty damn well. I just wet sand the crap out of them and use a few good coats and they match the color and sheen of the original paint pretty well.
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06-29-05, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by trochoid
Thank you gentlemen. If you only knew what I have gone though, and learned, putting a widebody kit on my 1st gen, You would think I was crazy.
I am.
I am.
I went through the same thing just doing all the body work on my car.. I can't wait to see how much fun it is when I put a body kit on it...
06-29-05, 02:20 PM
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i bought a book on car painting a while ago, its time to go find it and get even more motivated than i currently am. By the way, the other thread about russ painting his seven with all of wonko's advice in it needs to be archived if it isnt yet.
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