CyberPitz

Well, since one of my friends has taken an interest on the dead NA in my back yard, and has some engine in his garage, he wants to use my NA as a shell. Only thing is, he can't take it home unless it's running. SO, don't care about how well it's running, just need to drive it across town, haha. Anyway, doing the usual things to get it running.

1.) New oil, *Sadly, still gotta change the oil filter, but I can't get that damned thing off...*
2.) New coolant
3.) Put some gas in her.

Now, still isn't starting, sadly. I took the plugs out, and cranked the car, and all 3 seals are still intact, as I'm hearing/feeling the 3 strong pulses on both rotors. I'm going to try to put some oil in the lower plug holes and try that...but after looking at the spark plugs after trying to start the engine, I'm not seeing/feeling any gas on them. If I'm not mistaken *Wouldn't surprise em if I was..*, the plugs should have at least a small amount of gas on them. So, first thing I did was tried to see if I was getting spark *just to make sure* and the way I was doing it was taking the spark plug out, cranking the engine, and trying to touch a metal item for spark. I could be wrong in thinking that's how you do it. Now, the other thing I was wanting to know is how would I check if fuel is actually moving through? Should I undo a fuel line and crank and see?

Trying to search for "How to test for spark" or "How to test for fuel" or anything of that nature is difficult, as it brings up millions of regular threads, haha. Anyway, any sort of help/warnings would be great. First time I've ever done this much work that car, so it's kind of a learning experience too. I'm enjoying the **** out of it.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Testing for spark is easy.

Grab a spare spark plug and pull off a leading wire. Connect the wire to the spare plug and then lay it on a metal part of the engine. If it keeps slipping, a small jumper cable clipped to the hex section of the plug and some petal on the car will help. Crank. Do you see spark?

Checking for fuel is easy as well. Are the plugs wet after cranking? If yes, then there's fuel. Alternativly, you can spray some fuel into the throttle body and then crank the car. If it now starts, you are not getting fuel to the engine.

To remove the stuck oil filter, jam a screwdriver through it and use it as a lever.

CyberPitz

OK, going straight for the test spark. Took the plugs out, and weren't getting spark at the plugs. So I was going to test to see if it was the pack or plugs were bad. I took the Leading pack off the NA, and took it to my TII. just swapped the plugs, and the car turned on JUST fine. I questioned about if the Trailing pack would still turn the car on with a bad Leading pack. So I unplugged the Trailing, and the car would not turn over now. So the new question right now is, does the Leading pack even turn the car over at all, or is it used for "During running conditions"?

NoDOHC

Either Pack will start the car, but they are both required for emmissions.

CyberPitz

OK, thanks DOHC. That's what I wanted to hear. So, thus far, we have 1 dead Leading coil, and time to test the rear.

And luckily, in MO, we don't have emissions

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Before assuming the leading coil pack is bad, check for 12V at the black/yellow on the leading coil plug wire with the key set to IGN. The check the actual coil pack itself for 12V at it's two low voltage terminals.

CyberPitz

OK, whenever I can get my hands on a voltmeter, I'll have to do that, Aaron. Thanks for the tip. So far, I took the Leading out, put it in the TII, wouldn't start it. Took the Trailing to the TII still wouldn't start it. Figured I'd take the Trailing pack from my TII, and plug it into the NA and see if it would do anything. Nope. Wasn't even getting a spark. So with that in mind, I may need new plugs/wires too. That sound like a sound judgment?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You can't troubleshoot anything electrical without a volt meter.

To me it sounds like the coil packs are not being powered. If they work in the TII but not the NA, then the packs are fine.

CyberPitz

nonono, I guess I may have been confusing with my wording, as it probably sucked.

The packs WOULDN'T power the TII, unfortunately. After trying to crank it over for a few seconds, I plugged the Leading in, and unplugged the Trailing *Trailing being the one from the NA*, and the car started...albeit, with a bunch of gas being burnt, so smoke flying out the tailpipe....

Did that make sense, or am I still being dumb?

NoDOHC

But the turbo II packs will not make spark in the NA or that it just won't run?

CyberPitz

TII packs did not spark while in the NA.

NoDOHC

It is possible that you have blown a fuse due to the bad coil (I believe that it is bad from your description).

Let me see if I have the story straight.

TEST RESULT
NA Leading in TII ---------------> Did not spark
NA Trailing in TII ---------------> Did not spark
TII Leading in NA ---------------> (I can't tell for sure but it doesn't really matter)
TII Trailing in NA ---------------> Did not spark

Now assuming that you swapped all three connectors (both spark wires and the control wires), this indicates to me that you had at least one bad coil, but you also have another problem, because known good coils do not work either.

I really wish you had a test light or a multimeter or something.

Can you try to listen to the injectors and see if they are firing? You should be able to hold an extension or something on the pulsation dampener and hear them fire.

Is there any chance that you have connected the spark wires incorrectly on any of these setups?

CyberPitz

Well, I didn't know which way was correct, until I figured it out afterwards, but I tried it one way, then swapped it and tried the other way. I wish I had a multimeter as well, haha. I'm not sure what the injectors would sound like wh en they were working, but I figured as soon as I got some spark, then I would work on the next step in my book...checking for fuel. I'm not even sure that it's getting fuel, since the last person who was going to buy it, ran it dry of gas, then dumped it on my lap again. And I know how the pumps/filter/whatever like to die when ran dry as it gets clogged up from the crap in the tank. I figure that might be something that happened.

Anyway, I should be getting a multimeter sometime this week from a roommate. After I decide if they are getting power or not, that will help narrow some things down.

NoDOHC

If I were you, I would buy one. Seriously, if you intend to own an RX7 (which you have two right now) or assist your friend in an engine swap (don't tell us what is going in there) you should have a multimeter.

They cost somewhere between 20 and 40 dollars at Sears, radio shack, Autozone, etc.

As far as the coil packs go, I seriously doubt that both coils on the NA car failed at exactly the same time. My guess is that you have one failed coil and you have a blown fuse, due to the one coil failing. There is also a small chance that there is nothing wrong with the coils and some other fluke make the above result table.

Either way, the known good coil did not work either, which is pretty indicative of a blown fuse.

I am pretty surethat you have the coil grounded for it to operate, this could explain none of the coils appearing to work. Maybe Hailers will stop by and tell us for sure if the coils require a ground to fire. This might explain everything.

CyberPitz

Oh yeah, believe you me, I know I need one. Was actually gonna go buy one today, but my roomate was like, "Why buy? I've got one at my moms house that you can use." So I figured, hey, save some money here and there, the rebuild/streetport for my TII will be that much faster

And yeah, since the working coil didn't work, I figured something big must be up. As for the fuse being blown...which fuse works the coil pack. I tried to look through the FSM/search, but I must be doing it horribly wrong.

*EDIT* BTW, I was checking through the FSM, and saw that the Leading/Trailing spark plugs are supposed to be different models. Now I know that doesn't help the coils problem, but this could be a future one. SHOULD they be different? They are both the SD 11A (trailing) plugs. I hope that isn't an issue.

NoDOHC

Yes, the one is a 7 heat and the other is a 9.

I think you can use the 9 for both.

Just get them from Advance, I think $12.00 for 4 plugs.

Did you ground the TII coil pack on the NA and the NA coil packs on the TII? By ground I mean securely connect the body of the coil to the body of the car.

Mostly, it is the EGI fuse (the one closest to the engine in front of the driver shock tower.)

CyberPitz

The EGI fuse looked good to me, though further inspection may be required.

I have the "Trailing" plugs in all 4, the ones with the blue stripes.

I did not ground them securely. They were touching some metal at all times, but just leaning on it.

CyberPitz

OK, I know this is a bump, my bad, but I figured I'd give a bit more info.

We checked the fuse, and there is no resistance on it. Out of curiosity, we got the EGI fuse from the TII *working* and it still didn't give us a spark or fuel on the plugs.

Are there any other plugs that I'm missing that would cause this. I'm starting to wonder what's going on with this beast.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

ok..the Fuse would have ZERO resistance.,since it is like a Wire..and Think of it as Basically Touching the Leads together on the OHM Meter..now if the Fuse was SHOT..then the Ohm meter wouldn't even move...Suggestion: go into the SEC GEN ARCHIVES,on forum..take a look at Info there,pertaining to Starting the car after Storage,and starting the car after Rebuild..you put just those two threads together,you should be able to get things under control.

CyberPitz

Sadly, after scouring the archives, I couldn't find anything that I wasn't already told/tried/etc. Too bad my problem is about fuel and spark, since every thread contains one or both of those words, so searching is difficult.

So, since the EGI fuse is OK, are there any other fuses that controls the spark and fuel? I tried to look around, but nothing I could see stuck out like a sore thumb, unfortunately.