getting an alignment with aftermarket suspension
04-03-09, 04:18 PM
#26
Its pointless to have toe out on the rear, since it has to do alot with the steering feel. A lil toe in on the rear will help with directional stability, even if the front is out a bit.
For a street car, I'd have the shop get as much negative camber out of the rear as they can (which wont be much) and set my front even or maybe a degree more than whatever the rear is at (barring an extreme case like -4+ degrees). I'd go zero or -1/16th toe in up front and -1/16th in back.
For the record: I'm at -3 deg camber and 0 toe up front and -2 and -1/16th in the rear. Mainly auto-x setup. My V710s love the camber, street tires... not so much. Definitely thinking about doing some toe out next time I get it aligned.
For a street car, I'd have the shop get as much negative camber out of the rear as they can (which wont be much) and set my front even or maybe a degree more than whatever the rear is at (barring an extreme case like -4+ degrees). I'd go zero or -1/16th toe in up front and -1/16th in back.
For the record: I'm at -3 deg camber and 0 toe up front and -2 and -1/16th in the rear. Mainly auto-x setup. My V710s love the camber, street tires... not so much. Definitely thinking about doing some toe out next time I get it aligned.
04-03-09, 08:54 PM
#27
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I disagree with the get as much out of the rear as possible advice, given that 1. he has coilovers which will lower his car, and by extension, increase the rear negative camber and 2. he has and unadjusted RB center camber link adjuster.
With that setup, maxing out the rear camber could easily put him at -3.0 degrees in the rear! Way too much camber.
With that setup, maxing out the rear camber could easily put him at -3.0 degrees in the rear! Way too much camber.
04-03-09, 09:56 PM
#28
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pretty much agreeing with roen.
in the rear -1 camber is good, if you can get it, its very ride height dependent. with DTSS bushings, the hub toes in for every force, so zero is good, cause when the car is moving it'll be in a little.
without the DTSS bushing a little toe in is good. toe in in the rear will make it stable.
in the front on a street car i'm liking 0 toe, or just slightly in, and somewhere between -1 to -2 camber. the harder you drive the more camber you'll want. caster isnt adjustable, but you want as much as you can get.
since you've made everything adjustable, make sure they spend a little time and get it right, it makes a difference. so you want thrust angle in the rear to be zero, maybe with some weight in the driver seat.
my car is stock suspension, i'm running 0 toe all the way around and it goes straight on the freeway, at least as straight as the pavement is....
in the rear -1 camber is good, if you can get it, its very ride height dependent. with DTSS bushings, the hub toes in for every force, so zero is good, cause when the car is moving it'll be in a little.
without the DTSS bushing a little toe in is good. toe in in the rear will make it stable.
in the front on a street car i'm liking 0 toe, or just slightly in, and somewhere between -1 to -2 camber. the harder you drive the more camber you'll want. caster isnt adjustable, but you want as much as you can get.
since you've made everything adjustable, make sure they spend a little time and get it right, it makes a difference. so you want thrust angle in the rear to be zero, maybe with some weight in the driver seat.
my car is stock suspension, i'm running 0 toe all the way around and it goes straight on the freeway, at least as straight as the pavement is....
04-04-09, 12:25 AM
#29
Ah yes, make sure you have the representative weight in the car when you do the alignment, i.e. the weight that your car experiences most of the time.
For example, I usually carry a tool kit, a trolley jack, a breaker bar and a torque wrench with me when I drive my RX-7. I usually ride alone as well. To be really ****, I spend most of my time driving between 1/4 and 1/2 tank. I usually race at 1/4 tank. When I go to the alignment shop, I put about 1/4 tank of gas, sit in the driver's seat, or put enough weights/sandbags that equal my weight in the driver's seat, and keep my tool kit and other tools in the car as well. When I align the car before the track, I'll make sure my car has only the essentials so that it's in the exact form it would be in to race (i.e. no spare tire, no jack, no nothing).
Moral of the story: When you align your car, you want to bring the car in a state that represents most of your driving to get the best benefits out of your alignment.
For example, I usually carry a tool kit, a trolley jack, a breaker bar and a torque wrench with me when I drive my RX-7. I usually ride alone as well. To be really ****, I spend most of my time driving between 1/4 and 1/2 tank. I usually race at 1/4 tank. When I go to the alignment shop, I put about 1/4 tank of gas, sit in the driver's seat, or put enough weights/sandbags that equal my weight in the driver's seat, and keep my tool kit and other tools in the car as well. When I align the car before the track, I'll make sure my car has only the essentials so that it's in the exact form it would be in to race (i.e. no spare tire, no jack, no nothing).
Moral of the story: When you align your car, you want to bring the car in a state that represents most of your driving to get the best benefits out of your alignment.
04-04-09, 09:35 AM
#30
im gonna go talk to the place today. i think im gonna try...
front
-1.5 degrees camber
-1/16 toe in
rear
-1.0 degrees camber
-1/16 toe in
it will probably be another couple weeks before i get my car in there to get it done. hopefully this shop is able/willing to do it.
front
-1.5 degrees camber
-1/16 toe in
rear
-1.0 degrees camber
-1/16 toe in
it will probably be another couple weeks before i get my car in there to get it done. hopefully this shop is able/willing to do it.
04-04-09, 09:42 AM
#31
Any good alignment shop will already know all of this. I know my alignment machine that I use figures out the specs based on weight and ride height. It will tell you if you have to put weight in the vehicle. It will also tell you how much, and where the weight needs to be. I also agree, you should bring your car to the shop just the way you would drive it. Anything that is normally in your car while you would drive it, leave it in there. They will also adjust your camber to compensate for road crown. You should ideally have .25 of a degree lead to the left. If you make your camber exactly the same on both sides your car will pull to the right going down the road.
04-05-09, 11:20 AM
#32
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With coil overs there is a really good chance that you will want to run the smallest stock rear anti-sway bar or none at all. The RB rear bar with the adjustable endlinks works really well with the RB or stock springs but not with coil overs. With a strong rear sway bar and coil overs on these cars you are essentially disabling your independent suspension. You will be an oversteering monster that spins the inside rear wheel like crazy. Don't worry about body roll and overall balance..........you will be better off with no rear bar.
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