WHO CARES? its his car its his money.....we have no point to tell him what to do

 

That is an interesting concept.
I like it.

 

Hah! Well my original statment refered to Sports cars and not "Sporty Cars", there is a difference Mr. Bogusfile. For example: an Rx-7 is a sports car, an Acura Integra is a sporty car.

The RX-3 was not a sports car, and the NSU spider never saw MASS production (In the first two years of production only 600 cars were produced, the total production run yielded a little over 3,000 cars).

Nice agruement though
Isaac

 

Hey, thank you for the encouraging words man. These "V8 debates" usually turn into little 'ol me arguing with 5 or 6 people who love the engine swaps.

I did know about all of those rotary cars that were produced prior to the RX-7, but you were right about the sports cars among them never seeing mass production.

If you haven't already, check into buying "The Wankel Rotary Engine: a history" by John B. Hege. The book is awesome and I learned so much about all the various rotary applications over the years by reading it.

Anyway happing motoring dude,
Isaac

 

By posting in a public forum he is presenting his project for the advice and opinions of others, whether they be positive or negative .

If he has a problem with that, he can choose not to post in the future. WHO CARES!
Isaac

 

RIght, I did indeed post in a public forum, which did in turn open my post up to comments and opnions, both positive and negative, and advice that may or may not be on topic (ie. go buy a f-body). However by posting in a public forum with questions seeking information I have relied on the integrity and manners of the people on this board, obviously in some cases my confidence was misplaced.
Can someone provide me with some information as to how cable/hydraulic trannys differ in their construction, function, reliability, etc. Like i said earlier me and trannys have not had many run ins , and aparrently I am incompetant at finding technical diagrams/explainations online.
Can you also tell me what years of the 3.909 rear had vicsous LSDs and which had Clutch types (if any had either)
Thanks again to all attempting to provde useful information despite the raging **** storm in here.

 

The path of the fastest RX-7 is beset on all sides by the inequities of displacement and the weakness of apex seals. Blessed is he, who only in the name of knowledge and torque, shepherds the stupid through the valley of ricers, for he is truly his chassis's keeper and the finder of reliability. And I will strike down upon thee with great clouds of tire smoke and furious traction those who would attempt to poison and dissuade my V8 brothers. And you will know my name is Futant when I lay my small block V8 inside thee.

 

let me just say get your flamesuit ready becuz that is the most riciest quote i have heard by far... you stright up took the rice outta the rice bag and sprinkled it all over yourself by saying that...
v8 + rx7 =

 

Pulp Fiction, I love it! I thought I was the only person that memorized that verse, but aparrently not!

 

I'm not sure what's funnier - mine or IMPORTBOI (lol)
telling me
"stright up took the rice outta the rice bag and sprinkled it all over yourself by saying that..."

jeez 4point harnesses in a car that runs 13's at best!
no offense importboi your car is very nice, it's just the irony is great. And yes I know alot about rotaries, I used to be a rotorhead.

 

Hey how much does a used-decent condition 13b (from an 88, 97k) with tranny usuall go for? I tried searching the for sale adds without much luck.

 

If you were indeed once a "rotorhead", as you claim, then you would know that the apex seals are not the weakest point on a rotary, a careless/ignorant owner is!

Or are you too ashamed, possibly due to past experiences, to admit to that?
Isaac

 

Oh no, we hurt his feelings everybody!

Listen, if you want people to praise you for your "wonderful" swap ideas go to V8RX-7.com, I hear the people there are reaaal nice

Isaac

 

ummmm if you notice i also have suspension mods..... hrm have you ever been auto-Xing? i think not if you have then you will love 4pt belts i cant stand the stock belts it doesnt hold you down in a racing seat for CRAP!! ( but a racing holds you down pretty good by itself ) and if you wanna talk ish on a racing seat?? trying hoping in a stock seat t2 when your almost 6 foot tall and you got short legs and a long body and a nice shiney helmet on...... then you will understand my setup it fits me like noone else and i love it! Im trying to make an all around fast car twisties or stright....

 

Well I guess there are a LOT of careless ignorant owners then. A 400HP turbo rotary will last 150K miles no problem

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BlackSport0187


If you were indeed once a "rotorhead", as you claim, then you would know that the apex seals are not the weakest point on a rotary, a careless/ignorant owner is!

Or are you too ashamed, possibly due to past experiences, to admit to that?
Isaac
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I would have to say that carbon build-up, due to oil injection, is probably the weakest point on a rotary engine. However, this leads (among other things) directly to apex failure. This has nothing to do with a "careless/ignorant" owner although there are a lot of them out there too.

I have run a lot of different engines in my time including straight six, v6, v8, rotary, vw etc. and out of all of them the most reliable are probably imports (I have a Honda right now that has 212,000 miles and does not use any oil, starts up every time and gets around 40 MPG), with domestics being second, however, the rotary would have to come last on the list.

Now do not start flaming me yet, I love the rotary engine and have since around the age of 8, when I purchased my first model engine of a rotary. It had real moving parts and battery powered lights that would blink on the compression stroke. It is a very unique engine and there are no others like it.

It is the coolest thing to run somebody that knows nothing about rotaries and show them that a little 1.3 can stomp their bigger engines butt, but I would never trust a helicopter with a rotary engine (although, there are a lot of them out there).

Power, size, maintenance, mpg, looks, are not big issues when it comes to the rotary, BUT...money and reliability ARE, and anyone with half a wit of a brain can see that the rotary costs lots of $$$ compared to a lot of other engines and no matter how well it is built, one good "Ping" and it is gone.

Now, you can start flaming me, but I have one request first, use logical arguments to support yourself and not stupid, non-fact based opinions.

 

YES, THERE ARE A LOT OF CARLESS AND IGNORANT OWNERS OUT THERE. But actually, I was refering to stock rotary engines.

I can't really comment on 400hp rotaries because neither I nor you have ever owned or maintained one.

Now, if Mazda made a rotary that was the size of your V8, I wonder what kind of power it would make? Does anyone know the size of the 787B's engine?

Keep in mind that a 1.3 liter pushing 400hp puts a lot more stress on the engine then say a 5.0 V8 making the same power figure. Not an excuse, just something to keep in mind.

Isaac

 

That was a very logical list of arguments.

Carbon build-up can be taken care of by the "ATF Trick" that RX-7 owners use frequently. I also hear that carbon build-up can be minimized by redlining the engine every once and a while, but I don't know if that really works or not. So, I would attribute at least some of the blame for carbon build-up to a careless and ignorant owner.

I'm sorry to hear that the rotary comes last on your list. Have you ever owned a first generation RX-7? Or any non-turbocharged second generation RX-7? I think a modern naturally-aspirated wankel would impress you with its reliabilty. We'll have to wait and see how the new Renesis engine in the RX-8 holds up as well. It's also important to keep in mind that the rotary has seen far less development time and certainly less mass production in comparison to the engines on the top of your list.

Rotaries cost more due to their unique parts. I see that as the price you pay for the awesome technology and power to weight ratio.

It's been nice chatting with you,
Isaac

 

Alright, I'll try to help here. I'm pretty sure you wont find a 3.909 diff with LSD. The 3.909 came in cars with automatics, and in all 1988 convertibles. You MIGHT find a GXL with lsd and an auto, but it won't be easy to do so.

The 1986-1988 cars, IF they had LSD, were the clutch type. Both the TII and NA cars had the same gear ratio and the same TYPE of LSD, but they are NOT interchangeable. The TII is beefier all the way around.

The NA differential and axle shafts will probably not hold up to the torque of a V8, unless it is just a stock 200hp version or so. The TII only has a 4.30:1 optional ratio, or the 4.10:1 found in ALL US TII models. (The 4.30:1 gearset was never installed STOCK in a US TII, only in the Japanese Infini, but it is a direct bolt-in) The 3.909 gearset SHOULD fit the LSD differentials, but I am not positive of that. The Viscous type LSD started in 1989.

To run a V8 in these cars and keep the RPM to a reasonable range, you are going to need a transmission with the tallest overdrive gear you can find for highway use. The average V8 does NOT like 4.10:1 gears for everyday use. (or V6 for that matter...) That's why Camaros, Mustangs, even Corvettes come with 2.73:1 or 3.23:1 ratios normally, even with the overdrive transmissions they use. You can overcome some of this with taller rear tires of course... but they are still going to turn 2500-3000 RPM on the highway... much higher than normal for a V8 powered car. (I think I turn about 2500 RPM at 70 MPH with slightly taller than stock tires, and a TII transmission and differential in my convertible. Maybe more like 2750, I haven't really checked it to be sure.)

With an internally stock V8, your top speed will be limited (by gearing) to about what the top speed is of a STOCK, NON-TURBO RX-7. (The non-turbo RX-7 hits that limit due to not having enough power to go any faster- not limited by gearing. Top speed in the NA RX-7 is reached in 4th, not in the overdrive 5th.)

Of course it'll be doggone quick from a standing start, or even accelerating from say a 45 mph roll... but it will run out of steam on the top end. Run it against a TII with that gearing and they will laugh at you when you scatter parts of your motor all over the highway by over-revving trying to stay with them on the top end.

Another issue is the suspension. The independent rear suspension in an RX-7 is NOT well suited to drag racing. The very factors that make it suited to road racing or autocross make it unsuited to drag. The wheels are free move up and down independently, and there is no direct impact from torque. A solid axle (like a camaro or mustang) twists in the opposite direction of the wheel, helping to "plant" the wheels to improve traction at launch. It takes a bigger, stickier tire to get the same kind of launch with an IRS-equipped RX-7.

If you want to drag race, a 1st gen is a better swap candidate, both because it is a solid axle rear end, and it is about 400 lbs lighter.

And for powerplant choices, if you MUST have a piston engine, a turbo V6 from a Buick GN would be a MUCH better choice to maintain the factory balance and handling, (it is both shorter, so it sits back further in the chassis, and lighter than a V8) while having immense power potential.

Brad

 

Ummmm... 4-point harnesses are not as important for people going in straight lines as they are for road racers. They help keep the driver firmly in his seat, thus helping to maintain control when cornering. Just thought a little education was in order, you obviously weren't aware of that.

Brad

 

I wasn't aware he autox , that is all.
and yes if you make enough power with rotary apex seals are obviously an important factor in the build. Clearly the tune is the most critical since rotary are so fuggin picky once they are that tuned. a 400hp rotary can make 150k , with 10,000 spark plug changes at 25bucks each. Besides anything more than 400hp it WOULDN'T last over 50K in MOST cases I know of, which brings me to the v8 concept.

 

Yeah, if a frog had wings...Etc

 

Actually a frog with wings is impossible, but a rotary the size of a V8 has been done before, however; the engines were early prototypes that didn't see mass production.

Do a little research pal,
Isaac

P.S. If you need concrete examples I can dig some up for you.

 

they didn't work due to flame travel and the size /shape of the rediculously long combustion chamber. I can't even imagine just how efficient they were

 

I did, Isaac.
I researched that it is not in production.
I wonder why.

PS: Your *** is showing. Grow up.