Hmmm... well, you already have a Talon, why not put a V8 in that? It would be pretty cool with AWD.

Brad

 

Not after you swap in a V8...

Again, why not swap the V8 into the DSM? It would have awesome launches, if you could keep the drivetrain in one piece.

Brad

 

He ASKED, and this is an RX-7 forum, not a V8 forum. And the Rotary sits behind the front wheels also, and is generally more compact, as well as having a LOWER center of mass. The only V8 RX-7 swaps that have the same weight distribution as the original are the ones that remove the AC and power steering and move the battery to the back to compensate for the extra weight. Then they get close.

Brad

 

Ok, I'll give you a better reason: It's CHEAPER and EASIER to get MORE horsepower than your measly 271 RWHP from your V8 swap, WITHOUT destroying the balance of the car or cutting a shitty looking hole in the hood. One of our local guys has his completed. Let's see... Rebuild with a street port, about $600. (did it himself, $600 for parts) Hybrid turbo about $700. SAFC $299. FCD about $10 to build. Exhaust- I dunno what he spent... my 3" single was about $300. TII hood probably $200, that seems to be the going rate. TII engine core, I'm not sure... let's assume he got an "import" engine, rather than finding a core in the junkyard... about $800. Probably $200 for the stock ECU, since his was not a turbo car to begin with. Now let's add it up: $3109, 326 RWHP on the dyno, daily driven 1989 'vert. How much was YOUR swap? And only 271 RWHP, more weight, and that hideous hole in the hood? Plus all the work to make everything fit right... sheesh.

Brad

 

Hi, my name is Mizeru, and I need to read the rules. NO FLAMES, warning #1.

Brad

 

Arcknight, where do you get off telling us what we can discuss on this forum? Their comments are on topic. And a 302 is considerably heavier than a 13BT.

Brad

 

Duplicate post, please drive through...

 

WOO HOO!!!!!

MODERATED!!

WHy cant we just kill this thread on the premise that its been discussed a million times already?

Jarrett

 

A complete 13B is approximately 290 lbs. Quite a bit less than the 460 lbs of the 302. Yes, the turbo adds a little weight... so do the dual exhaust manifolds of the V8, and the required extra exhaust piping.

Quote:

Ok this is gettin kinda ridiculous. Ok i dont need a touring car with slot handling because I will probably never be a top competitior in any road coarses or autocross tracks. I dont care about the extra weight a v8 brings over a rotary because I want the torque.

If you don't want the RX-7 for the handling, WHY do you want it? The styling? It looks an awfully like a Porsche 924/944. How about one of them for the same swap? Similar size, weight, handling, appearance, MORE "prestige," similar cost, and you would probably IMPROVE the weight distribution of one of them... it wouldn't hurt the handling.

Quote:

I dont think it was dumb to ask you because not only is this an rx-7 board with a lot of peopel with a lot of konwledge, but it would have taken me a much longer time to findo ut about torquecentral if i didnt come here. But the bottom line is it that were talking about my damn car, and I will ruin it if i want to. It is not your place to tell me what to do or convince me from doing it because I didnt ask for an opinion on whether I should do it or not. So Isaac if this topic bothers you so much, go post on some other thread and talk about how great the rotary is, please im trying to get constructive information and I would prefer not to fill this thread with more crap than is already on it. Repeat: this thread is not to talk about whether YOU care about the added torque a v8 brings and how it affects the handling.

And I will repeat, this thread is not for you to dictate what people can and cannot discuss. If you don't like what others are posting, (as long as they follow the rules and stay within the guidelines of the 2nd gen section,) too bad. They obviously don't like what you have to say either. Deal with it, or go elsewhere.

Brad

 

YES, its a RX-7 Forum, Not a "ONLY ROTARY POWERED RX-7 FORUM" geesh.
I mentioned it was still behind the front wheels, because most ignorant anti swappers, say "the V8 will ruin the weight because its not behind the wheels anymore.."

Of course they take out a/c, move the battery etc... its called modding, and we do that to make the balance almost the same as the stock rotary engined FC, to keep the Handleing just as good.

All the work to make everything fit right... not that hard.
Just wondering if this guy used the stock N/A vert tranny? Sounds like some accurate numbers, but over 3K.. wow.
My swap, 800 for fresh rebuilt SBC 355 HP and well over 400 tp (what does that vert have for torque?) , 600 for built 2004R tranny out of Grand national, 600 for custom driveshaft, engine mounts, tranny mount, and little necesities that i'll need.
thats about 2K...
Yeah, and I think i'm going to like my "hidous" hole cut in the hood, but ya know, its not totally necesary, get a good low profile intake, and it'll fit with a lil work.
that "measly" 271 horsepower, probably has a lot more torque than the ol 1 point 3.
and torque is fun
~matt

 

OK, now it just sounds like you're driving the V8 swappers away from the 7. Is this just because you personally don't like the swaps?
How in the world is the cost the same?
first of all you'll never find 944s as cheap as you can RX7s. Maybe a really crappy 924 you'll find for cheap.. but yeah, those definately don't look as good as a FC.
The swap in general is a lot more complicated in a 944/924 than the 7, plain and simple.
And the MOST important point is! I already have a FC! I had a perfectly maintained 72K mile autoslowmatic, and the rear apex's felt like going.
Why would I go buy a 944 because "its just about the same", when I LOVE the FC, and I already have one... hmm
~matt

 

oh, and wheres the logic on "it won't hurt the handling on the 944, but will KILL the handling on the RX-7"... I don't get it ragtop??
~matt

 

Super Moderator- I'm just wondering if theres any rules on this great forum about staying on topic at all? I mean you have to understand the guy came here for some help, and support. He doesn't care about the rotary purists FLOODING his thread with "anti swap bs". Do you agree at all with that?
~matt

 

I'm honestly not sure. That WOULD make a difference.

Quote:

My swap, 800 for fresh rebuilt SBC 355 HP and well over 400 tp (what does that vert have for torque?) , 600 for built 2004R tranny out of Grand national, 600 for custom driveshaft, engine mounts, tranny mount, and little necesities that i'll need.
thats about 2K...

Hmmm... so are we to infer that ANYONE can go out and buy a SBC, freshly rebuilt, for $800, no core charge or anything?

Quote:

Yeah, and I think i'm going to like my "hidous" hole cut in the hood, but ya know, its not totally necesary, get a good low profile intake, and it'll fit with a lil work.
that "measly" 271 horsepower, probably has a lot more torque than the ol 1 point 3.
and torque is fun
~matt

I really don't like the hood, but if you do, hey, it's your car. It looks a bit "redneck" to me. As for costs... I'm in the middle of the same swap. Let me quote you MY costs so far: TII parts car, $200. Had the full drivetrain, I'm going to "freshen" the engine and port it (about $600) and rebuild the turbo ($75 for the parts) and I'm putting on a T04B compressor section (cost me $179.) I may pay some one to clip the hot side, not sure. I spent about $250 on a stock-type clutch, it should be good to 300+ rwhp. I'm going to run a Supra (MK III) intercooler, (as a front mount) probably $150 + the piping, figure $250 total. I don't HAVE to do that, since I have the TII intercooler and hood, but I want to. 720cc secondaries, cost me about $200. I need either a SAFC or Greddy E-manage, either one about $299. And a $10 FCD. Let's see now... that comes to $2013. It should be good to about 300-325 RWHP, and be a reliable daily driver. The (slightly) heavier TII powerplant (the turbo adds maybe 25 lbs??) will offset removing the power steering (I run it without the belt anyway- I don't like power steering!) but the AC and all other power accessories remain. I'm about halfway through this- the drivetrain is already TII (flywheel back to the rear hubs, swapped the whole rear subframe) and by buying a non-driveable parts car I got EVERYTHING I need to do a stock swap. As for torque... the only torque that matters is what you see at the rear wheels. If you want more torque, lower the gearing. If you want less, raise it. I may go to a 4.30:1 differential, but I haven't decided yet... the 4.11 is fine for now. To put it another way, if you have 400 lb/ft of torque, and I have 300, but you run a 3.0:1 ratio and I run a 4.0:1 ratio, we are putting EXACTLY the same force to the rear wheels. (Now I know that you aren't running a 3.0:1 ratio, I'm just simplifying the math.) And we BOTH know that the rotary is capable of a lot more RPM without extensive mods. I'm pretty sure a "rebuilt" SBC that only cost $800 has a stock bottom-end, and probably stock valvetrain as well. You have the strength (or lack thereof) of the bottom end to contend with at higher RPM, as well as the issue of valve float. I suspect you would be well advised to keep your RPM below 6000. The 13B is good to 9000+ RPM in stock form before the flex of the eccentric shaft starts to become an issue, although the ports (in stock form) don't flow enough air to make that useable... but you don't really need to do that to make big HP. (I turn my stock 88 NA motor to about 7800 when racing.)

Brad

 

yep, you have some good points.
My engine is from a guy in town, Definately not stock, but yeah, not everyone could just find one for that price.
Its balanced up to about 6500, but thats about all I want to rev it.
On the torque issue, 90% of us swappers are using the stock mazda rear end. That means 4.11 with gobs of torque. Only problem with the mazda gearing, is a overdrive tranny (700R, 2004R) is almost manditory for a cruisin ride.
I like reading about budget buildups on rotarys also, that will be my next project
~matt

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlackSport0187
[B]
"No, I consider it to be off topic because it has to do with ruining an import with domestic power!"

Wow.... what a solid arguement. You win pal...

"But seriously, if you don't like the rotary you don't really like RX-7s."

Man do you write poetry... that was beautiful.

"The definiton of "Legendary" is certainly debatable. I would argue that the RX-7 is legendary because of it being the only sports car powered by a rotary to ever see mass production."

That is not true..... there were plenty of Sporty Cars powered by the rotary before the RX-7s time. Im sure you knew that though right.

"The rotary and the RX-7 still serve to mystify ignorant automotive enthusiasts and mechanics alike."

Yes there are many ignorant people out there who haven't realized that the Rotary engine is the only logical power plant for their race cars. And here I am thinking that the "pissed-on" powered Formula One cars were the pinnacle of automotive performance....
Untill you came along and enlightened me.

"Not to mention the fact that the Rx-7 has won the following:
GTO class, 24hrs of Daytona 10 times in a row.
From 1980 to 1990, 10 GTU manufacturers championships. (These are but a few examples)

How does that not make the RX-7 an automotive legend?"

Look dude. These are all great achievements and the RX-7 deserves every bit of credit it gets.... but there are many cars who have achieved similar success if not much better, and they continue to do so till this day.
Now some of my comments may lead some of you to believe that I don't care for rotaries..... that is untrue.
I like them very very much... and I know a good bit about them. Im just tired of watching crap dribble out of Black Sports mouth like an oil/coolant mixture from an FDs radiator cap on a 100 degree day. A little joke ha ha ha.

 

i'm new to this fourm but not to the automotive world, I've noticed a few things about this and other threads.

a) the people who have done and are looking to do V8 swaps really have a site to go to that is tailored to thier needs. It seems that most stick around and only post 'en masse' when one of these posts pops up. Do you V8 swap guys just cruise around looking to get into it ? very silly and entirely inspid fights rehashed ad nauseum.

b) the rx-7 purists or at least rotary lovers, know better as well, the first response on this topic SHOULD have been a moderator saying something like " you'll find all the info you need at v8rx7.com.." or whatever the site is. end of story and everyone walks away happy, the silly people wanting to swap out a perfectly good rotary have their site and the rotary guys have thier site..

c) my fathers company builds aircraft.. fast aircraft, long distance northern bush planes, multi seater long distance.. not one of them uses a V8 or a V6 or even an inline 6 .. They use Rotary's and radials. Why? power to weight ratio on the rotary is higher thier is no 30 degree negative stroke as will ALL piston driven engines so vibration and harshness is all but absent, the size of the package fits into a smaller cowling improving aerodynamics. Reliability has been proven over and over that a rotary is better in the long run on repairs and reliabilty then any non radial pistion driven aircraft..

From my point of view as a designer and builder of suspension systems and having worked with some of the best suspension builders in the world, the V8 in the engine bay of the FC WILL throw off all balance in the vehicle, if just for the fact that to fit the wide V into the engine bay you need to lift the balance line up @ 4 " and most of the weight is now well above where the OEM height was and you've moved your CG forward to the point where spring rates and strut valving/shimming need to be changed.. ( can you say jaguar XKE 63' )

My suggestion; if you like the rx7's lines, find a 944/924, even a pooched 968 and drop one in there.. at least the clearences and balances for a piston driven engine are set into the design.

On a possible retaliation front; I still don't see what the draw is of a V8? in a truck, pulling a load, is where they belong on the street. A base line ford zx2 with a 2.0L zetec will eat a mustang GT auto and the zx2 with minimal upgrades to it's breathing will beat a GT MTX.. this is a package that has pretty much the same compartment volume as the rustang. so explain again why some of you believe a V8 is 'instant torque' when a 4 banger less then 1/2 it's size and price, cleans it's clock..

Just some observations and points of view I own a supra and a zx2 as well as an FC so I'm pretty sure I known where of I speak when it comes to beating on ford modulars and LT1's with a 4 banger.. north american V8 = out dated, static design theories, best left in my chevy 1500.

Thanks and have a fun filled flame fest..

 

Here are a couple points for you.

1) The entire swap, including the car, costed $4500. That's about as much as a stock rotary convertible.

2) I now have a Turbo II hood so you can stop complaining about the hole.

3) Yes, I have 261 RWHP; did I mention my engine is STOCK. Other than being stroked to 383 it has stock heads, valvetrain, pistons, etc. You do realize that 261RWHP is over 300FWHP? Since when is that measly...it's more power than a stock FD3S.

4) I have 338.6 RWTorque. You do realize that is about 400 FWTorque? Thats more torque than a lot of cars I can name, and remember my engine is STOCK.

5) Since my engine is stock it can last 150K+ miles with no problem. Your friend with the turbo rotary will be replacing his in less than 70K probably.

6) I did not see where I was "flamin". I was merely responding someone's immature comment. Where's his warning? Oh well, you're the MOD not me.

 

woah... jeez, bunch of people neeed to lighten up

Arcknight: Yeah, I'm still around... sorry, I went to calgary and etc and couldn't get on for a few days... also, as of friday morning I won't have internet for a few days... send me a PM if you have any questions:
Here;s what I know about northstars:
they came in various sizes, 4.1,4.3, 4.6, and 4.9L... the 4.9 DOHC is the one that you want. They're aluminum block/heads, and relatively light weight for their size.

I think the 4.9 DOHC is 305HP/320TQ. Redline 6200RPM.
I don't know ALOT about them, when I thought about the v8 fiero conversion, I had a perfectly good 350 in my back yard.

I might have a car for you too.... send me a PM. The car is in Windsor, ON... maybe a 250mi trip? The guy I sold my fiero to was in cincinatti! he came and got it on a uhaul trailer...

I might be going the v8 swap with a car down the road... a 1986 GX with 80k km and a dead motor... too bad no LSD, but oh well...
My dad has a malibu that's all rusted out but has a built 350 under the hood... can you say stupid fast?

 

Damn, moderators must have missed all my bad mouthin...

Noone had a thought on this, so Ill ask again.....

Why not a Supra, 300ZX, or 240SX as a V8 donor? They are all sporty cars that handle well, and cost a lot to rebuild their engines. Im talking the above cars from 84-91.

Answer me this all wise, all knowing V8 gods!

Hell, how bout a VW Beetle? Seen a few of those w/ V8s. Come on, you know you like them.

Oh yeah, BITCH

 

Sorry, double post

 

"woah... jeez, bunch of people neeed to lighten up

Arcknight: Yeah, I'm still around... sorry, I went to calgary and etc and couldn't get on for a few days... also, as of friday morning I won't have internet for a few days... send me a PM if you have any questions:
Here;s what I know about northstars:
they came in various sizes, 4.1,4.3, 4.6, and 4.9L... the 4.9 DOHC is the one that you want. They're aluminum block/heads, and relatively light weight for their size.

I think the 4.9 DOHC is 305HP/320TQ. Redline 6200RPM.
I don't know ALOT about them, when I thought about the v8 fiero conversion, I had a perfectly good 350 in my back yard."

I dont mean to be a smartass, but you have your information mixed up. The Northstar is a 4.6 DOHC. There is no other size production Northstar. Cadillac made 4.1 4.5 and 4.9 liter pushrod V8s as well. These engines had AL blocks and iron heads. The Northstar is comes with either 300hp/295tq or 275hp/300tq. I believe that the 4.9 made 200hp/300tq.

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...apps/nstar.htm

 

Actually,

I have seen a 1987 Supra with a Chevy V8 and a guy once e-mailed me claiming he is installing a LT1 Chevy V8 in a 1990 240sx

Not to mention I have seen countless 240zx, 260zx, 280zx Chevy V8 conversions

 

Well if i'm a "all wise, all knowing V8 god" (MODS, no warning for a rotor head flaming?)
Heres the major problem with your question,
I don't already have one of those cars!
I'd LOVE any of those cars with a V8 swap, but IMO the FC looks way better, and as I already mentioned, I already own it.
VW beetle with a V8, yeah I'd love that too, give me the money and i'll buy the car and build whatever you want me to build for myself!
~matt

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BogusFile
[B]First off, learn to use the "reply w/quote button". Did you notice the smiley immediately after my "ruining an import with domestic power statement"? Yeah, that was meant as a little light humor, although I consider it gospel (see, another smiley=another little bit of humor).

I'm glad you liked my poetry, may I hear some of yours? I'm sure I'd find it less entertaining than your replies though.

Plenty of sports cars powered by the rotary were made before the RX-7? What the hell? You mean the Cosmo Sport, or did you have a couple made up cars in mind? Wouldn't matter if you were refering to the Cosmo Sport or any others, becasue none of them saw MASS PRODUCTION! But hey, I already said that didn't I?

Yes, I'm glad you agree with me about many people being ignorant about the rotary. But, did I ever say the rotary was the only logical choice for racing applications? Since when did I tell you to put words in my mouth?

You're right, there are many other cars that have achieved similar racing success like the Mazda RX-7. But your following statement was inaccurate, RX-7s still compete in any competitive events in which the rotary is not banned from (whether it be autocross, drag racing, hill climbing, rally racing, ect. ect ect.)

It's been fun arguing with you, but seriously don't start making up things to agrue with.
Isaac

P.S. At least the "crap" dribbling out of my mouth is not blatant lies, as in your case.