kep0ne

ok here we go.

previously, car started normally.

today.

started car, ran fine for a few minutes, then died.

tried to start again, car would run for a few seconds, then died. i can hear the fuel pump relay under the dash click off, and then the fuel pressure drops.

no matter what the fuel pressure just drops and the car dies.

someone help me out pls.

kep0ne

update:

car will run if i hold the key in start...which leads me to think its ignition related. someone pls help me out.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the ecu knows it in start position

mike

kep0ne

ttt someone knows...pls!

HAILERS

Sure, that's easy. Your afm's switch is not making when the car is started.

Do this. There is a two socket connector near your right hand strut tower. Its yellow in color. Not connected to a thing. Jumper the two sockets with a piece of wire. Now start the car. If it runs, let us know. Do it now. Takes but a moment.

HAILERS

The damn thing works like this.....Holding the key to the Start position, pulls a relay in, making a circuit to the fuel pump. Let go of the key from the start position and the relay stays pulled in IF the micro switch in the AFM is making when the flapper door or the cone is sucked in by the air flow to the throttle body.

The alternate way besides the afm switch, is if you jumper the yellow fuel check connector. Two prong plug. Near the right hand strut tower. Close to the boost/pressure sensor. Close by anyway.

HAILERS

There is a free, online, factory service manual at http://www.iluvmyrx7.com and two other sites. It's free. Won't cost you a cent. It has the wiring diagrams for a 88 model.

HAILERS

In this jpg you can see the Circuit Cut Relay that makes the circuit to the fuel pump. See the arrow that goes to the afm? Afm not shown on this page. Just puts a ground on the Circuit Cut Relay when the afm is pulled in....OR the fuel pump coupler plug described in the above post is jumpered.

kep0ne

if the jumper wire doenst work, what's my problem?

HAILERS

The jumper will work. All the jumper does, is put a ground on the Circuit Opening Relay to keep the relay pulled in and making a circuit to the fuel pump.

Well, another thing you might try. Take the air filter off. Reach down there and push against the flapper door. When the door is pushed, and the key is on, you should hear that relay under the dash(Circuit Opening Relay) click.

I mean, you hear it click if the key is held to start, right??? So I know that relay is good. Well most of it is good. I doubt the relay is bad.

Do the flapper door if you have constraints on using the fuel pump check connector(yellow, two socket near the strut tower.)

kep0ne

jumper doesnt work.

im thinking worn out ignition switch.

HAILERS

Not the ignition switch. If you go to the fuel pump check connector, near the right hand strut tower, two socket outfit and put a meter on volts, then the negative lead to a good ground and then put the positive lead on one socket then the other socket(I don't have wire schematic in front of me now so I don't know the colors) you should see 12v on one of the wires/sockets. Thats with the key in ON. If you see 12v, then the ignition is good.

OR, go to the Circuit OPening Relay under the dash, just above the steering colunm, and get on the BW (black/white) wire with a meter, you should see 12v on it, proving the ignition switch is good if it is in the ON position.

Or go to the Main Relay and pull the two wire plug off it and see if there is 12v on the B/W wire when the key is to ON.

It ain't the ignition switch.

HAILERS

Actually the schematic I posted was for a turbo, so here's the n/a schematic. Not any real diff b/t the two as far as pulling in the fuel pump relay.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...&postid=893365

kep0ne

ill double check the volts on the morning...IF i'm not getting 12v at ANY of those points you mentioned, THEN what?

kep0ne

the car is an 88 10AE btw.

HAILERS

86-88...same animal. AS a very last resort you'd pull the Circuit Opening RElay and put a meter on the black/white wire , and with the key to on, see if it has 12 volts. If not, ring the black/white wire back to the fuse to see if its open. But this can't be because you said you could hold the key to start and the fuel pump ran.

So if the 12v is there, then jumper a ground to the black wire and with the relay in the car, turn the key to on. The fuel pump should run.

Just troubleshoot to the schematic attached above.

HAILERS

If you go to that fuel pump check connector near the front strut tower, and see 12v on one of the wires, then you KNOW that that wire is going to the circuit opening relay. Its back feeding the 12v throught the relays coil. So if you put a ground on that wire, the relay Will pull in and feed the pump. You Will hear a click of a relay when you jumper the fuel pump check connector.

kep0ne

update: i got the car running but w/o the AFM connected...when i plugged the AFM back in, the car died.

kep0ne

hey hailers if you could touch in on this before tomrorow id appreciate it...if the AFM isnt the problem i wont have to buy one tomorrow

HAILERS

As far as I can tell....that car is honked up. At least the wiring is. The fuel pump cannot run without the afm being installed OR the fuel pump check connector jumpered. It's just not a natural thing. See the wiring diagram I attached for an explanation of what I just wrote.

I have no explanation for what you describe. I know those afm cost a bunch new/rebuilt. I've never had a bad one myself. Sorry 'bout that.

kep0ne

ill retest everything tomorrow and pull an afm from the junkyards...hopefully thats the problem. im thinking maybe a faulty circuit opening relay...

but in the on position, with the connector jumpered, i should see 12v at the blue wire at the fuel pump, right?

ok lets say that checks out...and i try and start the car but it dies...that means, the afm switch isn't making and the circuit closes. right? dead afm. right?

i think i get it now...i may have just been confused.

once again ill doublecheck everything. hopefully you've led me in the right direction.

the only thing i dont get, is that the afm pins did check ok for continuity when i tested it.

HAILERS

No. IF you have the fuel pump check connector jumpered, you should have 12v at the blue wire at the fuel pump connector, and the pump should run.

What you are doing when you do that, is bypass the little switch in the afm. Like your not counting on that switch in the afm to make the fuel pump run.

So....if you did that jumper job, and the afm was connected up , and the car started, then it seems the switch in the afm is bad. Especially if the car won't start if the jumper is NOT in the fuel pump check connector.

I'd take the air filter out, turn the key to ON, and without the jumper in the plug, move the afm's flapper door. When the door is moved, you should hear a clicking of a relay, and you should see 12v on the blue wire at the fuel pump connector. You should be able to make that 12v at the fuel pump connectors blue wire come and go as you open and shut the afm's flapper door (remember, not jumper when doing this).

Make sense? If not say so and I'll try again in a different manner.

HAILERS

Another thing you might look at. Look at the plug for the afm, and see if any of the sockets is Pushed Back. Like, are one or more loose and not making contact. Just a thought.

Somewhere in the manual it shows how to ohm out the two pins that go to the switch in the afm. I don't have the time right now. I'm busy goofing off at one thirty two in the am.

kep0ne

ill try all that in the morning. if nothing works, the car is for sale. =p

just kidding of course.

kep0ne

ok...afm checked out. i dont get 12v at the jumper. i checked voltage at the circuit opening relay, and i get close to 14v. when i turn the key to start, it drops to 9v, and then back up to 14 when the key is to on.

at 14v, the relay isn't clicking.

0 voltage at blue wire at fuel pump with jumpered connector and key to on.