front cover o-ring... or not
06-19-11, 09:41 PM
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front cover o-ring... or not
Alright, I’ll start with a little background information.
I bought my car, an 89 na with 165000 original km, my first rotary, in November from a guy who near as I could tell flipped cars. I went over the car best as I could and found lots of normal little problems like the lights didn't work, it was straight piped, welded rear end, etc, no big deal. The only real problem I could find with the car was marginally low oil pressure. I had been doing lots of reading before I bought the car and I along with all my buddies (also rx7 enthusiasts) decided that this probably wasn't the end of the world(gauge issue or something) and I bought the car for 1600 bucks. fast forward through the winter, for most of which the car sat, and now its summer and I’m driving the car and auto crossing on weekends.
on a highway drive one day, I notice that my oil pressure started dropping under load at wot(pulling in 3rd and 4th) and I decide this is a very bad thing and start doing tones of research on the forums and decide that my symptoms matched perfectly with a blown front cover o ring and I add that of my list of things to fix when I really have to. so one rainy day, I’ve got the car out and my oil pressure readings change from marginally lower than they should be (50 psi above 3k and 20 psi at idle when hot) to 30 above 3k and almost 0 at idle. this to me still pointed to a front cover o-ring, the symptoms had just gone from bad to worse, which I read could happen. I start looking at the engine: there is a build up of gunk around the edge of the timing cover, the whole bottom part of my engine, front to back, is covered in a layer of oil gunk. obviously I have an oil leak and it very well looks like it's coming from the front cover.
at this point, correct me if I’m wrong.
additional info:
when I first bought the car it had a rough idle (jumped from 1250-1500 rpm constantly) changing the oil mostly fixed this (still idles high if you don’t drag the revs down to bellow 1000, but it’s steady and will idle perfect at 850 if you drag it down there)
the engine light came on one day at autocross after I blew a coolant line spinning out. I have no way of reading it, the only computer I have is for 96 and newer obd2 vehicles, the car still ran exactly. How can I read this anyway? I actually believe it may have been on the whole time but had cold soilder joints and spinning out just made better contact because before it would flicker when you pushed on the gas
the area around what I believe is the oil metering pump(bottom left of the timing cover with 4 oil lines coming out of it) had a particularly oily build up suggesting a possible problem there
the rear line to my oil cooler from the "block" may be leaking, I noticed the area around it is particularly oily today while I was dropping the oil pan
I have not confirm my reading with a mechanical gauge because the car died before I could do so
the problem:
the o ring, Teflon washer, and timing cover seal all seem like they were not the cause of the problem. the o ring is not "bulged" or broken, neither is the Teflon washer, they were both still tightly in place when I pulled the cover. Could this still be my problem?
what else could cause these symptoms? what all should I replace while I’m in there to try and insure that I won't have to go back in there again anytime soon
I feel long winded already, but I have a note book with tones of info I observed about the car jotted down if you guys need more info.
I bought my car, an 89 na with 165000 original km, my first rotary, in November from a guy who near as I could tell flipped cars. I went over the car best as I could and found lots of normal little problems like the lights didn't work, it was straight piped, welded rear end, etc, no big deal. The only real problem I could find with the car was marginally low oil pressure. I had been doing lots of reading before I bought the car and I along with all my buddies (also rx7 enthusiasts) decided that this probably wasn't the end of the world(gauge issue or something) and I bought the car for 1600 bucks. fast forward through the winter, for most of which the car sat, and now its summer and I’m driving the car and auto crossing on weekends.
on a highway drive one day, I notice that my oil pressure started dropping under load at wot(pulling in 3rd and 4th) and I decide this is a very bad thing and start doing tones of research on the forums and decide that my symptoms matched perfectly with a blown front cover o ring and I add that of my list of things to fix when I really have to. so one rainy day, I’ve got the car out and my oil pressure readings change from marginally lower than they should be (50 psi above 3k and 20 psi at idle when hot) to 30 above 3k and almost 0 at idle. this to me still pointed to a front cover o-ring, the symptoms had just gone from bad to worse, which I read could happen. I start looking at the engine: there is a build up of gunk around the edge of the timing cover, the whole bottom part of my engine, front to back, is covered in a layer of oil gunk. obviously I have an oil leak and it very well looks like it's coming from the front cover.
at this point, correct me if I’m wrong.
additional info:
when I first bought the car it had a rough idle (jumped from 1250-1500 rpm constantly) changing the oil mostly fixed this (still idles high if you don’t drag the revs down to bellow 1000, but it’s steady and will idle perfect at 850 if you drag it down there)
the engine light came on one day at autocross after I blew a coolant line spinning out. I have no way of reading it, the only computer I have is for 96 and newer obd2 vehicles, the car still ran exactly. How can I read this anyway? I actually believe it may have been on the whole time but had cold soilder joints and spinning out just made better contact because before it would flicker when you pushed on the gas
the area around what I believe is the oil metering pump(bottom left of the timing cover with 4 oil lines coming out of it) had a particularly oily build up suggesting a possible problem there
the rear line to my oil cooler from the "block" may be leaking, I noticed the area around it is particularly oily today while I was dropping the oil pan
I have not confirm my reading with a mechanical gauge because the car died before I could do so
the problem:
the o ring, Teflon washer, and timing cover seal all seem like they were not the cause of the problem. the o ring is not "bulged" or broken, neither is the Teflon washer, they were both still tightly in place when I pulled the cover. Could this still be my problem?
what else could cause these symptoms? what all should I replace while I’m in there to try and insure that I won't have to go back in there again anytime soon
I feel long winded already, but I have a note book with tones of info I observed about the car jotted down if you guys need more info.
Last edited by ride.bicycles; 06-19-11 at 09:46 PM.
06-20-11, 10:15 AM
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You did verify pressure with a mechanical gauge, right? Or are you just going by the dash gauge. What weight of oil are you running?
The o-ring may have been an issue even though there was no obvious damage.
Sounds like you'll have fixed most of the leaks by removing the front cover, which would also fix the oil pan and metering oil leaks (assuming new gaskets). Check the metering oil lines for leakage as well.
The oil cooler lines should be replaced if leaking.
As for the code, check the 2nd gen FAQ for code pulling info. Probably TPS, judging by your idle.
The o-ring may have been an issue even though there was no obvious damage.
Sounds like you'll have fixed most of the leaks by removing the front cover, which would also fix the oil pan and metering oil leaks (assuming new gaskets). Check the metering oil lines for leakage as well.
The oil cooler lines should be replaced if leaking.
As for the code, check the 2nd gen FAQ for code pulling info. Probably TPS, judging by your idle.
06-20-11, 11:28 AM
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I'm running the recommended weight of oil in the fsm, my memory is terrible and the car is at home but I believe that's 20w50. I'm running mobile 1 synthetic, with the green badging for higher mileage vehicles(it's the only/best thing crappy tire had).
I did not verify my readings because the pressure dropped to 0 and I did not want to restart the car with no oil pressure. From what I've read on here the dash gauge is fairly accurate, but slow to respond. All of the sending unit failures I read about did not have readings matching mine, they were erratic.
My rear oil line appears to be leaking from the connector part, does that still require replacement or can I simply replace the o-rings and seals in there? Is it common for these lines to fail in this manner?
Can the oil metering pump itself fail and cause low oil pressure?
Besides replacing every gasket and o ring I find, what are the additional points I should check while I have the engine apart?
What can cause oil pressure reading like this?
I did not verify my readings because the pressure dropped to 0 and I did not want to restart the car with no oil pressure. From what I've read on here the dash gauge is fairly accurate, but slow to respond. All of the sending unit failures I read about did not have readings matching mine, they were erratic.
My rear oil line appears to be leaking from the connector part, does that still require replacement or can I simply replace the o-rings and seals in there? Is it common for these lines to fail in this manner?
Can the oil metering pump itself fail and cause low oil pressure?
Besides replacing every gasket and o ring I find, what are the additional points I should check while I have the engine apart?
What can cause oil pressure reading like this?
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