frankenstein 13b??
10-22-08, 02:52 AM
#52
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its running!!
so its finally running! just got a intake leak do to a broken bolt in da lower mani..
but the good thing it that its running..as far as power, im really pleased..
the only thing is that it has no idle i guezz do to that intake leak..
the other thing is i dont know if u guyz notice but where the oil dip stick goes it dont have that 3 to 4 inch tube that lets the dip stick sit a bit higher.. so its giving me a incorect oil reading..eny one know why that is?
i was told if it is the first gen 13b that the first gen 13b may have a shorter dip stick????
heres a pic of the missing tube..
<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/?action=view¤t=CIMG3576-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/CIMG3576-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
The way the dip stick is now it hits the bottom of the oil pan
ill also have pic/vib of the it running tommorrow
but the good thing it that its running..as far as power, im really pleased..
the only thing is that it has no idle i guezz do to that intake leak..
the other thing is i dont know if u guyz notice but where the oil dip stick goes it dont have that 3 to 4 inch tube that lets the dip stick sit a bit higher.. so its giving me a incorect oil reading..eny one know why that is?
i was told if it is the first gen 13b that the first gen 13b may have a shorter dip stick????
heres a pic of the missing tube..
<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/?action=view¤t=CIMG3576-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/CIMG3576-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
The way the dip stick is now it hits the bottom of the oil pan
ill also have pic/vib of the it running tommorrow
10-22-08, 09:33 AM
#53
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As it turns out, I found an old article that covers almost all of Mazdas rotary engines. Based on this, I think your engine is from a Luce. It's the only FWD rotary car Mazda made.
10-22-08, 10:34 AM
#54
The Luce didn't come with a n/a s4 series 13b (86-88 style or 84-85 6 port for that matter). It was only offered with piston engines and the 13bt (s4) from 86 on. All other 13b offerings were 1972 to 1980 (older style 13b's) and the early Luce's had 13a engines (the only production car to have a 13a engine). The later Luce's were exported to the US known as the 929 (piston only).
Since it was built by someone (obvious due to the missing exhaust sleeves, and all the excess silicone every were) who knows what parts this thing was built from. But I suppose its possible at least the middle plate came from a Luce?
~Mike...............
Since it was built by someone (obvious due to the missing exhaust sleeves, and all the excess silicone every were) who knows what parts this thing was built from. But I suppose its possible at least the middle plate came from a Luce?
~Mike...............
10-22-08, 10:44 AM
#55
My take on that engine: (didn't read all replies so sorry in advance if someone said these already)
S5 front cover/MOP
S4 N/A front plate
Carb'd 13B (pre 84) front housing
13B RE center iron
S4 rear housing (or possibly GSL SE)
S4 N/A rear plate
Obviously no idea on the rotors. But that pig is certainly a frankenstien, I've never seen anyone mix those two particular housings together - especially when I consider the amount of chrome flaking I've typically found on those old style 13B's. If its got compression and you have no money........drive it. Its only an N/A so its not going to be as stressed as a boosted engine - only thing I'd like to see is exhaust sleeve, but that won't happen unless you tear it down.
S5 front cover/MOP
S4 N/A front plate
Carb'd 13B (pre 84) front housing
13B RE center iron
S4 rear housing (or possibly GSL SE)
S4 N/A rear plate
Obviously no idea on the rotors. But that pig is certainly a frankenstien, I've never seen anyone mix those two particular housings together - especially when I consider the amount of chrome flaking I've typically found on those old style 13B's. If its got compression and you have no money........drive it. Its only an N/A so its not going to be as stressed as a boosted engine - only thing I'd like to see is exhaust sleeve, but that won't happen unless you tear it down.
10-22-08, 04:16 PM
#56
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well its compression kicked up from 60 to 110 so as far as all the seals there all good..and dont smoke even with stait pipe no cat...
oh and i found the other reason for that intake leak here the pic..
<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/?action=view¤t=Picture011.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/Picture011.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/?action=view¤t=Picture012.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c228/EvilAle9/rx7/Picture012.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
this is the way i found it when i pulled it out...(thanx to my great mechanic)
10-26-13, 08:54 PM
#57
BUMP!!! I bought an '88 vert recently & am tearing it down to make a T2. Car had this same style center iron, w/ the boss on the exhaust side w/ 4 tapped holes for mounting... I'm guessing Luce 6 port??? How would something that odd made it to the states I wonder?
10-26-13, 09:34 PM
#58
talking head
correct.. this is how they mount in HB cosmo
( 82-86 929 sedan and coupe ...... 6p 12a/12aT / 13b RESI .... 12at versions still sold in 88... known as LUCE and COSMO in japan and avail in australia )
..RESI 6p engine ,, most similar to your GSL-SE engine
they have a boss on either side of the middle plate and the exhaust is notched to fit around it
IIRC i think the middle plate is K or M .. and the port size is tiny ... finger nail tiny ..
( in the OPs original pic )
you can see one rx4/5 housing and one GSL-SE one
( with oil injector, closer to inlet than the s4 rx7 )
..IE.. water seal grooves compatible housings and plate combo
( 82-86 929 sedan and coupe ...... 6p 12a/12aT / 13b RESI .... 12at versions still sold in 88... known as LUCE and COSMO in japan and avail in australia )
..RESI 6p engine ,, most similar to your GSL-SE engine
they have a boss on either side of the middle plate and the exhaust is notched to fit around it
IIRC i think the middle plate is K or M .. and the port size is tiny ... finger nail tiny ..
( in the OPs original pic )
you can see one rx4/5 housing and one GSL-SE one
( with oil injector, closer to inlet than the s4 rx7 )
..IE.. water seal grooves compatible housings and plate combo
Last edited by bumpstart; 10-26-13 at 09:41 PM. Reason: expanded what a HB cosmo/ Luce is
10-27-13, 06:04 AM
#60
Bumpstart thanks!!! I'm sure this thing's pretty common place over where you are. Not so much in the states haha. Not sure what I'll do with it.
EDIT: I need to find a 929, now I know what I'll do with it
10-27-13, 02:23 PM
#61
every engine before 1986 and after 2003 had the coolant seals in the rotor housings, within that range they were in the irons.
the franken-motor in the original title thread has a GSL-SE rotor housing and a late model 2nd gen rotor housing, meaning it has a mismatched pair of coolant seals somewhere in that engine. took me about half a second to notice that. the other pictures seem to be broken.
my guess is they are in the rotor housings and the iron is completely flat, unless the Luce did a timewarp in engine design up to 1986(the USDM ones did not).
the franken-motor in the original title thread has a GSL-SE rotor housing and a late model 2nd gen rotor housing, meaning it has a mismatched pair of coolant seals somewhere in that engine. took me about half a second to notice that. the other pictures seem to be broken.
my guess is they are in the rotor housings and the iron is completely flat, unless the Luce did a timewarp in engine design up to 1986(the USDM ones did not).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-27-13 at 02:28 PM.
10-27-13, 07:27 PM
#62
talking head
/\ the original pic shows one housing with an oil squirt
( a GSL-SE housing .. note the squirt location is different to s4/5/6, slightly closer to the inlet,, note also the housing lacks the through bolt bumps visible on s4 and s5 /6 housings )
and the other housing has no provision for oil squirt.. ie ,, rx4 /5
both housings have grooves.. AKA like all 12a and early ( pre 86 ) 13b ( and rx8 )
( a GSL-SE housing .. note the squirt location is different to s4/5/6, slightly closer to the inlet,, note also the housing lacks the through bolt bumps visible on s4 and s5 /6 housings )
and the other housing has no provision for oil squirt.. ie ,, rx4 /5
both housings have grooves.. AKA like all 12a and early ( pre 86 ) 13b ( and rx8 )
10-28-13, 12:43 AM
#63
hmm never read the last few posts on this thread, so the one I have with the mounts on the side of the center iron is probably a fwd luce engine? ive still got the engine sitting around somewhere, probably be interesting to tear it down one of these days to find out for sure...
the engine had a bad coolent seal, but high compression but never really felt like it had as much "umph" as the other 6 port engines I had ran in it. wonder if it was due to the port sizing?
the engine had a bad coolent seal, but high compression but never really felt like it had as much "umph" as the other 6 port engines I had ran in it. wonder if it was due to the port sizing?
10-28-13, 02:14 AM
#64
talking head
NO....
a 13a is TOTALLY different dimensions in eccentricity.. its for a FWD car form 1968......also,, called luce .. R130
ie ...the plates are taller and rounder and the housings are 10a skinny to keep the dimensions to 1300 cc
so the 13a has ZERO compatibility with the 10a/12a/13b series beyond a 10a apex seal
the engine in the thread is for a rwd 929/cosmo/luce from 82-86,, take it from someone who has dealt with many over them for the last 20 yrs
capiche ?
theses cars came with 12a 6p.. 12at ,, or 13b RESI
all of these engines have a middle plate featuring the mount boss on both sides
these engines in this thread are 13b RESI
it uses the GSL-SE ( N304 ) masses but can use the rx4 rear one ( 1029A )
[ cant use the 1029A mass up front as the edge of it whacks the bulge for the 6 p runner casting under the timing cover ,, the N304 mass has a chamfer at edge to clear this like later masses ]
the RESI has the same 9.4:1 3mm rotor as the GSL-SE ,, they are the same mass as the 9.2:1 rx4 rotors
.. and use the tall " hi volume.. competition " rotor in the 12a style oil pump
RESI housings have rx4 13b type water O ring groove locations and an oil squirt ,, uses a s4 type squirt,, but it is fractionally closer to the inlet manifold
IE..
the s4 and s5 location grinds the corner of the small casting lump just above it to fit
.. RESI ( and 12aT ) dont
[ indecently the 12at feature a different squirt with the air line separate and so have another hole tapped into the top edge of that casting lump ]
i cant comment on what middle plate is in your GSL-SE engines to see if they are K or M type like those intended for our 82-86 cosmo/luce
( one of these plates is for the carbed 12a 6 p .. so lacks injector bosses ,, the other is intended for fuel injection and so is used with 12at and RESI motors , off top of my head , cant recall which is which , both have TINY primary inlet ports , the best you can manage is to get them ALMOST to NO plate port spec )
if it is,,then your GSL-SE engine is identical to our RESI engine
..but just mounted from the timing cover in the rx7 ...
a 13a is TOTALLY different dimensions in eccentricity.. its for a FWD car form 1968......also,, called luce .. R130
ie ...the plates are taller and rounder and the housings are 10a skinny to keep the dimensions to 1300 cc
so the 13a has ZERO compatibility with the 10a/12a/13b series beyond a 10a apex seal
the engine in the thread is for a rwd 929/cosmo/luce from 82-86,, take it from someone who has dealt with many over them for the last 20 yrs
capiche ?
theses cars came with 12a 6p.. 12at ,, or 13b RESI
all of these engines have a middle plate featuring the mount boss on both sides
these engines in this thread are 13b RESI
it uses the GSL-SE ( N304 ) masses but can use the rx4 rear one ( 1029A )
[ cant use the 1029A mass up front as the edge of it whacks the bulge for the 6 p runner casting under the timing cover ,, the N304 mass has a chamfer at edge to clear this like later masses ]
the RESI has the same 9.4:1 3mm rotor as the GSL-SE ,, they are the same mass as the 9.2:1 rx4 rotors
.. and use the tall " hi volume.. competition " rotor in the 12a style oil pump
RESI housings have rx4 13b type water O ring groove locations and an oil squirt ,, uses a s4 type squirt,, but it is fractionally closer to the inlet manifold
IE..
the s4 and s5 location grinds the corner of the small casting lump just above it to fit
.. RESI ( and 12aT ) dont
[ indecently the 12at feature a different squirt with the air line separate and so have another hole tapped into the top edge of that casting lump ]
i cant comment on what middle plate is in your GSL-SE engines to see if they are K or M type like those intended for our 82-86 cosmo/luce
( one of these plates is for the carbed 12a 6 p .. so lacks injector bosses ,, the other is intended for fuel injection and so is used with 12at and RESI motors , off top of my head , cant recall which is which , both have TINY primary inlet ports , the best you can manage is to get them ALMOST to NO plate port spec )
if it is,,then your GSL-SE engine is identical to our RESI engine
..but just mounted from the timing cover in the rx7 ...
10-28-13, 09:57 AM
#65
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and this is exactly what this engine is, its a GSL-SE/RESI block with a rotor housing from a 70's 13B, and S5 front cover.
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LongDuck
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10-07-15 08:12 PM
13b, 13bre, 13bt, 84, bridgeport, frankenstein, frankenstien, frankentein, front, gslse, irons, make, motor, quotes, rotary
