honegod

1987RX7guy adapted a Fd alternator into his, I presume, 87.

but it does not start charging until he revvs the engine up.

there seems to be a vast difference of opinion as to what is going on here.

A} "they ALL do that" implying that this is a designed behaviour on the part of mazda.

this IS possible, but I have yet to read anything that actually specifies this RPM requirement, and it IS contrary to standard industry practice.

B} "something's wrong" implying that there is something, um, wrong in the charging system.

so, just think, if it is a common problem, and if it IS a malfunction in the charging circuit, wouldn't it be SWELL to figure out where the problem is ?

personally, I suspect a problem in the excitor circuit, the alternator failure light wiring.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

What are you showing here?

If there was a major problem with the FD alternator conversion, why would no-one come forward complaining of a problem except for Santiago? Tony has sold a large number of units, even I have bought one. I have no complaints.

J-Rat brought up an interesting point about the alternator perhaps putting a drain on the battery under some circumstances, which, yes, I would like to know more about. Unfortunately I haven't had much time as of late to help dig up information about it.

But regardless, these are two different topics.

Seems like everyone has been successful, except Santiago, even though his alternator tested fine, and later on in the thread he mentioned that his alternator will begin charging after it sits at idle without rev for 'x' number of minutes.

I can't understand this "major problem" being so, when no one else has come forward with the same issue.

Another seperate issue I had some concern about, was at idle, my voltage was lower than expected. Fortunately with a DMM, the results came out as 14.0 volts. My stock gauge is wrong. As soon as I am at 2k RPM, my voltage is 14.5 solid. Perhaps this is tied in with the matter that Santiago's alternator doesn't 'kick in' until 2k RPM.

Which is why in the older threads I brought up the idea of a smaller pulley, considering the serpentine belt system (and stock pulley) spins the alternator faster at idle on an FD as opposed to a v-belt pulley on an FC.

honegod

heh, a fair chunk of showing off my newfound ability to make animated GIFs

also, actually, demonstrating exactly where a open circuit in the dashboard could cause the alternator to fail to gen until revved up.

Quote:

If there was a major problem with the FD alternator conversion, why would no-one come forward complaining of a problem except for Santiago? Tony has sold a large number of units, even I have bought one. I have no complaints.

this is what caught my attention, the apparent contradiction of there being no such common problem, yet the massive objection to his trying to find out what is going on.

there were at least a couple of folks who reported similar difficulties with no hint on the cause.

Quote:

J-Rat brought up an interesting point about the alternator perhaps putting a drain on the battery under some circumstances, which, yes, I would like to know more about. Unfortunately I haven't had much time as of late to help dig up information about it.

But regardless, these are two different topics.

yes, they are, most likely

Quote:

Seems like everyone has been successful, except Santiago, even though his alternator tested fine, and later on in the thread he mentioned that his alternator will begin charging after it sits at idle without rev for 'x' number of minutes.

um, he said it did it ONCE, which says to me that it WANTS to work right, but cannot because of X.

Quote:

I can't understand this "major problem" being so, when no one else has come forward with the same issue.

it could be that it IS a not wildly uncommon problem but so far everybody shares this attitude

"Get used to it. It's fine.

Your making a mountain out of a molehill, "

the point is we don't KNOW, and that itches.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Isnt the Excitor circit integral to the alternator? I mean, it IS a self regulating unit.

The only thing is the interlock, a 2 pin connector. That signal appears to come from the ECU, via a 2 pin connector. This signal seems to be controlled by a vac operated switch. Hmm..... Possible weak vac switch? ECU incompatibilities due to a weak/failing ECU? Gremlins?

I think that the fault does not lie in the Alternator itself...

Jarrett

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

What you are exemplifying Is a theory. Your choice of words such as "presume", "Imply" and "yet to read anything that actually specifies this RPM requirement" constitutes the makeshaft for a continuation of just that - theory. Let me ask you hone, do you have a FD Alternator so your theory could be more better supported and worthy of starting another thread that Is adding fuel to the fire? The fact Is, that I declared for anyone else, rather than Santiago, to comeforth to let us know If they are exhibiting the same problems. I have not experienced any problems as Santiago hasand I'd like to know If anyone else Is. But I'd like to know If you have with your FD Alternator?

honegod

it is TOTALLY likely that I improperly used the word "excitor" in my ignorance.

there MUST be something that boots the alternator into action, that brings the magnetic fields to life. it is that thing that I believe is the source of this problem.

what I have seen in the wireing diagrams I have read is that the 'excitor' is wired to recieve juice from the outside of the alternator, as opposed to the "one wire" alternators which get the needed current internally from the battery wire.

Quote:

The only thing is the interlock, a 2 pin connector. That signal appears to come from the ECU, via a 2 pin connector. This signal seems to be controlled by a vac operated switch. Hmm..... Possible weak vac switch? ECU incompatibilities due to a weak/failing ECU? Gremlins?

THIS I have not seen ! which wiring diagram are YOU looking at ???

Quote:

I think that the fault does not lie in the Alternator itself...

I share that feeling, it seems to be an intermittent open sort of thing somewhere in the car wiring, with a hint of a possible minor difference in current requirements in the FD excitor that the weak chassis wiring is not allowing through to the alternator.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I am using the wiring diagram for the 86-88 turbo/non turbo in the FSM.

Jarrett

honegod

this is the second time I have heard of the "FSM", what IS it ??????

Wankel7

Factory Service Manual

James

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

honegod - First of all thankyou for being the only light at the end of the tunnel. You alone beleived in me and trusted that I wasn't just being a tard. Further down I will reveal the end of this matter and the solution proposed. Don't give up on your theory as it may be the source of other problems that FC owners are dealing with.




Black13B - You have been very troublesome throughout this ordeal and I really don't know what to say to you but don't ever post in my threads again. Your advice or content is not welcome.




J-Rat - Did you ever swap your FD alternator to your TII?


silverrotor - I still think your a great man bro. You are still handeling this nicely but I didn't however appreciate all the negative comments in the other thread that was locked. I specifically told you in a PM that I would ask for a lock but you refused. Then you went on to post all those remarks when it was not really even my fault I just wanted my problem resolved and when all others gave up I just kept trying to find an answer. That is all man. No harm intended or intentionally made.




Well finally...fark it I will just copy and paste the PM I sent to Tony that way I don't fug it up.

Here it is:
Santiago

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Nope, still didnt put it in...Too busy chasing bigger problems.. Maybe next weekend.

Sorry!

Jarrett

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Not a problem Jarret. I just was insterested if maybe your alternator's diods are also bad.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Diodes are bad? Are you freebasing again?... Do you even know what they dO?

The diagnostic test that you had on your alternator would have indicated if the diode pak was bad or not.

Jarrett

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Please read the self quote from the PM. I am not saying anything but what the guy at autozone told me is wrong and what me and wankel7 saw happen 4 times in a row.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Muy interesante..... I wasnt aware that the diodes were bad. Well, guess this becomes a PM issue eh? Out of sheer curiousity, I will have mine checked tomorrow.

Jarrett

ERAUMAZDA

Even if the battery is not charging at idle, how long are u going to idle the car. Its just common sense that the alternator is going to produce more charging power at a higher RPM.

I don't see how changing the alternator to FD alternator would effect the charging of the battery, Its pointless to drive you car on idle all day.

So what seems to be the problem?

An alternator is a generator...its not complex. If you turn the shaft it would produce charging for the battery.

First thing you need to do is test the alternator. Thats it not complex...next the battery. I told u this in the previous post DAYS AGO!

I think the problem does not exist in the alternator....but the installer.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Ok you failed to read anything of what I posted. Go back and then see what you come up with.


And I beleive that there is ONE difference in generators and alternators.

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

Santiago, not cool how you post PM's. Just thought I would say that...

So, you have this blip problem, you have It checked out. You than varify that the FD Alternator Is good, yet still experience your existing problems. Than you suggest the Alternator Is In actuality good shape, according to auto zone. Your convinced that It may have been due to perhaps ambient weather or the like than confirm that you do Infact have a bad Alternator as a result of poor diodes, after again, going to Autozone.

That Is how I understand It. I guess my step by step precaution was no match for 1987rx7guy than? So be It. It's an up and down scenario that will be cut short by simply returning the damn thing so I can confirm It myself. I really want It sent to me asap to see what has happened It to It.

Your suggestion to have you or/and your site sell my FD Alternators, that you suggested via PM's, could be forgotten too. It was never going to happen anyway dude. Thought I'd toss that In their aswell.

In any respect, I'll PM you my address to get It sent out.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I don't see how it is un-cool. It is what I happened and I have a witness. I know you PM'ed James. Did his account differ any from mine?

I told you I DO NOT know about electronics at all so I had to trust in the employees at autozone. The first gentelman told me it was good. The second said and showed us that it was indeed not good. He said something along the lines of it charging low but indeed charging and that the diodes were not good. Therefore i took his word again as he was an older man than the first and probably has more experience under his belt. As I said in the PM just send me your addy and it will be shipped ASAP.

And my offer was out of friendship. I still very much consider you a friend but I don't see why you have to be harsh about things like this. I already told you that I have nothing to gain and only losses will come to both of use because of this. I stand to make no profit from you repairing my alternator. You know that.

Santiago

Wankel7

Wow, just wow.

Okie, the alt does not charge at idle. Period. No charge. It is actually in a state of discharge. That is not right. Not sure why it is not right. Alt or the car. Who knows right now.

ERAUMAZDA, that is not a problem you settle with. You fly don't you? You do not just settle for problems like that. How offten are you going to be at idle? Right. States of discharge are not good for your battery.

If the alt is bad then it is. It happens. Silver should talk with the supplier. Just because everybody else has a working one doesn't mean anything what so ever. This stuff happens. Fluke.

If the car is the problem then that will be found if Silver gets the alt and it tests perfectly.

I was there I saw this. I tested the volts my self. Discharge at idle 12.3V. Rev it....14V perfect.

I was there and saw it test bad on a bench. Who cares if it tests ok in the car! We need to stop talking about that. The bench test said bad. That would over rule the in car test. Silver, you need to recognize the fact the bench test happend. And maybe, just maybe the unit might be bad.

Santiago isn't trying to screw you over. Defame you. Hurt your business. He just wants his car running straight like we all do.

Silver, you offer a good product and good support. Thanks.

And for once I wish somebody that knew about charging systems would speak up and educate us on wtf is up.

James

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

I'd hate to reitterate myself, It's pointless. Well... I acknowledge a few things. For one, I babysat this FD Alternator every step of the way, as I mentioned In the other thread. I witnessed a miraculous 13.7-13.9V @ Idle on the same machine you speak of. I also recognize a problem exists with the FD Alternator and the Incompatibility of Santiago's car. Alright. If the diodes (I'm not even sure what that function Is myself) were good from the time I sent It and than somewhere along the line they went bad...It's an evident case of he said she said. No problem. Where the transitional poop occured, I don't know. My guys will assess It and all will assure that all Is well for the FD Alternator.

Above all that was stated, I'm amazed that close to 100 FD Alternator owners, specific to the FC, never experienced the same problems as Santiago.

Each case Is unique I guess.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

WTF is up, is that there is WAAAAAAY too much dirty laundry being aired out here. Seems somewhat normal ops for any thread involving 87RX7GUY, and guest starring ERAUMAZDA, to degenerate into a flame war.

Why cant you guys just keep this in the PMs?

Now it seems that I am the ONLY other person that has seen this problem on his car. Therefore in the interest of peace and harmony amongst rotary brothers and sisters, I will take my alternator in tomorrow and have it checked. If it checks bad for diodes, then maybe we have a winner. Either way, if Santiago wants to return his alternator to Tony, fine. But this has gone on through what...3 threads now? This constant bickering? Christ! Lets get through this and move on!

Jarrett



Jarrett

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Diodes provide isolation from the battery to the alternator. Prevents the battery from feeding back into the alternator.

Jarrett

honegod

that it doesn't work right, and we don't (didn't) know why, so it might break totally at any time if whatever is wrong gets worse.

Quote:

An alternator is a generator...its not complex. If you turn the shaft it would produce charging for the battery.

this turns out to not be the case.
a generator uses magnets to generate the magnetic field, an alternator uses electromagnets.

until you run some current INTO the wires of the alternator to CREATE the magnetic fields all you are doing is spinning some wires around.

Quote:

I think the problem does not exist in the alternator....but the installer.

the problem IS in the head of the installer, until he figures it OUT, eh ?

honegod

does your alternator bulb light up when it is supposed to, before and during cranking ?

is it on when the initial running-but-not-charging 'thing' is happening ?