JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I'm having trouble with my FD alt swap. I'm using the Banzai-toyota dual belt pulley and am consistently getting belt squeeling. That and the volt gauge will vary between 12v and 14v at different times both with lots of accessories on and with them off. Sometimes I will get near 14 with lights, stereo, etc on. Sometimes I'll be just above 12v during the day, no lights or stereo on.

I've got matched OEM size belts on their now, but I had some trouble getting them on. With the alt bolted to the engine I couldn't get the belts over the rim of the pulley. I couldn't go with larger belts because my TMIC is just about sitting on the alternator. I ended up putting the belts on, then putting the bolt through the alt, then adjusting the belt tension. I'd have enough play on the adjustment to tighten, but the alt is near the top of the adjuster.

I've read about some people using two different sized belts and am about to try that. I bought one belt each one and two sizes smaller. I've read about the pros and cons of the yoohoo belt. Does anyone have advice or suggestions?

BurntOrangeT2

iTrader: (30)

well the yohoo belt will give your alternator more voltage if you go with a smaller or stock pulley and you will still have the benefits of a dual drive belt setup since its mostly to keep the water pump from creating air pockets from moving the coolant to fast i'd try that you will get better voltage out of a smaller pulley.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

What?

Edit:
Sorry, my head nearly exploded there.
Both the dual belt alt pulley or the yoohoo belt are meant to keep the waterpump from slipping, NOT "speeding up".

@JustJeff...
The squealing belts could be a sign of the pullies being misaligned.

IanS

iTrader: (4)

Dumb question, but did you buy the correct pulley? The pullies are different for S1-4 and S5-7

Silverfc88

iTrader: (7)

Whats belts are you using?


I know when I put in some belts from Napa they squealed like a bitch. I replaced them with a pair from Advanced Auto and the squeal went away.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I didn't know there was a difference between S4 and S5 pulleys. The one I bought was off of ebay (banzaitoyota), specific for swapping an FD alternator onto an FC. I don't remember it specifying S4 or S5, just FC. I don't see them still on ebay, but it is the one with the rotor on the end....got a decent amount of talk on these forums.

I've done some searching and haven't found anyone talking about a difference between S4 and S5.

Don't remember which brand I got. I'll check tomorrow.

ramello

iTrader: (1)

that shouldnt make a difference...if it specifies that it is for an FD alt than its the right pulley....that would only make a difference if you happened to have an s4 alternator that you were trying to use, but seeing how you have an s5 engine and your using an fd alt you should be in buisness.

I would try a different brand of belts or check the tension

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I've thought of them being misaligned, by eyeballing them they look lined up correctly. Is there a way to measure?

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I've got Goodyear Gatorbacks on their now. Tension seems right. I decided not to try smaller belts than OEM because both belts seem tensioned correctly. I'm gonna order a different brand of matched belts and see how that does.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Well I've been out ordering belts. Or trying to. I go in O'Reily's to return the two smaller belts I had bought and order a matched pair. The guy looks in the computer and says "we've got two of that size in stock" I explain to him that I want a matching pair and that he'd need to special order them. He looks very confused at me, telling me they are the same size. I explain to him that a matched pair are made at the same time at the factory. He tells me that he can't guarantee that the two he orders will be made at the same time, that he can't order a matched pair.

So, I go down the road to where I originally ordered the matched pair of Gatorbacks (Autozone) to order something other than Gatorbacks. I have almost the identical conversation with that parts person.

Which of course has me thinking that the Gatorbacks I ordered from the same store are supposedly matched pair.

I wouldn't have thought getting a matched pair ordered would be this difficult? Where and how did everyone get their matched pairs of belts.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Jeff-


Is the squealing still the problem or is it the voltage variation that is bugging you?

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Hey jack, it's the squeeling. Voltage has for the most part stabilized, though with all my electronics I'd love to follow your Taurus alt guide. If only I had a FMIC instead of TMIC. Cause I just won't be able to squeeze the Ford alt in. One thing I'm considering is taking my spare P/S and A/C bracket and finding a weld person to modify it so that I can remove my P/S, mod the bracket for a Taurus alt relocated there.

The belt slipping seems to be digressing and seems to happen more often if I have the heater blowing. Probably cause there is more strain on the belts in general. While out running some errands I'm going to stop by the rest of the parts stores in my area, Pepboys, Advanced, and Napa to see if anyone can assure me a matched set can be ordered. If I have too much more trouble I'll probalby end up getting a yoohoo belt from Pineapple. I just don't like the idea of having no tension adjustment on there.

I'm glad you responded, I keep wanting to toss you a reply to your email bout vert tops. With this reminder fresh in mind I'll get on that now.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I let my fingers do the walking and Napa can have a matched pair in their store tomorrow.

But I'm gonna hop over to Jack's thread about Taurus alts. The more I think about it the more I'd like to find a way to get one of those on my engine.

MRX_Rotary

Your squealing and voltage problems are likely related. If the belt is slipping on the pulley, then the alternator isn't spinning as fast and can't generate its rated current and voltage. Misalignment shouldn't be a problem, I think. If the pulleys look aligned, then I don't think it would be a problem.

Belts can only squeal when they are slipping on the pulley (or some other way of a belt rubbing across metal). From your OP, I'd guess that there is not enough tension on the belts. Otherwise, try checking the pulley to see if there's any grease/oil/etc. on it that would cause a belt to slip that may have accidentally gotten on the pulley during installation or anything like that and clean it off if if there is. If the pulley is clean then check the belts and/or try new belts. (Get smaller belts if there is not enough tension and you can get them on.)

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Gonna try a matched set of what Napa ordered for me Gates, I think. I've got a suspicion that the Gatorback belts are not in fact a matched pair....seeing how I stopped in the same store to order a different brand of matched and the guy told me he can't guarantee they'd be matched. The Napa ones are OEM size, and if I have problems with that I was planning on going one size smaller....or yoohoo belt. Time will tell

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Their is no diiference between S4-S5. The difference between S5 to S7 is shaft size. One is 13mm and the other is 15mm
Thanks Robert

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I am just going to throw some thoughts out here, free association on the problem.

I can tell you that the interior HVAC fan pull lots of amps, adding significantly to the alt load. I think it is a 30 amp circuit breaker? If I remember it pulls like 20 amps on high speed.

Thinking about how the belt are set up, which pulley is squealing? Is it the main crank pulley or the alt pulley?

And how are you tightening the belts? Is it possible that you have just not gotten them tight? Also, could your alternator have a bad bearing that adds to the drag? If you take the belts off and spin the alternator by hand, does it spin freely or does it grind?

I'm just thinking, my alternator has one belt on the pulley and it doesn't slip/squeal or anything else.

Have you tried just using one belt? You know the second belt is intended to help with the waterpump, it is really not needed for the alternator.

Waterpump bearings will also squeal if they are failing. Could your waterpump bearing be squealing?

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

It's the alt pulley that's squeeling. I've been giving thought to the alt possibly going bad, that's why I've been kicking around the Taurus alt mod. Considering options if I need to replace the alt.

Actually before I went with a dual alt pulley or even an FD alt, when I was even less experienced with my car....I had a single belt with airpump removed. As I was getting on the highway I snapped the alt belt. Heard the noise of something going and was keeping an eye on the idiot cluster and factory gauges as I saw bits and pieces in the rear view. Was trying to decide if I had run over something or lost something off my car. Looked back and saw the idiot cluster lit up like a Xmas tree. I got the car stopped before I did damage to the engine, but blew the top off the OEM radiator. The rest of the death of a radiator drama was that it was record breaking heat of summer and I left my cell phone at home...hehe oh yeah...and I was wearing a black shirt too boot!!! On the plus side I ended up putting a Koyo in as a replacement. But, I'm a bit paranoid and I figure while I'm changing 1 belt might as well do both.

I don't think it's the water pump, but have no experience with one going bad on me. When I first put the FD alt on I wasn't using a lock washer on the adjuster bolt and it was backing off and allowing slack on the belts. I'd tighten the alt back up and be good. I've got a lock washer on there now.

One thing another poster might be part of the problem. I had the UIM off to check mess with vacuum lines. I had the coolant hose off the BAC. The engine was cold, but I still lost some fluid out of the line while trying to pin the hose upwards against the throttle cable. Some coolant could have gotten on the alt belts.

I've got the Napa belts on and use a C clamp to pull the alt up by putting one end of the clamp ontop of the adjuster slider and the other under a washer on the adjuster bolt. I use a socket wrench and open ended wrench to tighten the adjust bolt. Tighten the bolt on the front cover, then remove the C clamp. I've let the car idle in the garage with no squeel. We'll see what time tells and a good drive tells....

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

The alternator belt should just not be this complicated. Something is wrong and I don't think it is the belt.

Basically you have 4 possibilities.

1. Belts are loose.
   
2. Alternator defective.
   
3. Water pump defective.
   
4. Belt is contaminated (oil)

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I agree there...

I've got the belts as tight as the adjuster slide thing will allow. Possible option, if using a diff brand of belts doesn't work is go 1 size smaller.

I've got suspicions about the alternator. It spins without any scuffing noises or anything....but not as freely as my FC alt spins. Before I put it on it tested fine at Autozone, but I hear those tests aren't all the definitive. If I keep having problems I'm considering options ranging from the deal Gotham has for $150 and get back a rebuilt FD alt that's polished. Swapping out for an Autozone reman...but I hear those aren't so trustworthy. A beefed up FD alt is an option. What I"d prefer to do is something similar to your Taurus mod, cause I've got alot of electronics and more to come in the form of gauges and some form of electronic managment...and would like to add a Taurus efan too boot.

I'll start researching on symptoms of water pumps going bad. For what it's worth my S5 OEM temp gauge reads consistently just below midway on the gauge. I'm trying to decide on what brand of gauges to go with. But a water temp gauge is on the top of my list once that's been decided. I'm leaning towards Prosports or STRI for matching amber lighting.

I didn't see anything on the Gatorbelts or the pulley....though I didn't even think to check the other two pulleys. DAMN!! About the Gatorbacks, an in-town buddy isn't a big fan of Gatorbacks cause he says they tend to slip. This is my first experience with them.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Gatorbacks solved the squealing problem I was having with Gates belts.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

On day two of driving on the new belts and no news is good news. Voltage seems to be consistent. Still lower than I'd like, but I also have alot of draw on the system.

mike_merryguy

iTrader: (8)

Well as far as 'matched belts' those don't exist, you just have to get two belts as close as possible, and tighten the hell out of it to get the one that is slightly smaller to stretch out.. which will cause some squeaking b/c the one belt is so tight, a little bar soap, same **** you shower with, and it will quiet that down, hopefully your bearing is not bad in the alt, although i think just an alt bearing is a few bucks and pretty easy to replace.

I have an FD alt in my S4 and its a bear to get the belts on, I think I may have notched mine a bit getting it on but been going strong for 6 months with no belt problems. Although the power is still rather low, personally (no proof no expertise) I think that an FD alt is spinning to slow on an FC at idle.. I still have low power at idle and with radio on lights on when I brake the headlights dim, now its not nearly as bad as with the s4 60 amp crap it still dims, I would love to stay at 14.4 with full load, I am upgrading to an optima high current battery, maybe that will help, if that doesn't work I am going to get a 160 amp alt and get that sucker in there, only problem for me will be a pully b/c I am soon to upgrade to supercharger with serpentine belt and I will have to source a pully from god knows where

sorry to ramble good luck with the belts

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

An update on stuff.....

It's a little over a month after new belts and they've started squeeling again. I can feel more slack in them, but the alternator adjuster slide bolt is locked down nice and tight.

I believe Jackhild hit the nail on the head with the possible water pump being defective. I've been loosing small amounts of coolant over time. About once every...um...2-3 weeks my coolant level sensor goes off. This started about the same time I started having issues with the belts.

I've never dealt with a water pump going bad, but it seems like that coolant could be lost out of the weep hole. It's certainly not a coolant seal leaking as i'm not loosing LOTS of fluid and my exhaust is neither white or sweet smelling.

I started a seperate thread about using an old water pump of mine. If anyone has any advice it'd be appreciated.

Here's the link

mazdaracer78

my head almost exploded because... someone earlier in the post was trying to relate a yohoo belt to voltage...

sorry to post on something so stale. my comp must have froze...