Rabit87

can a rx-8 six speed tranny fit on my s5?
IF it does would it just be a wast of time or would it benifit my S5

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

check out the search function. this is covered all the time...seriously...

need RX7

iTrader: (4)

It can be done, but it's not just a bolt-up. From what I remember, it requires quite a bit of work and probably isn't worth it in the end. Try a search, there have been a few threads on it in the past.

blackedoutFC3S

iTrader: (7)

Yes it can, is it worth it No. Trust me, everyones wondered it.

HeyITZthatFC

Not worth it, you get less MPG in 6th gear then 5th gear, and it's just like having an .. extra gear between second and third i believe that's what someone said.

TitaniumTT

^ YOU ARE AN INTERNET PARROT.

So all the other gear ratios are identical except for the one between 2 & 3.

This has been covered so many times it's disturbing.

Over the course of the next week or so I am going to do a write-up that WILL HOPEFULLY BE STICKIED AND MADE PART OF THE FAQ covering all three manual trans - N/A, Type R, and the FE 6-spd - Since I have all three in my shop right now

The short answer is - No, it won't fit.

The right answer is it will fit but you need to work out a few mounting problems, the shifter sits 3.5"s farther forward, you need to do something about a speedometer, I'm not sure about the over-the-top switch, the neutral switch or the reverse lights. You need to fab a rear mount, custom driveshaft, and any trans you find will most likely be blown because of poor internals and shitty shifting. There is a fix for it though although it's not cheap and involves a complete trans rebuild. Basically the only thing that will fit is the clutch. The clutch from a TII and the FE are the same. After that, nothing else works.

It does has it's benefits though. The gearing on paper is MUCH better for a turbo engine, or even a ported N/A. It shifts smoother than the older boxes, but the overdrive really kinda sucks. But in reality, a .7 - .84 shouldn't hurt your MPG that much.

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

^^^I love you^^^

TitaniumTT

Why though, I'm not going to make a write-up of how to do it, I'm going to make a list of reasons with pictures of why people shouldn't ask about it anymore.

Then I'm going to do it

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

When you get that thing back onto the road, I want a ride.

HeyITZthatFC

Fixed.

TitaniumTT

Gladly

You're still a parrot though. Here is a graph I did over a year ago in a very similar thread where ted got all butt-hurt about being proven worng. He promptly called me a few names, put me on the ignore list, and changed his avatar to make himself feel better.

Now tell me, after looking at this graph which is a Type-R box versus the FE box, do you HONESTLY still think all they did was stuff a gear between 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 or whatever the FAQ says?

BTW, these are top speeds vs RPMS Assuming a 7800RPM shift point - MY setup

HeyITZthatFC

What is this an argument now or something?

There's a reason why I didn't remove the parrot remark, I'm simply telling this guy what I read in the faq. Why Don't you PM Icemark about what you're doing. Looks like good info and maybe he could update it then.

dean23

i like the graph

TitaniumTT

I'm not trying to turn this into an arguement nor am I attacking you. Two things make me see red regarding forums, newbs spewing **** from thier mouths about **** they know nothing about, and people parroting mis-information. It's bad for the community.

You were right in saying that you will get lower highway MPG becuase of the different overdrive gears, but saying that all they dis was stick an extra gear in between two extra's is just ridiculous as the graph supports. When I posted that graph for teddy to see he thanked me for proving his point. Retarded I know, or would that be Reteded.... regardless. He then went on to argue that the FE box can't stand up to the torque of the Renisis, how the hell could it stand up to a modded 13BT. If he had 1/4 of the brain he thinks he has he would talk to a few shops that run these consistantly on the track, and talk to a few RX8 owners that have blown them up and blown them up real good. Then he might realize what an *** he sounds like when he realized not only why they break, but more importantly WHEN they break and he'll realize that he couldn't be farther from right on this matter.

That entire thread I was trying to educate people and instead it turned into a pissing match between teddy and myself and it got locked. With any luck the thread I post will be stickied and made to be part of the faq. A thread with pictures, numbers and proof is greater than anything that ted, or any other parrot has to offer IMHO.

I think it proves an accurate point, don't you?

HeyITZthatFC

Well, as you know, I'm not ted, and (I'm sure he does too) I like gaining new information. My point being, I read the FAQ. So when you posted that graph, that's why I told you you should get Icemark to update it, or at least add another piece to it.

Also, I said "i believe that's what someone said." so I don't see the correlation of me being a parrot if I'm right about the lower MPG thing. Good job on what you're saying about the FE, and I learned more then what's in the FAQ, but I'm not the "parrot" just saying exactly the same **** as other people are anyways.

But yeah, good job again, can you link the thread where you have more info on this?

Icemark

do we really need to go through this again???

From the FAQ for FC sticky thread (people should always read the FAQ for FC sticky thread before posting.... many of the commonly asked questions (such as the one that started this thread) are asked and asnwered there:

Icemark

And the biggest issue with the tranny is not the strength of the tranny but rather that the RX-8 clutch pedal support warps over time, leading to what some drivers think is a grinding or failing tranny. When in reality it is the loose nut behind the wheel, and a worn clutch pedal assembly.

Seam welding or other re-enforcing on the clutch pedal assembly on the RX-8 and not using Royal Purple gear oil (Redline or Amsoil are better choices) fixes a "bad" RX-8 tranny 90% of the time.

HeyITZthatFC

That's pretty much what I said, from what I read. Lower mpg and what i remember someone saying about the gears. Wasn't really sure about the gear thing so I just said what I remembered.

And no I don't think we need to go through this again, I don't have much interest in that. Though you should ask that to the OP lol.

Icemark

What he is saying about the gears is basically true. In reality only 1st and 4th match up to 1st and 5th on the Asian built RX-8 tranny (the 09+ models use a Mazda built unit based on the MX-5 6 speed), but as far as day to day operation most people would never notice the difference of a lower 2nd, extra gear for 3rd, and taller 4th. Where the RX-8 and Miata 6 speed trannys excels at is if you have a high reving motor, and can use the whole RPM band... something that most stock FCs do not have.

Most people think that the extra (6th) gear is going to be an additional over drive so that is why the FAQ is worded the way it is... to dispel the idea of an additional top gear.

Of course where Brian's excel sheet fails is that the redline on the RX-8 is 9000 rpm while the FC is only 7000 rpm (unless you have a S5 non turbo, manual tranny model). So going to 8000 rpm is generally not practical on most FC's, while very common on a FE to be up to 9000 or higher (the factory buzzer kicks in 500 RPM early at 8500 but the redline is really 9200 with only minor ECU tweaks) and of course the factory ECU based speed limit on a FE is 149 MPH- not the projected 165.

Black91n/a

But if we're talking about it in terms of a tranny swap then that graph is the right way of looking at it, since you won't be changing the redline. If you were doing a complete engine and tranny swap then yes, you'd need to consider the different redlines.

Icemark

No, again, there are not too many FC's that you are going to run to 7500 RPM, when the vast majority of them run out of intake at 6000 and spark at 6500.

See that is the biggest issue (IMO) the FE motor is very unlike the FC motors. The trannys reflect this. I would be interested in seeing Brian's car with the Asian built 6 speed in it, and see how it would drive, but I am personally doubting it to be a good match or choice.

TitaniumTT

I agree with some of that Mark. In most cases it is the loose nut behind the wheel jamming gears and not knowing how to shift properly. Some of it also has to do with the nylon or plastic bushing on the shifter itself. FC's have a machined steel ball while the FE's have a little piece of plastic. MT has a machined piece available aftermkt and *I BELIEVE* the AFE short shifter has the steel piece as well. Some people that have bought the short shifter noticed an immediate improvement in shifting. All this further supports my theory that the aisan built unit is just sloppy.

FWIW my Cherokee has an aisan 5-spd as well and I started having problems with 2nd (same gear that the FE boxes detest) and switched to Redline and haven't had a problem for 100,000 miles.

What won't fix a bad tranny though is when the syncro's are already worn. I spoke with one owner that had the re-enforcement plate off the strut tower, the short shifter, and a fresh change of either royal purple or Amsoil. Off to the drag strip he went and blew the tranny before the first shift. Again, I still believe that they are just sloppy boxes.

I haven't read much about the '09's nor do I really want to as I have an '04 box sitting downstairs right now.

I will tell you though that in speaking with a few shops, the old boxes had gears that were roughly the same size as the Type R boxes gears and ~30% bigger than the Miata boxes gears. So if the new trans is based on the miata box, while it may shift better and not blow up as often, it will end up being a weaker box in the long run becuase of the smaller ears

True, but some people have ported motors that have killed thier low end, or they have "points" in thier turbo system that they would like to be above. That is where the advantage of closer gear ratio's comes into play. I remember auto-x'ing and dreading the 1-2 shift becuase I would be a little to low in the RPM range. 2nd would get most of the job done but if I found myself shifting into third it felt like a waste becase I would be in it for only a second or two. A tighter gear ration would allow you to use more RPM's while in gear without stretching the lower gear past the redline

True Mark, but we are talking about putting the box behind a 13B of some sorts, not the renisis. It would be only fair to assume the redline of a 13B. My particular setup will be good to 8,000 rpm but I am going to limit it to 7800 as the graph shows. I would think also that a lower redline would benefit more from more/closer gears. The lower the redline the lower into no torque-rotary-territory you're heading so every little bit of extra RPM's you can gain on an upshift would be beneficial.

TitaniumTT

I can't remember if we talked about my personal setup or not @ 7Stock. I'll be good to 9k on spark. Intake is another issue but from the research I have done, I should be good past 7 and approaching 8. Here's where it gets interesting though. If I do start to loose power @ 7500 and shift with the Type-R box, that puts me below the 4500 mark which creates it's own problems and tuning parameters

Me too But keep in mind though that my setup has A) never been done before, B) not like any other 13B or BT for that matter.

Barring Hell coming to CT or CA actually floating away my car will be @ 7Stock next year. You can drive it regardless of whether or not the tranny is installed. I think either way would lead to a good discussion

Icemark

Yeah, my experience with that box is one non turbo FC that I drove that had it (and it was a major mis-match) and of course the one in my '8.

I can see what you are saying with an autocross set up (where you are sitting in 2nd 3rd and occasionally 4th most of the time) and being able to hit 8K, like I said, I would be interested in driving one that was tuned to take advantage of the tighter gearing.

Yeah the Royal Purple has been having issues in the '8 gear boxes. I personally think that it is related to being a GL-5 and overheating the gear oil. Pretty much turns the gear oil into sulfuric acid. On three that I have seen with the RP in them, the gear oil all smelled like burnt sulfur... far more than it should.

But the issue with the clutch pedal assembly would never be fixed by a strut tower re-enforcement plate. The issue is related to the pedal assembly itself. There are in-sufficient welds between the plates (the factory only does a dozen or so spot welds- which tend to fail when flexed too much), so the pivot point starts tweaking which results in the master not be actuated far enough. Kinda like if you had the height mis-adjusted. I ended up seam welding my whole assembly with my MIG and have not seen any deflection at all.

TitaniumTT

I'm curious as to the specifics of the non-turbo and why you feel it's a mis-match. I can see it being a waste of effort but I think we're differing on our definitions of mis-match

You're more than willing to rape mine in a BAW/non-BAW way next sept. Or DGRR which I'll hopefully be attending.



AH!!!! That I didn't know. From what I've been told from the other 8 owners is that the firewill deflection leads to the warpage that doesn't allow the master to be fully decompressed. The way it was described to me was that by eliminateing the firewall flex uptop, the lower half of the pedal assembly stays in place and thus it works as it should. Of course this could've been what was told to him by someone hocking a shiny underhood product.

BTW - do you have the AFE short shifter? Or a spare stock shifter around?