Zer0 Cylinder

alright, this started over in the s/c thread, but it was getting off topic, it seemed different people had different opinions. so lets bring it here.

point of this thread:

1: to find how much power an n/a automatic transmission is capable of handling.
2: to find how much power an n/a manual transmission is capable of handling.
3: to find how much power a tii manual transmission is capable of handling.

so......lets hear it.

bottlejockey

i don't know if it is a matter of how much power they can hold because I blew my manual tranny when I put drag radials on my car. I have never dyno'd my car but I know I don't have 200 hp without nitrous. and I wasn't using nitrous when it happened. The guy at pineapple racing told me that it blew up because I didn't give my car enough rev's when a launched and it hooked up instead of spinning just a little bit.

White_FC

Trannies don't die from power at all..
They die from rapid application of torque.

I am of the opinion that an N/A tranny behind any motor that is making more torque than a stock N/A is not acceptable.

This is speaking from personal experience, mine blew first time I took it down to the circuit.. One good launch and it was dead.

That was only behind a, not-so-powerful- 6port high comp turbo motor.

Maybe all you guys that think they can hold any sort of torque must be using some cheap **** crappy tyres or drive like a total softy..

FWIW i'm thinking about putting a 4-speed ford toploader in my car soon..

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Not even capable of holding the stock level.

I was running 250 through mine before my turbo blew. I will still be running the NA drivetrain behind my halfbridge t04E to test it's true potential. I did have to run an ACT 6 puck/XT PP to hold the previous power level. I will be one of the first that I am aware of to truly test the NA drivetrain's potential powerhandling. I should be well over 300 when this thing runs again, so we'll see. For a modded NA or even a mildly modded t2 engine swap, with a sensible driver, the NA stuff should do fine.

--People run 500+ through them all the time. IF you break these, youre running with the big dogs anyway, so you shouldn't need to ask.

Zer0 Cylinder

hmmm so 250 through the n/a drivetrain with just the aftermarket clutch is gonna hold up fine?.......what about redlining + dumping?

White_FC

I don't agree that your are testing the 'potential' of the driveline, you obviously have never done any sort of hard launch what so ever if you had a turbo engine, or else it would've blown. Assuming you had some at least half decent tyres....

Hell, I know of a mate who broke an n/a transmission on a near stock n/a engine!!

If you just babying a car around and slowly applying the torque to it, then yeah of course the tranny will hold up. But to me that isn't realising the potential of your car/engine, whats the point in holding those two back by having a sub-standard transmission?

...maybe i'm just too hard on my transmissions...

White_FC

No, it will not hold up fine.....

_especially_ with redlining and dumping the clutch.

^read my above post

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Redlining? What difference does that make? That is stress on the engine, not the trans.

Stress on the trans comes from shock, hard shifts or clutch dumps. Don't do either.

Zer0 Cylinder

hmmm, so ive you've got a 250 rwhp setup, and rev up to say......4, 5 k rpms then dump the clutch.....its gonna rip the n/a transmission?

if you wanna drag race, you gotta shift hard, and dump....?

BDoty311

Well the n/a tranny in my n/a has seen many of drag launches, including dumps and slips. Its still here. I wouldn't want to put too much boost in front of it though. Mods in sig.

White_FC

The phrase was redlining + dumping the clutch, one could infer from that he ment doing the two at the same time....

Quote:

[i]
Stress on the trans comes from shock, hard shifts or clutch dumps. Don't do either.

Why shouldn't anyone do that? Thats just like saying that any transmission will be fine behind any motor then really....

White_FC

Your time is limited my friend.. be affriad... be very affraid....

White_FC

Yes... Your transmission WILL break...

Hell I doubt my engine even had 250hp and believe me I had NO trouble breaking my box... That was after one good launch.

(stripped 1st gear + broke something to do with the shifter mechanism, can't get 2nd 3rd and only sometimes 5th and reverse.. )

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I'm not trying to be hostile, but do you really believe that you are one of the first to "test" the NA drivetrain? 2nd gens have been around for nearly 20 years, and I have to believe that plenty of people (including me) have done some stress testing on the NA driveline. I've seen 20Bs running NA tranny, driveshaft, rear end, etc. As I mentioned in the other (supercharger) thread, I know someone with a 60-1 on a 13B-RE, bolted up to a stock NA tranny. The car previously had a half-bridge 12A with a turbo and blow-through Webber setup.

Plus, plenty of people have put some seriously torquey V8s on them.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

WHITE FC, stop being a ********. You have stated your opinion, you don't have to drive it into the ground just because I disagree with you.

Oh, I don't know, immense shockwaves travelling throughout the drivetrain perhaps? Ah, screw it, that is why we have partscars, isn't it?

Aaron, you as a mod and a senior member should know better than this. You already have your big collected thread at the top of the archives, no one is trying to steal your glory or any such BS. I could care less actually, who has done what, etc. etc. Just sharing my views.

Try reading my statement again. I did not say the first. I did say "one of the first that I am aware of".

Well, I can't say that I know of anyone on this forum or personally who has done this, anytime remotely recently anyway. Other than you. Last I heard, your car wasn't on the road anymore, but then I don't keep up with other people's doings too much.

So bottom line, I had success with my NA drivetrain, while white FC didn't. White fc thinks the NA trans can't handle the power put out by a briggs & stratton 3.5hp lawnmower. Aaron got pissed off because I mentioned that I was one of the first to truly push/test the NA drivetrain.

I think I will leave it at that.

Zer0 Cylinder

an rx7 transmission will bolt up to a domestic v8???

ddub

How many times does this really have to be discussed with the same effing answers...

Here's an idea, leave ur n/a tranny in, if it blows maybe you were running too much power, and now you can put in a TII tranny. If you're really that scared, just put the TII tranny in to begin with.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Wow...Well I didn't think it would go over that badly. I had no intention to show any hostility towards you or your opinion...Just found it odd that you would make a statement like that.

Oh come on. I'm not pissed at all. I was just caught off-guard by what you said. No insult/hostility/etc. intended.

Yeah, my car is still off the road. Two years ago I pulled everything apart with the intention to do a full rebuild on everything (engine, tranny, interior, etc.). Since I'm so busy, it's just taking damn near forever. Work is slow and steady, so it will get done...

With an adapter plate...

impact

so what would be the best way to get as much power to the back wheels witout droping the clutch and doing hard shifts...

i guess what i am trying to say is. what can a person to keep there tranny alive as long as possible and still have quick power to the back wheels?..

andrew lohaus

^^^^^ slip, dont dump the clutch. also if you know you are going to do a hard launch try to stop the car with the brakes WHILE leaving it in first gear instead of coasting or going into neutral, to keep the gears all meshed up against eachother. this way, as soon as you apply power it will go strait through all the gears instead of giving a few the chance to accelerate throught the clearance gaps and then slam into the others.
this may not help a whole lot but i dont see how it could hurt.
a good snythetic trans oil cant hurt either

ddub

Yah, it's been my experience that dumping the clutch sucks and for better launches and results a 5000rpm slip works nicely.

totallimmortal

everyone told me my NA tranny wouldn't hold up, but i've been running low 15s with 2.1 60ft times, and redline launched for about 7 months now with no problems

White_FC

Sorry mate, didn't realise I was being a ********, ps, calling people a ******** isn't the best business model I could suggest to you.

Parts cars? what are they? never ever had one of those actually...
Whats wrong with shockwaves travelling through the driveline? See I don't understand what your getting at here..

Is it the same as before when you were suggesting you were testing the capabilities of the tranny by babying it around and not putting much torque into it?
IMHO, thats not testing it, to me at least, that is adjusting the maxium capability of the car around an obvious design deficiency...
Pretty useless testing, especially concerning people like the original poster who seems to like to drag race his car to some degree.

Let me assure you he would not be the only one who wouldn't mind taking his/her car down to the local drag strip/circuit track for a bit of fun...

I don't just think they can't handle much torque.. It has been proven that they can't. Not just by me either.. Leave it at that if you want, i'd just like to know what your testing is proving? How soft you can drive your car around the streets with 300hp through an N/A tranny?

White_FC

You are still N/A right?
See its not the ammount of power your making.. it's the torque, you would be making most probably the same torque that the motor came out with way back in day when they were new.

I never had a problem with my transmission when I still had an N/A motor either, thats with constant abuse around a circuit track for every month for nearly a year. (although one of my mates blew his and he was near stock levels too).

My problems only arose after I started putting more torque through it, ie, after I turbocharged my car.

For stock N/A torque levels you'd be fine and could probably redline/dump the clutch everytime you were at a drag strip and it probably wouldn't break, why? Because i'm sure mazda designed this gearbox for stock N/A torque levels...

chris_stampe

It seems to me that your tires are as big of factor or bigger factor than the amount of power you make. It seems obvious that most any rx7 has enough torque to spin some ******* tires. Does it matter that much if you are spinning them with 100 or 250 lb ft. ??? Obviously it will a little, but having slicks on your NA with 150 lb ft and launching it on a track is going to be harder on your tranny than a 250 lb ft. turbo with some street tires.