F3CS T2 Vs E46 M3
07-03-03, 01:07 PM
#26
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hmmmmm, I dunno guys...I have a huge respect for the capabilities of a new stock M3 and the fact that it can do what it can do while passing emissions, being quiet, humble, luxurious etc...but a properly setup TII can put the hurt on a new M3 on a roadcourse. the car will just be uncomfortable, loud, stink, get bad mileage etc... a healthy TII w/ a full downpipe/exhaust, the full FCON (complete w/ FCD) a fuel pump, bigger secondaries and around 11-12 psi (port that wastegate) will net some serious pull in a light car when compared to the M3. Upgrade the glorious FC chassis w/ quality coilovers, sticky rubber and mild bracing/bushing replacement and you can go M3 hunting with ease. Just don't expect to take your lady friend out to dinner in the FC 
07-03-03, 01:31 PM
#28
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Think of it this way. He spend 50 k on his car. If you had 50k to spend on your car, that automatically means a 3 rotor conversion, spoof that, plus handling mods, and you could kill him all day in every way.
plus if he's 19 and he has an E46, then just make fun of him for mommy and daddy buying him the car.
plus if he's 19 and he has an E46, then just make fun of him for mommy and daddy buying him the car.
07-03-03, 02:27 PM
#29
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Originally posted by turbojeff
Hmm let me see your comparing a 15yr old car that sells for around $3-6K to a new 333hp $50K M3. Everything is relative, and the TII is crap relative to the M3.
IIRC the M3 will run mid-low 13's. Want your TII to run that, simple. Strip off the ac, ps, cruise, emissions, heater, spare, jack, stereo, etc. You can leave the seats and interior, add downpipe, cone filter, upgrade clutch and run with him in the 1/4 mile. We ran a bunch of 13.4s for $2002 in a 87 TII. His car might be slightly faster, but he won't pull you by much. That would be embarrassing.
If you want to beat that M3 in any other catagory than drags your gonna be spending a LOT OF $$$. Even then you'll have a race car and he'll have a completely stock streetable car that is 100% emissions legal with warranty that is quiet, smooth, etc.
Dude the new M3 will put the hurt on a stock FD no problem, the TII is a really great performer for the $$ but it isn't in the same league.
Jeff
Hmm let me see your comparing a 15yr old car that sells for around $3-6K to a new 333hp $50K M3. Everything is relative, and the TII is crap relative to the M3.
IIRC the M3 will run mid-low 13's. Want your TII to run that, simple. Strip off the ac, ps, cruise, emissions, heater, spare, jack, stereo, etc. You can leave the seats and interior, add downpipe, cone filter, upgrade clutch and run with him in the 1/4 mile. We ran a bunch of 13.4s for $2002 in a 87 TII. His car might be slightly faster, but he won't pull you by much. That would be embarrassing.
If you want to beat that M3 in any other catagory than drags your gonna be spending a LOT OF $$$. Even then you'll have a race car and he'll have a completely stock streetable car that is 100% emissions legal with warranty that is quiet, smooth, etc.
Dude the new M3 will put the hurt on a stock FD no problem, the TII is a really great performer for the $$ but it isn't in the same league.
Jeff
you were in the grassroots $2002 challenge? did you compete in the past $2003 also?
07-03-03, 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by RETed
Yep, 330+hp is going to kill you unless you got at least a full T04 turbo upgrade.  He's talking trash cause he can back it up.  Now, if you're talking twisties, you might have a chance if you can drive better than he does, but the 100+hp advantage (over stock FC turbo) is a serious disadvantage to you...
-Ted
Yep, 330+hp is going to kill you unless you got at least a full T04 turbo upgrade.  He's talking trash cause he can back it up.  Now, if you're talking twisties, you might have a chance if you can drive better than he does, but the 100+hp advantage (over stock FC turbo) is a serious disadvantage to you...
-Ted
- James
07-03-03, 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Steel
Think of it this way. He spend 50 k on his car. If you had 50k to spend on your car, that automatically means a 3 rotor conversion, spoof that, plus handling mods, and you could kill him all day in every way.
plus if he's 19 and he has an E46, then just make fun of him for mommy and daddy buying him the car.
Think of it this way. He spend 50 k on his car. If you had 50k to spend on your car, that automatically means a 3 rotor conversion, spoof that, plus handling mods, and you could kill him all day in every way.
plus if he's 19 and he has an E46, then just make fun of him for mommy and daddy buying him the car.
- James
07-03-03, 03:01 PM
#33
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yes, the car is fast and handles really well...but it's no supercar. 330 hp, 3500 lbs - the BMW doesn't do any one thing particularly amazingly...it does it all WELL. loads of performance, and it's civil!! thats the real testament to the car. the ultimate example is a 911 turbo...awd, low 12 sec. quarters, legal, tame enough for comfortable street driving. getting an FC to run w/ the BMW is realtively easy and sure u give up ride quality, noise etc...but to make an FC run 13.3 and corner at around 1G is not hard at all. put it up against the 911T and it's a lot tougher...it costs much more $ and effort for an FC to see low 12's...it isn't hard but it's $. but we are comparing apples and oranges...
07-03-03, 03:12 PM
#34
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50,000 you could buy an FC for 15,000
Carbon hood 600~800
Paint job 5000~6000
Standalone 1000~2000
2 rotor or 3 rotor build up 5000~10,000
Add GPS
Surround sound
IN-dash TV
HID UP-GRADE
Wheels
AND GUESS WHAT:
Your car will still be more exotic
Still cheaper
You will pick up more women.
AND STILL HAVE CASH LEFT OVER TO GO TO MICKY D's!
So relax
and guess what.
Carbon hood 600~800
Paint job 5000~6000
Standalone 1000~2000
2 rotor or 3 rotor build up 5000~10,000
Add GPS
Surround sound
IN-dash TV
HID UP-GRADE
Wheels
AND GUESS WHAT:
Your car will still be more exotic
Still cheaper
You will pick up more women.
AND STILL HAVE CASH LEFT OVER TO GO TO MICKY D's!
So relax
and guess what.
07-03-03, 03:14 PM
#35
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Well if he is a typical M3 owner like I have encountered you can make them crash with a 160 hp car. Consider you can handle the wheels off the car on the track. M3, Porsche, Supra, and Z usually crash at track events by lunch from my experience. These are the cars that got tacoed while trying to chase me down. (1 Z at turn 6 at Sears Point, 1 M3 at turn 6 at Laguna Seca, 1 Supra at turn 8 at Sears Point.) Tell him to bring it on on the road track, it is the only chance you have.
07-03-03, 03:33 PM
#36
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even still...bring a car like that on the track and u have some *****!! anything can happen at the track and most of us aren't pros...we hit track days bc it's fun and legal!! trash a bumper cover or fender on an FC and likely all of us have friends who can do the paint work cheap and the parts are cheap and very very accessible. trash a new M3 fender, bumper cover or headlight at a track day and you now have to shell out serious $ to fix it...if I had a $50K car I wouldn't wanna track it even if I had the money to fix it...thats what older toys like the FC are for.
07-03-03, 03:34 PM
#37
Typical M3 owner? We obviously keep different company.
Okay... to finish this nicely... Lets compare the number of hours of maintenance/labor/downtime per year a TII would require (especially if it were prepped to run with the M3) against the M3... What would you rather have bang for the buck and the headaches that come with it or an expensive car that you can rely on day in and day out and carve corners with? End of discussion.
http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?...rticle_id=6568
Okay... to finish this nicely... Lets compare the number of hours of maintenance/labor/downtime per year a TII would require (especially if it were prepped to run with the M3) against the M3... What would you rather have bang for the buck and the headaches that come with it or an expensive car that you can rely on day in and day out and carve corners with? End of discussion.
http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?...rticle_id=6568
07-03-03, 05:09 PM
#39
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100,000 miles if you take care of your car is good. My FC has 249,000 miles on it. Still runs strong. I don't have 100,000 dollars to spend on a car and on top of that when a BMW breaks it will cost a hell of a lot of money. BMW's are reliable, more reliable than an FC or FD. However, you can by other cheaper cars that will keep up.
07-03-03, 05:20 PM
#40
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Re: F3CS T2 Vs E46 M3
Originally posted by 86B
I have a friend that just bought a new E46 M3 and he always brags about it and this and that.
I have a friend that just bought a new E46 M3 and he always brags about it and this and that.
07-03-03, 05:59 PM
#41
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holy magazine racing. he might be able to beat him with a stock TII, as in maybe the kid with the m3 is a horrible driver, or ***** up a launch.
but wow the magazine racing is strong in this thread
but wow the magazine racing is strong in this thread
07-03-03, 09:54 PM
#44
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Originally posted by Barwick
I just got a new perspective on this one.. I raced a new M3 yesterday here in Warren, MI. My car is in my sig (TurboII 5 lbs boost, 13.75 @ 104.8 mph).
We were going South on Mound road, I was making a turnaround at a light, he was coming past the light, we both hit it once we're about to the entrance ramp to 696 and head West (it's a long curve), get on 696 West and proceed to do 110 around a highway curve with no other lane to go into, take it to 120 and slow back down.
The whole time I was in his lane, behind him, and he was very very slowly pulling farther ahead. Not too bad for a car that cost me $3k by the time it's all said and done.
I just got a new perspective on this one.. I raced a new M3 yesterday here in Warren, MI. My car is in my sig (TurboII 5 lbs boost, 13.75 @ 104.8 mph).
We were going South on Mound road, I was making a turnaround at a light, he was coming past the light, we both hit it once we're about to the entrance ramp to 696 and head West (it's a long curve), get on 696 West and proceed to do 110 around a highway curve with no other lane to go into, take it to 120 and slow back down.
The whole time I was in his lane, behind him, and he was very very slowly pulling farther ahead. Not too bad for a car that cost me $3k by the time it's all said and done.
-Ted
07-04-03, 12:07 AM
#45
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the thing that makes an M3 so incredible is, like someone already said, that it does everything well while remaining very civil.
My biggest complaint with the E46 is that it is incredibly boring looking. I think the 90ish M3's look really cool, but the new ones look dumb. From a distance they just look like a regular 3 series.
My biggest complaint with the E46 is that it is incredibly boring looking. I think the 90ish M3's look really cool, but the new ones look dumb. From a distance they just look like a regular 3 series.
07-04-03, 01:15 AM
#46
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Originally posted by RETed
My money says you ran into an automatic transmission...
-Ted
My money says you ran into an automatic transmission...
-Ted
Last edited by Ni5mo180SX; 07-04-03 at 01:29 AM.
07-04-03, 10:18 AM
#48
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no chance in hell, bro!! you could get like a stage 5 turbo for $14000 then u might be able too beat him!! goodluck!!
put some sugar in ur FRIENDS gas tank then u probly definitely beat him, yahahaha!!
put some sugar in ur FRIENDS gas tank then u probly definitely beat him, yahahaha!!
Last edited by jgrts20; 07-04-03 at 10:21 AM.
07-04-03, 11:09 AM
#49
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Why dont we just compaire the M3 with a newer specimen of rotary performance----the Rx8!! Oh ... wait... i guess you would want to win the race..hhmm..... LoL
Go to your local Rx7 hang out (if there is one) and fine the cocky guy with the expensive *** 3rd gen (we all know there is one or more in each group) and get him to race the M3. Let him represent the Rx7s and be like "yeah, if i had the money my car would whoop up on that FD". I dont see why people are freaking out over a 300+HP car. Yes.. its ******* imaculate and god damn if i wouldnt cut a left nut off to own one for a week, but damn 300HP isnt much now days. You should save up , get some good coil-overs, sticky *** tires, T04 setup and port your housings and run stand alone. All in all we are looking at about 6grandish give or take (pulling numbers out my ***) to be competitive with him, add that to your initial cost of the car and you are miles ahead of him (in performance). Then you have all the goodies like NZVert was spouting about luxury and class and styling, something a 15yr old japanese (for cryin' out loud, aka built like ****) car willl NEVER be able to have on the elite germans.
Go to your local Rx7 hang out (if there is one) and fine the cocky guy with the expensive *** 3rd gen (we all know there is one or more in each group) and get him to race the M3. Let him represent the Rx7s and be like "yeah, if i had the money my car would whoop up on that FD". I dont see why people are freaking out over a 300+HP car. Yes.. its ******* imaculate and god damn if i wouldnt cut a left nut off to own one for a week, but damn 300HP isnt much now days. You should save up , get some good coil-overs, sticky *** tires, T04 setup and port your housings and run stand alone. All in all we are looking at about 6grandish give or take (pulling numbers out my ***) to be competitive with him, add that to your initial cost of the car and you are miles ahead of him (in performance). Then you have all the goodies like NZVert was spouting about luxury and class and styling, something a 15yr old japanese (for cryin' out loud, aka built like ****) car willl NEVER be able to have on the elite germans.
07-04-03, 12:00 PM
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it's a diff. type of car...the new M3 is best compared in the company of 911's, vettes, 350Z's etc...it won't take much for the TII to run right with a new M3, mid 13 second quarters and close to 1 G on the skidpad are very easily attainable for the TII but as I said before it's comparing apples and oranges. hell, my GVR4 would rip up a new M3 (I'll run 12.0 flat all day) but again they are totaly different cars and even w/ a full suspension upgrade my VR4 understeers and is very slow to rotate. take these cars for what they are and what they are designed to do...