kick7ca

My 88 TII has been out of commission for over a year now. I had originally removed the fuel injectors and had them cleaned @ cruzin performance, and re-installed with new fuel lines. Ever since it doesn't run at all. Mazda dealership checked compression and said it was OK (high 70s low 80s if I recall), I checked compression and it was OK, the mechanic that has the car now said compression appears to be OK.....but he can't get it running, neither could I.

The one thing that Mazda and my current mechanic say is that it is just dumping fuel. He took the exhaust off and it was pouring out the back when he tried to start it. He smoke checked for vac leaks and couldn't find any. For these reasons he's saying he thinks that probably the engine doesn't have enough compression and he's ready to condemn it to being blown. I don't see how this could be. Wouldn't the fuel dump cause some bad compression not allowing it to run? What could cause it to just dump so much gas?

Thanks guys

jgrts20

Did they screw up on the cleaning of the injectors?

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

De-flood! Do a search for deflooding.

kick7ca

I've de-flooded it a thousand times and added oil to the chambers, it just floods itself again and again.

HAILERS

Well, just disable the fuel pump first. I dont' mean that non sense of pulling the EGI COMP, EGI INJECTOR fuses, I MEAN disabling the fuel pump by pulling it's plug if you don't already have a fuel cut switch.

Then since all the oil around the rotor seals has most likely been wiped away by now, do your thing with putting oil in the rotors housings. Whatever method you've been using will do. And rotate the engine to spread it around.

Then spray some starter fluid into the air intake filter for about two-three seconds and then start the engine. I trust you have spark. Right? The engine should start for a moment.. See if you can get that far, then we'll continue.

kick7ca

Thanks for the response. Yes there is spark. The engine will start for a moment, and runs awefully, then bogs out and dies. Try to turn it over again, and it's flooded (again).

kick7ca

FYI compression as per Mazda dealership notes:

Compression good approx 9.2 - 9.8 kg/m3 (kilograms per meter cubed).

Syonyk

Check the resistance values on the airflow meter. A bad AFM can cause all sorts of problems.

There should be a fuel pump relay under the dash you can use as a cheap fuel cut switch. It's a pain in the rear to use, but it works.

Pull the relay, get your hand under there, crank till it fires, and push the relay back in. That's my general method of starting flooded '7s that don't have a fuel cut switch.

-=Russ=-

HAILERS

'Do what Syonyk said above. But........I've a outside suggestion. Your starting problem has traits of a car with the water thermo sensor disconnected. That sensor is on the back of the water pump Housing. It has a Green jack. Can't miss it. See if it is connected.

I know this by lately playing with the water thermo sensor. Disconnected the car will barely start if the engine is stone cold. Once started it takes a lot of pedal action to keep it running until it gets some temperature in it. After it warms up, it runs like a normal car (water thermo defaults to 176*F in the ECU).

What happens is, is the mixtue is too lean if the ECU sees 176*F, if the engine is stone cold. The injectors only stay open about 6-10ms at 176*, but on a normal working water thermo sensor, the injectors stay open in the 45ms range when the engine is cold.

Just a thought. Just see if that plug is connected up at the back of the water pump housing. Hard to see. Look hard.

kick7ca

I've tested the AFM as per factory service manual, it has a new water thermo sensor, but I don't think that would explain all the flooding anyhow.

9.2 kg/m2....that's good comperession right? My mechanic is telling me he's tried everything and is says his "gut feeling" is that it's the motor, and that it doesn't have enough compression to run. Is he full of it? It's a Mazda rebuilt with 40,000 km.

TitosToy

i had my water thermo sensor disconnected for almost 2 yrs. and i never had a problem with starting the engine. there were a few times when i had to tap the throttle to keep it from bogging down but i've only done that when it gets below 60* here in fla and that doesnt happen very often. i'm not saying that you're lying, i'm just giving you my take on this.

uRizen

iTrader: (2)

I'd try to get a hold of some test injectors, they should be reasonably inexpensive in the for-sale section. I picked up a pretty nice pair of S4 NA injectors for $35 + shipping last year.

uRizen

iTrader: (2)

You live in a warm climate though. In colder climates the thermo sensor is very important to cold weather starting.

W/o it connecting the ECU doesn't add extra fuel during warm-up and the engine can sputter and die. It usually doesn't lead to flooding though.

HAILERS

No. My idea about the water thermo sensor does not explain flooding at all. I was thinking that maybe you THOUGHT it was flooded but it wasn't. Nope. My bad.

I don't know what to say about Titostoy remark. The warm weather might explain it though. I've disconnected the wire at the ECU for the Water thermo sensor on two seperate cars and they start REAL bad when cold. Cold being around fifty the other morning when I last did that.

TitosToy

ahhh...ok..that explains it. thanks

HAILERS

The 87FSM says 6.0 kg/cmsquared at 250rpm. So if its above that then it should be good.

Talking compression.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Compression, Fuel, and Spark(timing). You can turn the car to the on position and rotate the CAS to hear if your injectors are firing? You already checked spark and compression... Maybe check timing... Good luck.

HAILERS

Here's the compression chart out of the FSM:

philiptompkins

iTrader: (4)

yeah, i'd be looking at those fuel injectors for shure if u got fuel pouring out the exauhst. I think someone did a wirteup on here of how to do a ghetto test that should work, or just get yourself an extra set.

kick7ca

Well he's going to swap out the injectors tomorrow and try to start it.

His hypothesis is that the motor has poor compression and the fuel simply isn't burning, which is why it pours out the exhaust. But SEVERAL compression tests have confirmed it has compression. Why all the fuel is what I can't figure?

**Has anyone had experience with injectors sticking/over flowing after being professionally cleaned?**

I told him to check if the pintel caps are correct, and he said they were, but I can never tell if this guys full of crap. I think he discounts my suggestions because I'm not a "professional mechanic".

I simply don't have the time to be doing all this myself in case anyone is wondering. I have another car which I'm working on consantly.