Enough of NO torque!
08-26-04, 02:09 PM
#1
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Enough of NO torque!
I've been driving my parents 5 speed 97 accent around and when I rev it to around 3.5k and I drop the clutch the tires spin for high hell...
When I hop in the TII Rx7, rev to 3.5k drop the clutch, the revs drop off to about 1.5k and I slowly take off.
Why is my 7 still dead on the low end... almost 8k on the rebuild and its not getting any better.
I also have sputtering above 5k ... .. but I think I can figure that out....
When I hop in the TII Rx7, rev to 3.5k drop the clutch, the revs drop off to about 1.5k and I slowly take off.
Why is my 7 still dead on the low end... almost 8k on the rebuild and its not getting any better.
I also have sputtering above 5k ... .. but I think I can figure that out....
08-26-04, 02:13 PM
#4
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You do realize the powerband for the rx-7 is quite a bit different than that of an accord right? I know nothing about the Turbo 7's since i have NO expirence with them but perhaps check out some dyno graphs on the site, perhaps will give you some ideas. i dunno just a suggestion.
Peace,
Matt
Peace,
Matt
08-26-04, 02:16 PM
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I've regrounded my alt, battery, leading coil.... i think thats it....
I know im missing the one that has the little black box and goes to the top of the tranny...
and Im not sure about the starter ground either...
ECU grounds never been touched
I know im missing the one that has the little black box and goes to the top of the tranny...
and Im not sure about the starter ground either...
ECU grounds never been touched
08-26-04, 02:26 PM
#6
your problem is turbo lag........ the powerbang of a turbo doesnt start until about 4k.... if you only take it to 3.5k and punch it.... the motor is still trying to produce enough force to turn the turbo....... hence, turbo lag...... 99% of turbo cars are like that! if you were to race a n/a vs a t2, and you just punched the throttle, didnt dump the clutch @ 6k, the n/a would beat off the line, just for the fact that it doesnt have the lag of the turbo!
08-26-04, 02:27 PM
#7
I think I'm addicted
um.... so 3.5k drop 1.5k thats 2k
yeah....
my s5 TII picked up around 3.5k to 4k.....
i just adjusted my driving habits =D shift around 4k =D
+ a redline a day
yeah....
my s5 TII picked up around 3.5k to 4k.....
i just adjusted my driving habits =D shift around 4k =D
+ a redline a day
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08-26-04, 02:30 PM
#8
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its an accent...NOT an accord.. v6 vs a 4.... before I had to get a new engine the car would do just that .. drop the clutch and spin... i've kept my car at 4k and have drifted through a parking lot before... my car WONT do that now..
180lb/tq is still more then 90lb/torque... how do people get 2.0 60' times if the car cant move down low... its not just cause the car isnt torquey...the car seems to have a problem down low... IM NOT CRAZY!....
Sorry I had to vent!
working on the car for 4 hours a day 1-2 days a week and getting no closer to fixing the problem is getting under my skin...
180lb/tq is still more then 90lb/torque... how do people get 2.0 60' times if the car cant move down low... its not just cause the car isnt torquey...the car seems to have a problem down low... IM NOT CRAZY!....
Sorry I had to vent!
working on the car for 4 hours a day 1-2 days a week and getting no closer to fixing the problem is getting under my skin...
08-26-04, 02:33 PM
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maybe having the car off the road for over a year caused me to suck at driving a 7 and a god at driving an accent... this is the 3rd time i've driven the accent...
08-26-04, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by vipers
your problem is turbo lag........ the powerbang of a turbo doesnt start until about 4k.... if you only take it to 3.5k and punch it.... the motor is still trying to produce enough force to turn the turbo....... hence, turbo lag...... 99% of turbo cars are like that! if you were to race a n/a vs a t2, and you just punched the throttle, didnt dump the clutch @ 6k, the n/a would beat off the line, just for the fact that it doesnt have the lag of the turbo!
Its not called turbo lag like that. Turbo lag is the time between when you press down on the accelerator and when your turbo actually starts making noticable boost. The engine just doesn't make much power down there.
08-26-04, 02:44 PM
#12
actually.... we are both right.... but a turbo actually has less power lower in the revs than a n/a, because it takes power to turn a turbo, and until the turbo starts spooling, you have a loss of hp...... the t2's turbo isnt all that big, so it isnt as noticable, but w/ bigger turbo's, this lag is alot more present.
08-26-04, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vipers
actually.... we are both right.... but a turbo actually has less power lower in the revs than a n/a, because it takes power to turn a turbo, and until the turbo starts spooling, you have a loss of hp...... the t2's turbo isnt all that big, so it isnt as noticable, but w/ bigger turbo's, this lag is alot more present.
Turbo IIs have more torque than n/as. And for the most part cars with small turbos make more low end power than their n/a counterparts.
08-26-04, 03:06 PM
#14
no I don't agree with that last statement. N/A's have more torque because they have high compression rotors however turbo engines have low comression rotors giving them less torque. THis is the reason alot of people would like to put a turbo on their n/a engines becuase it is better of the line and quicker spooling and it takes way less boost to result in the same if not more hp. Only problem is that high compression rotors have less room for tuning errors.
08-26-04, 03:30 PM
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If you just drop the hammer on a Turbo engine, you'll have a hella shitty launch. Try this.
Sit there with the clutch engaged and the gear lever in first, and start blipping the throttle up pretty high, do it fast enough that your boost starts gaining a bit. When you can hear your turbo pretty loudly, rev it to 4.5 and drop it.
Sit there with the clutch engaged and the gear lever in first, and start blipping the throttle up pretty high, do it fast enough that your boost starts gaining a bit. When you can hear your turbo pretty loudly, rev it to 4.5 and drop it.
08-26-04, 03:35 PM
#17
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video example
91 turbo on Grippy concrete, 225/50-16 tires at 35PSI, hard launch @ ~5K click for short video
08-26-04, 03:54 PM
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thanks sureshot .. thats what ive been wanting to see ... i can compare...
I just found out that my trailing coil isnt arcing the way it should be... if i take off any plug from the front rotor nothing happends .. do it to the back and it almost stalls..
is this bad wires or coils?
I just found out that my trailing coil isnt arcing the way it should be... if i take off any plug from the front rotor nothing happends .. do it to the back and it almost stalls..
is this bad wires or coils?
08-26-04, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vipers
your problem is turbo lag........ the powerbang of a turbo doesnt start until about 4k.... if you only take it to 3.5k and punch it.... the motor is still trying to produce enough force to turn the turbo....... hence, turbo lag...... 99% of turbo cars are like that! if you were to race a n/a vs a t2, and you just punched the throttle, didnt dump the clutch @ 6k, the n/a would beat off the line, just for the fact that it doesnt have the lag of the turbo!
read somewhere that the TII prduces more torque at 1800rpms then does the N/A at peak
also just because you have turbo lag doesn't mean that it is goin to be slower when it is not boosting
try takin gon a boosted 302
he isn' boosting till about 4000rpms you still think you can win in an N/A rx7?
08-26-04, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by vipers
actually.... we are both right.... but a turbo actually has less power lower in the revs than a n/a, because it takes power to turn a turbo, and until the turbo starts spooling, you have a loss of hp...... the t2's turbo isnt all that big, so it isnt as noticable, but w/ bigger turbo's, this lag is alot more present.
the effort to turn that turbo isn't that much even more so being the turbo uses WASTED energy to spool.
when the motor spits out exhuast there is lots of energy potential there but that energy isn't being put to power to the mototr and hence why it is wasted energy. when using this wasted energy there isn't really any big draw on the motor itself
now when you have a supercharger thins are a little different cause rather then drawing on the wasted exhuast energy it is drawing DIRECTLY off the motor itself to spin the supercharger
08-26-04, 06:58 PM
#21
Originally Posted by rxspeed87
the effort to turn that turbo isn't that much even more so being the turbo uses WASTED energy to spool.
when the motor spits out exhuast there is lots of energy potential there but that energy isn't being put to power to the mototr and hence why it is wasted energy. when using this wasted energy there isn't really any big draw on the motor itself
now when you have a supercharger thins are a little different cause rather then drawing on the wasted exhuast energy it is drawing DIRECTLY off the motor itself to spin the supercharger
when the motor spits out exhuast there is lots of energy potential there but that energy isn't being put to power to the mototr and hence why it is wasted energy. when using this wasted energy there isn't really any big draw on the motor itself
now when you have a supercharger thins are a little different cause rather then drawing on the wasted exhuast energy it is drawing DIRECTLY off the motor itself to spin the supercharger
What is typically felt as turbo lag, is the fact that forced induction engines run lower compression, and until you have the boost raised high enough to increase your dymanic compression beyond that of a typical N/A engine, you're going to feel "lag"
08-26-04, 07:42 PM
#23
RX-7 = torqueless wonder below 2k.
I used to think that my turbo was "decent" in the low revs but when I actually face the facts, my 3cyl metro has more torque down low.
just make up for it with a few more rpms and you'll never even notice.
I used to think that my turbo was "decent" in the low revs but when I actually face the facts, my 3cyl metro has more torque down low.
just make up for it with a few more rpms and you'll never even notice.
08-26-04, 08:01 PM
#24
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yeah its the car, its not you
check your ignition coils. dont just ground them but hook up a timming light to all of them and make sure they are all firing a charge down the wires. make sure that the wires connecting to the coils from the igniter on both lead and trail are free of corrosion. those little pieces of black plastic that say T1 and T2 and L1/L2, those come off if you pull out slightly on the clips, but be carefull cause they are easy to break. my coils are dead, yeah both! The car runs but has intermitant misfires and does not idle smooth enough. If reved hard in 2nd - 5th mine will miss at 5K and then at like 5500 and 6 and even more before clearing out around 7K. It will also load up and not run right after I have floored it and I have to drive around reving it about 5K with very light load and it will clean itself back out. monkeying with coils today and cleaning the terminals helped with torque but the whole set up is shot I think. its just soooooooo inconsistant. I am in RX7 Hell. **** I'm in human hell too.
08-26-04, 08:11 PM
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PS folks hate to tell yall this but that turbo makes huge back pressure which robs the exhaust "stroke" of efficiency and polutes your intake mixture even more than it already is. It does take energy to run a turbo charger and it could be called "wasted" energy but its still important to keep that heat and those gases moving. You must be moving enough gases to force the hot side of the turbo to spin fast enough to power the cold side to positive manifold presure before you will see any increase in volumetric efficiency. that said, it should not take 3500 rpms to do this with anything near a stock turbo. Sounds like ignition to me. If I had even a stock TII, it had better feel fast as hell all the time. If I can't find some decent parts for mine soon, I'm just gonna give up and burn the damn thing down. Then I'm gonna go buy a brand new Civic and go straight to Autozone and load it out with APC everything. I mean light up fart can and EVERYTHING.
