Remzuo

Car: '90 NA

Problem: Went out to start the car in the morning, turned the key and all that turned was the starter. Pulled it into the garage, checked plugs (bit dirty, cleaned), wires, looked for spark when cranking, listened for compression of rotor (heard it, but not how many whooshes).

Have a full tank of gas, exhaust smells of gas when it's cranked. Oil's not full, but not even close to empty. Rad fluid is topped, too.

Now... I don't know if the primary injectors are putting out any gas... When I pulled out the plugs, and turned the engine for compression check, I didn't smell any gas coming from the plug holes.

Any ideas?

1SxyRXy

my 91 turbo doesnt want to start sometimes. so i just turn the key and have to give it gas. or u can just pull the egi fuse crak it for about 20 secs and pop it back in and try starting it

KiyoKix

Does the car turn over fast or slow? How's the battery...and the wires, connections to the starter and ground? We need a bit more info to help you out man.

Remzuo

Battery's fully charged, checked the connections to the starter and they're all fine... Keep asking questions and I'll answer what I can.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

1. Do you have spark? Have you verified this?

2. Jumpe the test connector for the fuel pump (passenger shock tower, yellow connector). Turn the ignitin key to "ON". Does the fuel pump run?

Remzuo

1. Yes. Tried twice, to make sure, once with the boot removed and visibly sparking with a screwdriver attached and near a ground, once with the spark plug removed and visibly sparking, trailing and leading on both rotors.

2. Yes. Don't know about where it's going, or even if it's pushing fuel through the injectors/rail, but I'm hoping you guys might be able to hint at that.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Checked connections around AFM?

Um, you didn't mention if you have tried any of the unflooding procedures. Sure it's not just flooded?

Remzuo

Yeah, everything around the AFM looks like it hasn't moved.

Possibly flooded? Okay, now I'll see what I can do. Any other ideas?

Remzuo

Well, did the EGI unflood trick, and that did nothing. For some reason, it makes me wonder whether or not compression is gone on the front rotor now. Long story short, the guy who did the rebuild on the engine only did the rear rotor, so the original seals and gaskets are on the front rotor. Would this make it more likely that the old seals did go out? If so, I'm in for another new engine, free of charge from my warrantee company. Sweet.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Well, try using oil (or...yuck...ATF) to unflood first. Then pull the plugs and listen to the compression. Should sound even. If it sounds like a galloping horse, then you've lost compression.

rotary>piston

Why didn't he just rebuild the front too? That doesn't make any sense, while you have the engine apart you might as well, to avoid problems like this later.
Try taking out the front spark plugs (so there is no resistance form there) and try starting it on only the rear rotor.
Have you tried the severe unflooding technique? Put atf/Magic mystery oil/motor oil in the plug holes to help it get compression.

Remzuo

I already cranked it several times with just the rear rotor plugs in, same with only front plugs. No go, either time. I'm going to try the oiled chamber approach in another few hours... I've got class to go to.

Wonder... Should I go get two pairs of plugs? They'll probably have to be ordered, but is it a good idea at this point?

Remzuo

Well, thanks for all the info, guys. Looks like it was flooded, and pretty bad. No loss of compression, just a whole shitload of gas. To make it easier, I took out all 4 plugs and the EGI, and shot the gas out everywhere. Messy, but quick.

Bad news: the absolute moron that installed my engine after rebuilding it apparently didn't know how to put on plug wires. He had both wires from the leading coil going to the front rotor, and vice versa. My question is, will this have damaged the break-in on the engine, and will it give me more top-end power than before?

HeffBoost

I don't think you have to worry about damage to the engine. I'm surprised it was running enough to drive it like that. Yes, you should notice a significant improvement with the plug wires all where they're supposed to go.

Your next post I expect much hooting & hollering.

dr0x

The guy that did your motor sounds like a complete moron.

Remzuo

Yeah, now I'm wondering if I can go back to the Warrantee company and bitch/complain about the fact that he didn't know enough about the engine to figure out where the PLUG WIRES go, then how the hell am I supposed to put trust in the shitty half-rebuild that he did do?

Maybe if I try to take them to small claims? Or Consumer Protection?

Remzuo

Almost forgot. I did run a compression check on it with my dad's gauge, but it was hard as hell to do. The manual says take off the relief valve, but then it won't even show the pressure reading. I had to keep on hitting the baffle each rotation, so I don't know if the reading was right or not. Anyways...

1. 30 psi
2. 60 psi (missed release valve)
3. 30 psi

I ran it again, and after hitting the relief valve evenly, it kept on going in that pattern. I'd imagine that this is definitely not where the compression should be on a S5 N/A engine, seeing as the max values in the Haynes say 85 psi @ 250 rpm.

Low compression?

dr0x

Was it the screw in type or the type you press against the spark plug hole? The fact they are all showing 30 makes me think the gauge just isnt showing a real reading. Id try again with a different compression tester. And compression should be a lot more than 85psi. That is mazda's recommended MINIMUM compression. Ideally it is at 120psi.

Remzuo

Oh, well hell. Okay, I'll go find another compression gauge. And it was a screw in.