Just curious what you used for your 'math'?

Pure water has twice the heat transfer properties of 50/50 ethylene glycol antifreeze, and the boiling point advantage is very small.

Mix Freezing Boiling
AF/Water
0/100 32(F) 212(F)
50/50 -35(F) 223(F)
70/30 -67(F) 235(F)

Substantial freeze protection, but not much boil protection

Adding 14psi of pressure however, raises the boiling point another 45 degrees (F).

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system3.htm

 

Ethylene glycol property tables from my mechanical engineering lab class. And, according to the numbers I just looked up, the heat capacity of pure water is only 10% better than 50:50. It would help if you actually looked up your numbers instead of restating what your buddy told you.


ASSUMPTIONS
I assumed the outside temperature was 30C (86F) - a nice hot day. I assumed excellent conductivity between the engine & coolant and the coolant & outside air. In reality the first assumption is reasonable, but conductivity to the outside air will increase with temperature, favoring coolant with a higher boiling point.


CALCULATIONS
I calculated the heat transfer at the boiling point - the limit of the system's cooling capacity:

Q = M * c * dT

dT = (boiling point) - 30C
c = specific heat of the ethylene glycol: water mix
M = mass flow rate of coolant

As it happens I just redid the calculations out of boredom. This time I did them for everything from 0% to 95%. The cooling capacity climbed from 0% to 35%, then dipped until 50%, then climbed again until 95%. 35% ethylene glycol is only 2% better than 50:50 or straight water. Past 65% the cooling capacity gets a lot better.


CONCLUSIONS
A 2% difference between 35:65 and 50:50 or pure water is small enough to be negligible. If you consider the underlined statement in the assumptions section, using more antifreeze is better. Especially since most people must upgrade their radiators when they need to handle more heat. Your temps will be hotter, but it will be harder for your coolant to boil. That means it will be harder for your car to overheat and harder for "hot spots" (localized boiling) to form - these are the very 2 things the cooling system is supposed to prevent.

 

Well, that does explain why Mazda recommends coring your thermostat for race use rather than removing it completely, because the restriction to flow will increase the flow rate of the coolant.

The specific heat of ethylene glycol is 0.57, while the specific heat of water is 1.0. So I was wrong, it's a TITCH more than half.

Well, I'm sorry to quote what my buddy says. I think you know him, his name is Basic Chemistry? I'm sorry I wasn't an engineering major so I wasn't around for the part where the teacher said "Congratulations, now we're going to tell you the REAL answers!"

This would stand to reason that below a certain temperature, water would cool better, but above, the mixtures would stand a better chance, because the water would transfer heat better up to a point where the increased boiling point of the mixtures would take over.

This is all supported by the following graphs :

http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0011.html

Now since you're quick to point out my "buddy" who told me these things, I'll have to remind you that so far I've cited my sources, but you haven't mentioned where you're getting your information from?

 

In your guys' opinion, which is the best radiator to use for N/A and TII? I could always buy it now and start working on installing an electric fan onto it. Also, are the aftermarket e-fans better than the Fiero GT or Taurus e-fans?

Looks like I'm sticking with the 30% antifreeze/70% distilled water mix with Water Wetter in it. Seems like a lot of people use this mix too, since it gives such a good heat transfer.

Now about the pressure caps. From the looks of it, you have to take into account the fact that higher pressure cap puts more stress on the cooling system components, but it also raises the boiling point of your coolant, which in turn is good. I would imagine it also places a bigger strain on your water pump, radiator, etc because it's causing extra pressure that the cooling system wasn't designed for. So from looks of it, I should just use OEM caps so that I don't have to worry about blowing out cooling system components. So you guys think the Performance Stant ones I have are no good?

Sounds like I'm going to pass on that radiator hose kit and Corksport radiator panel if they do nothing for you but replace broken pieces. Also, I'll get the SS oil cooler lines when I move to the oil system, but for now working through cooling system.

Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Permatex Indian Head gasket shellac compound
Mazda OEM thermostat
Mazda OEM thermostat gasket
Mazdatrix water pump
Mazdatrix water pump gasket

 

No comments on my above post?

 

Maybe because they've all been asked and answered 10,000 times?

Use the stock rad unless it's bad. If it's dead, then they Koyo or Fluidyne is fine. If you want to do some fab work, get a big Griffin rad and make it fit.

Use new hoses and T bolt clamps.

Use the stock thermostat only.

Use the stock rad cap.

 

The quest for knowledge is a laudable undertaking. However tiresome it may be for everyone else involved.

 

Yea, at this point in time I'm going to use my stock radiator and will worry about getting an upgraded one later when I do my turbo swap. I also plan on switching to e-fan for sure then too, but I'm not sure if I want to put one on my car now. It requires modifications to your current radiator as far as I can tell, if I don't have the time right now to remove the stock one and work on it for a while, and if I mess it up, I'll have to go buy a new one.

I plan on using new hoses and clamps when I do the turbo swap too, but right now all of my clamps and hoses are good and do not need replaced.

I'm going to use my stock thermostat and Mazdatrix water pump along with my OEM gaskets. I guess I'll order new stock caps, but until then I guess I can use my Stant performance ones.

Anything else to add?

 

Well, I got everything torn down and put back together and unfortunately, we couldn't seal the water pump housing with just RTV sealant and had to order the gasket. I also took off the front part of the pulley from the eccentric shaft pulley beacuse I don't use it anymore since I removed my AC and PS. While waiting for the gasket to come in I'm going to replace my clutch and do a few things. After finding the speed-bleeder install thing I decided that would be a cool thing to install onto my car. Is there any other mods or upgrades or things I should replace on my cooling system besides these things?

Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Permatex Indian Head gasket shellac compound
Mazda OEM thermostat
Mazda OEM thermostat gasket
Mazdatrix water pump
Mazdatrix water pump gasket
Mazda OEM water pump housing gasket
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap
Prestone Flush 'N Fill Kit

 

Finally got my water pump housing gasket in today, so hopefully I can have it installed and the car back up and running by Thursday.

 

Well, I finally found this thread back and now have some more money to finish working on my N/A. The only things I have left that I can think of to do are custom intake, advance the timing slightly, re-do all the grounds, and make a catch can for my PCV setup. I could also port out the manifolds or get a S5 intake setup but I'm not looking to spend a ton of money. I'm looking to get the best gas mileage and best performance out of the car that I can without tearing the rotor housings apart. I've already got the usual stuff done (emissions removal, new fluids, PS/AC removal, etc.) and was wondering if there's anything else I can do. Thanks for the help guys.

 

Forgot to add to my post above that I still need to do my fuel filter yet too.

 

After doing some more searching around, I figured out a few things I left out. So I guess here's my final list of things to do:

Custom intake
Advance the timing slightly
Re-do all the grounds
Make a catch can for my PCV setup
Fuel filter
MAF sensor resistor
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Finish depowering the PS rack
Fuel pump cutoff switch

I believe that's the last of the things I have planned mechanically for the car. Also, since I blew a coolant line and lost all my coolant, I'm going to be re-flushing and filling the car using this setup again:

Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap

Last time the mixture of coolant I had worked well until I had to switch to 50/50 for the winter to prevent it from freezing up. Also going to do the usual water flushing trick to de-carb the rotor faces. Last question is this, is it recommended that I run Seafoam or some type of fuel injection system cleaner through the car? Keep in mind I am running pre-mix. Thanks for your help guys.

 

Just thought of a few more things to do, so I added them to the list.

Custom intake
Advance the timing slightly
Re-do all the grounds
Make a catch can for my PCV setup
Fuel filter
MAF sensor resistor
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Finish depowering the PS rack
Fuel pump cutoff switch
Oil change
Re-install cruise control
New mufflers
Grease windows
Grease sunroof tracks and motor
Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap

 

I think you should stop adding to the list and start actually doing some of this stuff.
The cooling system flush has been talked about for nearly six months now...you've probably spent more time typing/retyping "Prestone Extended Life Coolant" than it would have taken to dump it into the car already.

The whole point of lists is to make them shorter.

 

The reason I'm adding to the list is because this is going to be one last big tune-up before the car is completely done. I've flushed the cooling system once before and filled it back up, but had to drain it and do 50/50 for the winter, so I'm going to re-do it 30/70 now that it's warm again. I think I've got my whole list now though and am ready to start ordering all the parts.

 

Well, I got my catch can setup nearly completed, oil changed, and fuel cutoff switch made today, and hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to get some more things done. Tomorrow I'm going to try to get the the windows and sunroof greased, reinstall the cruise control, and advance the timing. How far can I safely advance the timing just by turning the crank angle sensor on the stock ignition?

Custom intake
Advance the timing slightly
Re-do all the grounds
Fuel filter
MAF sensor resistor
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Finish depowering the PS rack
Re-install cruise control
New mufflers
Grease windows
Grease sunroof tracks and motor
Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap

 

Today I was able to finish off my catch can, advance the timing, and grease the sunroof tracks. I got the cruise control re-installed with the vacuum hose and cable, but I think I'm missing some sort of bracket that holds the cable tight. Is there anyone that could get me a picture of what the stock setup looks like in the engine bay?

Custom intake
Re-do all the grounds
Fuel filter
MAF sensor resistor
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Finish depowering the PS rack
New mufflers
Grease windows
Grease sunroof motor
Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap

 

Today I went through and JB welded the thermowax hose nipples shut. I had them capped and hose clamped before and ended up blowing one of them out, so I grinded off the nipples and JB welded the holes shut. It worked perfectly with no leaks. I also got my window tracks greased and now they don't bind anymore at all and work smoothly. Now that I've got the coolant hoses taken care of, I can flush and refill the system with the stuff I have listed below. I'm still wondering about the cruise control thing though. Is there anyone that could get me a picture of what the stock setup looks like in the engine bay?

Custom intake
Re-do all the grounds
Fuel filter
MAF sensor resistor
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Finish depowering the PS rack
New mufflers
Grease sunroof motor
Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap

 

GJ looks like your list is shorter than mine :-)

 

Can't believe I forgot it, but I just remembered about changing my O2 sensor. Today I'm going to try and get the AFM sensor resistor soldered in and thinking of dropping the headliner and greasing the sunroof motor, which will be a royal pain in the ***. Once it gets a little bit warmer outside, I'm going to flush the cooling system and order the OEM closure cap and radiator cap for the car.

Custom intake
Re-do all the grounds
Fuel filter
O2 sensor
AFM sensor resistor
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Finish depowering the PS rack
New mufflers
Grease sunroof motor
Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap

 

Alright, after doing some more looking around today I think I've finally got the last of everything on here. Now it's time to go and purchase my parts.

Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap
Check TPS, water thermal sensor, AFM, and FPR
New deep cycle AGM battery
Fuel filter
O2 sensor
AFM sensor resistor
Finish re-installing cruise control
Re-do all the grounds
Grease sunroof motor
New mufflers
Custom intake
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Send fuel injectors out to get cleaned
Finish depowering the PS rack

 

Figured out the scoop on my O2 sensor and fuel filter. Hopefully today going to check out those sensors to make sure they're working correctly and fix a leak in my tire.

Prestone Extended Life coolant/antifreeze
Red Line Water Wetter (30% coolant/antifreeze + 70% distilled water + Water Wetter mixture)
Distilled water
Prestone Super Radiator Flush
Mazda OEM radiator cap
Mazda OEM closure cap
Check TPS, water thermal sensor, AFM, and FPR
New deep cycle AGM battery
Mazda OEM Fuel filter
NGK O2 sensor
Finish re-installing cruise control
Re-do all the grounds
Grease sunroof motor
New mufflers
Custom intake
S5 intake setup or port my stock manifolds
Send fuel injectors out to get cleaned
Finish depowering the PS rack

 

Hey there wolf, since my car is sitting pretty on my driveway waiting for me to take out the engine and rebuild it, I took pictures of the Cruise Control position and some of the connections.


Top Left of engine bay



Two lines coming from the unit and going towards the throttle body


I wasn't to sure which nipple it connected to, just that it was closest to the green connector


You can see the bracket where the wire is connecting to from the CC


and just an aerial view of with all kinds of stuff in the way, but the path that leads to that bracket


I do hope it helps you. BTW, my car is an 87 GXL NA

 

Alright, I do have it hooked up correctly then besides that I'm missing the bracket that it hooks to next to the throttle wheel. I've got the vacuum line and CC actuator hooked up correctly. Just to make sure, the cable comes from the actuator, then connects to a bracket, then connects to the throttle wheel? Is the bracket integrated into the thermowax, or is it bolted onto the throttle body by itself?