Ice_Wolf

So, I undertook a project starting this passed Tuesday. I'm currently in school for Auto Technology and decided this would be a good time to install my emissions block off plates and do a tune up on my RX-7. I found all the write ups for the various projects, and started.

So far, I've got the EGR, ACV, BAC, and OMP all completely removed and blocked off including lines and vacuum caps. I also removed the air pump and lines completely, including the canister under the passenger's side headlight. I capped off the front and rear coolant lines and put some hose clamps on to secure them. The OMP lines were all removed, along with the rod and vacuum hoses. I found some bolts to put in the oil injector holes and put some RTV sealant on them to make them air-tight. All that's left is to put the pre-mix oil into the tank. I made sure to put an adequate ammount of RTV sealant on the block off plates and tightened them down securely so they should not leak. I removed the sub-zero start assist tank on the passenger's side of the firewall and the line that connected it. I'm currently waiting on the sub-zero start assist block off plate to come in so I can finish blocking that system off. Then I can add my pre-mix oil to the gas tank and be done with the emissions/systems block off project.

I also took note to remove the FPD and install the banjo bolt from Summit's website. My FPD was actually ready to fail, the spring inside was loose and the plastic was starting to crack. Good thing I decided to tear things down. I'm currently waiting on that bolt to come in too so I can finish that part of the project.

I also decide to remove the sleeves and actuators from the lower intake manifold and 5th and 6th ports after reading a few things. I took the sleeves and actuators out today, but have yet to remove the rods and make the block-off plates. I was thinking of using 1/8" aluminum and just using the stock screws along with some RTV to make the block-off plates. While I was doing this, I also had time to degrease and brush the engine a little bit. I cleaned up the top of the housings, along with the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold gasket area and also the intake ports. Once again I can actually read the 13B Mazda on the housings. Looks pretty nice now with things cleaned up. I made sure to wire brush the wiring harness grounds and connectors to make sure I have good grounds. All I have left is to remove the rods and make some block off plates for them and I'll be done there.

Removing the rat's nest has been coming along nicely too. If I remember correctly, all I've got left to do is to make the fuel lines and it's done. I've got most of the vacuum ports capped off on the TB and intake manifolds, and only have a few to go. I'm still debating if I want to make a catch can for the oil tube, but that may be a later project.

Along with all of this, I've got my platinum OEM NGK plugs to install, along with ny OEM NGK wires. I've got my dual belt alternator pulley already installed onto the alternator, and 2 Goodyear Gatorback belts ready to go on. I've also got my OEM gaskets ordered from the Mazda dealership, so those should be here soon.

I was thinking of doing some porting, but I can always do that once I get everything back together and make sure everything else works correctly. My gaskets should still be plenty good after I put the new ones on, so it's not going to hurt to take things apart again, especialy since I have the emissions and vacuum lines removed. So, my question. Is there anything else I should/could be doing while I have the engine still apart? And also, what are you guys using for pre-mix oil? Thanks for reading.

adrock3217

If you have the means to do so..get rid of the vacuum caps on the coolant lines, or at least the one right on the motor. I had a cap on my GTU for about 30 miles!! And it was already cracked!


On my rebuild, I absolutely getting them cut an/or welded shut.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

agreed. cludwig lost a race motor to a cracked, failed cap on the coolant lines and i know he isn't the only one to have had this problem. i ended up buying a long section of hose and looping it to be on the safe side.

Beep777

How do your cars run after doing all this? Is the idle smooth or bouncy? Any noticeable increase in power or pepiness?

Brian

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

it doesn't run. hahahahaha, i slay me.

ouch........

Ice_Wolf

I'm going to try out the caps for a bit and see how they work I've got rubber ones on there now with RTV sealant and some hose clamps, so I guess I'll see how good they work. If they do end up breaking, I'll weld them shut or loop it. Anything else?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I hope this is a track only car, because no good can come from removing the BAC, cold start system and auxillary port actuators. At the very least put those items back on. You'll thank me because you will gain back all the low end you lost removing the ports, and the car will now idle when cool.

Ice_Wolf

The car is going to be a "weekend" only car, and is not my daily driver. I'm basically stripping all the things off the car that are not needed. I see no reason for needing the cold start system or BAC because the car will no longer be driving in the cold. Also, I removed the actuators and sleeves because I had read from a few members that they do take away some low-end torque, but you gain in the top end.

Carzy Driver

I understand the importance for keeping the BAC and 5-6 port actuators, but why the cold start system when it doesn't even work?

Ice_Wolf

I did a little more reading, and it looks like the only other things I can do would be the engine grounding write up and to port my manifolds. For now, I'm just going to finish off the things I listed and finish following the emissions block-off write up on Kevin's website, which also includes the TB mod. After I've finished those and making sure everything is working correctly, I will probably take the manifolds and TB back off to do the engine grounding and porting. Everything else that I've seen does not require tearing the engine down, such as AC removal and PS removal and adding an aftermarket exhaust. That's about all I have left to say for now. Anything else you guys have to add?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

A cold start is anytime you start the car after it has been sitting 5 or more hours. There is no logical reason to remove the cold start thermowax and cold start cam unless you enjoy having a car that is a royal pain in the butt to drive until it warms up.

The BAC is responsible for maintaining the engine's idle. Without it, any load placed on the engine will drag the idle down.

There is NO GAIN in removing the port sleeves. In fact, without them, airflow through the ports is MUCH, MUCH worse. And they take a LOT of low end torque away. The difference is extremely dramatic.

You are confusing the sub-zero assist with the cold start thermowax and cam. Two different systems. The sub zero assist never worked and can be removed. The cold start thermowax and cam is responsible for the 1500 RPM idle when the engine is warming up.

The grounding writeup in the archives is aweful. Here's a proper one:
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/grounding.htm

No point unless you are very, very bored.

Ice_Wolf

I don't really have a problem with letting the car warm up, because it is something I always do anyways. Before I start driving any of my cars, I let them warm up and idle for at least 3 or 4 minutes before driving. During the winter last year, I let the RX-7 warm up for at least 8 minutes before driving it. I'd rather remvoing the accelerated idle system anyways, mostly for the fact that immediately reving the engine up to 3500 RPM's when it's stone cold is not good for it.

If removing the BAC is so bad, then how come the make the block-off plate for it and many people remove it?

About removing the port sleeves - how come people on the forum say that the low end torque you lose is so little, but you gain a small amount in the top end? If this wasn't true, why would people be removing their port sleeves and actuators?

Thanks for grounding write-up. Looks better than the one in the archives.

Why would porting my manifolds not be worth my time? I know for a fact that porting the manifolds can give you very cheap HP, not to mention I have time at school that I can port them. It's not like I'm short of time at school because I'm in Auto Technology, so my whole day revolves around working on cars.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

All of that is totally ridiculous. Start the car, put on your seatbelt, then drive. "Warm up" periods are nothing but a waste of time and gas. The car will warm up just fine being driven...

Like most emission blockoff plates, they are sold as "offroad use only" for track cars mainly. People remove the BAC from their street cars for the following reasons:

1. They are stupid. They don't understand the system so they freak out and remove everything that scares them.

2. They really don't know either way, and listen to person #1.

3. They want a "cleaner" engine and don't care how much it inconveniences them to get it. Who cares if the engine doesn't cold start, idles at 1200 RPM and wants to stall everytime the headlights are turned on? The engine bay is slightly neater! Yay!

4. They have a very specific reason to do it like monster porting (that the BAC cannot regulate anyway), custom intakes, standalones, etc.

1. They are stupid. They don't understand the system so they freak out and remove everything that scares them.

2. They really don't know either way, and listen to person #1.

3. Someone on "the forum" has told them that it's a good idea without a shred of proof or any experience, but they have like 5,000 posts so they must be right.

A few HP gain in my mind is not worth the 5 hours it takes to remove, port and reinstall the manifolds. And if you screw up and kill flow or velocity, you will lose power. The stock manifolds have been tuned by Mazda to match a stock ported engine perfectly. I don't think anyone has ever shown significant dyno gains with a ported manifold...However if you have the mainifolds removed, you might as well port match the gasket surface.

Surly the teachers at your school of Auto Technology are giving you similar advice as I am?

AF_H1VLTG3

Ill vote for Aroncakes technical knowledge. When the heard move so do the people at the back without knowing why...

Ice_Wolf

The reason I let my cars warm up is because the Probe is a turbo vehicle, which I like to let he oil and water circulate a little through the engine first so I'm not boosting on a cold turbo. Also, the Probe runs like crap when it's stone cold, so that's the other reason for letting it warm up. Same goes for the RX-7. If I don't let it warm up for at least a few minutes, it runs like crap. This isn't a big deal to me.

If the idles higher without the BAC, why would Kevin's website tell you to bump up the idle? It's not a big deal to be if the engine doesn't cold start, mostly because I don't like the fact that it revs up to 3500 RPM's right away, especially since I have a thicker oil in the car and would like it to circulate through the system a bit before the car takes any abuse. Those are my reasons for removing it.

About the port sleeves and actuators - I'm going to remove them, and if I decide that I do not like how the car runs without them, I'll clean them and put them back in. I can tell you for a fact that mine were very gummed up. I was barely able to turn them with a vice-grips on the rod, so they needed to be removed for cleaning anyways. Also, I'm not just taking them out because I read it from a random member. I've read a few posts by Mazdaspeed7 about them, and decided to give it a try. Seems like he has a decently built up N/A, so I figured I'd try it.

So basically, youi're saying only port the manifolds if you've got the time to spend on them and do it right, which I will when it gets cold. Wish me luck!

And no, my teacher at the Auto Tech shop only instructs on piston engines. He's ignorant to rotaries.

importsown

Why does your car run like crap when its cold? My 88 N/A runs perfectly fine when its cold.

The BAC isnt the cause of the 3500 rpm startup situation. Notice how it goes down to ~1200-1500 rpm after about 10 seconds? Thats because the AWS (accelerated warmup system) lasts for that long. If you didnt know that, why did you go about removing a different system you didnt know anything about? The BAC holds the idle when accessories are turned on, for instance headlights, stereo, A/C, etc, when the engine load increases, but it only works to a certain limit (thats why it dies if u just drop the clutch, which is huge load). And the cold start cam is what holds the rpms slightly higher than idle (bout 1200-1500) and slowly drops it down to idle (~800rpm) when the vehicle is warm enough. A stone cold vehicle runs very rich and idles very rough if u try to idle it too low. I imagine if its removed u have to sit there and give it gas, like a motocross dirtbike, until its warmed up.

And about the 6PI removal, bad idea. You only gain very little top end (bout 5% probably), and for that to happen you need to do it PERFECTLY. I would deem it useless on an even close to stock engine. Doing it correctly also involves JB welding the holes shut, etc etc. If you feel like modding the 6PI, get the pineapple racing sleeves, I hear many good things about them. Oh, and most people that remove the 6PI often drive in high rpm ranges all the time, and almost always the system was not working properly beforehand. The low end loss is HUGE with them removed/wired open. Trust me, my system was stuck shut when I got my car, and after addressing it, and hooking it up to the air pump (i have no cats) it works perfectly IMO. It engages a little lower (about 2800 rpm compared to 3500 rpm), but around town when im not in a rush i keep it below about 3kish usually anyways, 2500 in all other gears except first. So when im opening it up the ports are always open anyways.

Now I am not very well educated in porting the IM's, so leave that up to the vets to explain to you.

Hope this is all clear to you, I tend to ramble when im trying to explain stuff.

Edit: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...80#post5782980 This is a very good thread and helped me solve all my 6PI problems. It is VERY easy to hook the system up like the system show in that thread, thats exactly how I have mine right now. Also, if you dont like your car revving to 3k+ rpm (i dont either), start the car in first gear and leave it there for about 15 seconds, then u can put it in neutral and let the clutch out. It will prevent the AWS from engaging.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Then there is something wrong with both cars. Neither car (both being "modern" EFI cars) should run like crap when it's cold. And it takes all of 2 to 3 seconds for the turbo to be oiled, so there is not reason to worry about that either. Drive the car easily until it warms, then you can beat on it.

The car doesn't idle higher without the BAC. The increase in idle speed is because YOU HAVE TO SET THE CAR TO IDLE HIGHER to avoid stalling the engine when it gets loaded (via vacuum or electrical).

You can easily disable the 3K startup. This has nothing to do with the BAC.

Fair enough. But a "decently built" NA is far different then a stock port car...

An engine is an engine. With the exception of the ports, nothing discussed here is different.

Ice_Wolf

Well, I guess we're basically at a standstill on this one till I actually fire the car up and see how it runs without the actuators and port sleeves and the BAC. So far, everything seems to be right. dDuB has been a huge help to me through this process, and I want to thank him. I completed most of the TB mod today, as it was part of the emissions removal guide I'm following. As far as I can tell, the only things I have left to do with the engine torn down is the grounding how-to and manifold porting, which I've decided just to save until after I get everything together and working right. After that, I plan on removing the PS and AC. Guess that's all I have for now.

Ice_Wolf

Got a couple of questions here. First of all, where does the vacuum line for the cruise control hook up? Next, the pressure sensor near the airbox hooks up to the UIM correct? And lastly, the primary bleeder thing that's on the LIM, should I cap it or hook it up where it was stock? Lander's write up says cap it, but the archive here says keep it stock.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

The Factory Service Manual contains complete vacuum diagrams for the car, and is available for free in the FAQ.

The cruise connects to one of the spare nipples on the back of the lower intake.

The pressure sensor connects to the middle nipple on the upper intake manifold flange.

The primary air bleeds connect to a fresh air source on the row of nipples at the BACK of the throttle body.

This is all covered in the FSM.

Ice_Wolf

Alright, I found where all those things hook up. Next question. After removing all this stuff, how do I hook the throttle and cruise control linkages back up? It seems like I don't have any place to mount them to anymore after removing those parts.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Uh, reinstall the brackets on the throttle body?

ra ra rotory

Damn it man, You should keep the 5th and 6th ports, you loose ALOT of power in the bottem end.. ya know.. where your cars going to be running 95 percent of the time.. but whatever..

And, if you simply left that little BAC on, you wouldnt have to hold the gas down after you start it.. but, I guess your going for that 'race car' effect.. Did you also remove your interior? I heard that its worthless...

fidelity101

iTrader: (11)

I beg to differ I raced my friends S5 NA with similar mods and he has working 5th/6th ports and I pulled away from him, I have my rods and everything removed and JB welded a dime to cover the holes on the LIM, it feels like more of a pull up top and i didnt notice a whole lot of low end torque loss, cause there is no torque to begin with. yeah the uphill driving sucks and its loud cause of the ehxuast, but thats mostly my aluminum flywheel.

and no I dont have stock ports, its a rebuild with a minor street port.

Ice_Wolf

What do the brackets look like exactly? What were they attached to? I can't seem to find them sitting on my bench. Could anyone get me pictures?

Like I said, I'm keeping the 5th and 6th ports out until I drive the car and decide if I like them or not. I hear people that say they are to be left in, and people that say taking them out is nice too.

And I'll see how I like it without the BAC. If it sucks, I'll put it back in and be good to go. No harm done.