zoom87zoom

well my car finally is going to the paint boot ... so now is time to talk about motor swaps. well i was gona go for the TII but i dont know i kind like the idea of the
20B but heard that they or veary expensive swap in other hand maybe a 13B-RE would be cheaper at least thats what i heard but hey i dont know... so i need some ideas on that matter what is recomend to put on the fc3s that i can get power with out spending lots of money... if i can get something at least up to 400HP i will be happy can i get that with the TII ?? so i need to know what you guys think ???

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

400rwhp is by no means cheap. If you got a TII block already then rebuild it and upgrade everything from there. 13bre is hella nice but for your goals a TII can do it without a hassle if you have the proper stuff. Also 400hp is a really good amount of power for a FC, you probably would still be happy even if you didnt make close to 400.

zoom87zoom

So what you aying is keep the TII and upgrade and i will get to 400 or closer?? but question is would i spend the same amout of money to get that 400hp then if just do a 20B swap?? what im trying to say is i dont wanna spend the same amout on of money of the 20b swap to upgrade the TII so im looking to get that 400hp or close to it but if im gona spend the same as 20b i just go with the 20b!! what you think?

LunchboxCritter

iTrader: (9)

To reach your power goal you're going to need a big turbo, injectors, stand-alone, exhaust, upgrade cooling system/radiator, wide-band, etc. You will need these things reguardless of which engine you chose to build upon.

That being said a TII swap is going to be your cheapest route. I would recommend a fresh rebuilt, and maybe even some street porting while you're in there.

A good JDM swap and rebuild and you're looking at $3,000-$3,500 (including engine, trans, rear-end, drive shaft, half shafts, rear diff, ecu, etc.) (not including aftermarket turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.)

A 20b long block is going to run you $3000-$4000 depending on mileage, accessoris, etc.

Do some shopping around, you might find a deal on a 13B-re for not much more then a TII.

My $0.02

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Get an S5 TII engine and TII drive train. You'll need a standalone, FMIC, upgraded injectors, fuel pump, exhaust, etc. etc.

A 20B swap will be $20,000.

A 400HP FC is scary fast. You will NOT make a 400HP FC that is reliable without spending a good chunk of change (figure about $5K) unless you invest a LOT of time into scrounging around for parts or use parts of questionable quality. Yeah, you can buy a $500 eBay China turbo and it will probably work...probably. But realistically you'll have $3.5K into your turbo and EMS.

zoom87zoom

ok !!! lets say i go with the 13b-re would i need mods to get it to fit see im looking to spend about 8k to get to the 400hp thats my goal or at least veary close to it i need to know what engine will get me there with that much money... if i blow more then that my wife will have my head. lol .....

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you can get a name brand quality turbo capable of 600WHP for $500 these days, many people run them. they are called master power T-70 and now the T-72 version. there is obviously better turbos out there but those have been proven to work and last(they just spool slightly slower due to the non BB CHRA due to price). engine management is another $1k+, depending on who he can find to tune and what they tune.

most of the costs of building a car is into paying a knowledgable person to build the car for them. because truthfully, most of these guys don't have what it takes to put a car together that is ready to hit the dyno and put down any reputable figures. i will say even $5k for a 400+ WHP 7 build is a pipe dream, unless the person doing the work does it all themself. that all of course includes the cost of the new engine build because a 10 year old stock T2 motor isn't going to last long doing that, i'm also taking a T2 platform car already, if it's n/a then they should just get these thoughts out of their head regardless of who has done what on this forum, it's just not worth the headache. even you aaron i think can admit that the n/a tranny is too weak and the half shafts will snap or toss the pinion out the snout of the diff case. enough is enough with the n/a platform can handle it bs. i still haven't even seen what model the OPs car is yet so i assume it is a non turbo(mainly because 90% of the people that come and ask me all want some insane amount of horsepower and then i look at their car and shake my head). the T2 and n/a are 2 drastically different cars with much varying reliability levels when power is applied to each.

i do the work about as cheap as it comes for a shop and there's no way to make a reliable 400+whp car for that figure if he has to come and ask for advice.

the 13BRE requires an engine mount adapter which you can get from banzai racing. the engine itself is a better starting point since it has higher compression rotors so the turbo will be more responsive and the irons have larger runners for more airflow capacity but the engines all have the same power output potential. the engine short blocks can handle approximately 600WHP before dowel pinning becomes necessary and hardened stat gears installed, some members have even claimed to break 700 to the wheels on basically stock motors.

-Crash-

Listen to Karack and Aaron, they are two very experienced people.

Its all about power to waight ratio, 400+ hp you wouldn't know what to do with, FC's are not heavy by any means, 300+ is a very fast street FC.

Maybe you should think about swaping in a vertually stock motor(rebuilt), getting it running so you get a feel of how fast the car is stock, then build it from there. The first place to start is to figure out what you want the car for (dayly driving, track, drift ect.). Because depending on its use you'll want different power and up grade goals.

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

i guess my info dont mean nadda lol

zoom87zoom

hey karack how hard is to put the 13B-RE on the fc those it need lots of mods to get to fit in place ?? and how much you think would cost to put one in the fc and if i go with the 13B-RE what other parts would i need to make a complet swap ??

zoom87zoom

the deal is i live in a city that has lost of tuners and muscle cars and im the only one in my twon that has a fc3s runing and im a N/A so im only puting out 146HP and the rest 350-600hp so i wanna do something to show that the fc is not a joke so if i can get to like 380hp better 400 that would be great we got a rotary tuner in my town that only tunes rx7 i will be heading there way when the car comes out the paint shop so i just want some ideas so when i get there i can tell then HEY THIS IS WHAT I WHANT... but so far the 13B-RE has catch my eye .....

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Do you have 10 thousand dollars?

Yes/No

LunchboxCritter

iTrader: (9)

I would think you could get to or at least close to your power goal for $8,000.

S5 TII Swap
Guess-timates (high guesses):

Engine Swap (jdm engine, drivetrain) $2500.00
Engine Rebuild $1500.00
Stand Alone ECU $1000.00
Turbo $1000.00
Manifold $250.00
Wastegate $250.00
Injectors $500.00
Exhaust $900.00
Intake $200.00

Puts you at $8100.00. Most parts can be sourced for less then estimated, so you should be well within your budget.

Sidenote: Before deciding on stand-alone contact the person you are going to have tune your car and ask what he/she is most comfortable using.

zoom87zoom

FC3S Pro: Cosmo 13B-RE engine swap

Stock power output: ~200ps on Mazda Cosmo
Power potential: 500bhp+
Engine swap difficulty: 3 out of 5

In addition to the more popular 3-rotor 20B-REW, there is a smaller 2-rotor 13B-RE engine from the Japan-only Mazda Cosmo. Dimensions are similar to the stock FC3S 13BT engine, so there is very little problems getting this engine to fit. One of the big differences between the FC3S 13BT and the Cosmo 13B-RE is the sequential twin-turbos on the Cosmo 13B-RE. Although it's almost impossible to retain the sequential operation of these twin-turbos (which requires the use of the stock Cosmo ECU), you can mod the sequential twin-turbos to run in non-sequential mode.
[Cosmo 13B-RE engine - ~$1,500]

Engine Mounts
The hardest part of the engine install is the engine mounts. If you can fabricate some custom engine mounts, this'll make things a lot easier to bolt in. Luckily, you can buy these pre-made by the following vendors:
K2RD.com > http://www.k2rd.com/
FC3S.org > http://www.fc3s.org/parts_services/1...so_mounts.html

Transmission
The Cosmo 13B-RE bolts onto the stock FC transmission with no problem. The Cosmo 13B-RE only comes with an automatic transmission option, so it will most likely have a counterweight and flexplate attached; if your engine did not come with a counterweight, you can use a Kouki FC3S/FD3S stock flywheel or automatic counterweight. If you are going to use an aftermarket (lightened) flywheel, the automatic counterweight is required. The automatic transmission counterweight makes it easy to install an aftermarket (lightened) flywheel in this case. Be sure to install a new pilot bearing and pilot bearing seal before installing the clutch.
[Lightened flywheel - $400; ACT Heavy Duty clutch kit - $350]

Turbos
The stock twin-turbo system does fit within the FC engine bay. As mention above, it's almost impossible to control the sequential twin-turbos properly; modifying the twin-turbos to run in non-sequential mode is practical. Else, you can always go with a large single turbo set-up. All the aftermarket 2-rotor (13B) turbo manifolds should fit with very little work.
[HKS cast turbo manifold - $300; turbo - $1,500; oil/water SS AN lines and fittings - $200; intake piping - $100]

Exhaust
3-inch exhausts are the typical sizes for these engines. A custom downpipe is in order whether you're going with the stock twin-turbo system or large single set-up.
[Custom downpipe - $100; aftermarket exhaust - $800]

Intake/Intercooler
You might run into minor fitment issues with the upper intake manifold and/or the stock intake piping on the Cosmo 13B-RE if you're keeping the stock twin turbos. The stock Cosmo uses a front-mounted intercooler, so you'll need to have a front-mounted intercooler installed on the FC3S.
[GReddy V-Spec front-mount intercooler kit - $1,200]

Oil Cooler Lines
If you're still running stock oil cooler lines, it's a good idea to run some SS braided lines for this project. If you alrady have a set of aftermarket oil cooler lines, they should fit the Cosmo 13B-RE with very little fuss.
[SS -10AN oil cooler lines with AN fittings - $200]

Cooling System
The stock FC3S radiator is borderline for this project. You can also retrofit an FC3S 13BT water pump housing, water pump, and thermostat housing to replace the odd Cosmo 13B-RE units; it's easier to find replacement belts, since the Cosmo 13B-RE uses both serpentine and v-belts. If you're keeping the stock Cosmo water pump (housing) both upper and lower radiator hoses might need to be addressed, as water pump housing outlets are slightly different.
[Upgrade radiator - $500; stock FC3S water pump housing, water pump, gaskets - $300]

Fuel System
The stock fuel injectors are 4x550; identical to the FC3S 13BT. It's always a good idea to upgrade the fuel pump. Keep in mind the stock fuel injectors are only good up to about 250bhp to the flywheel.
[Walbro upgrade fuel pump - $150]

EFI/Stand-alone ECUs
The stock FC3S 13BT ECU can push the Cosmo 13B-RE, with the exception of the sequential twin-turbo system. This is the beauty of this conversion. A stand-alone EMS would make for more efficient power.
[Haltech E6K with all options - $1,500]

Additional "Problems"
We've already mentioned the hood clearance problem if you're keeping the stock twin-turbos and intercooler piping. The front of the upper intake manifold may contact the hood slightly as does part of the power steering pump.

Bottom line...
The conversion can be done cheaply. The stock FC3S turbo ECU (and ignition system) can control the Cosmo 13B-RE fairly well. To extract the full potential of this engine swap, a stand-alone EMS is highly recommended. Power ceiling can top over 500hp, but the budget starts to edge toward the $10,000 mark. This is not a very popular swap at the moment, but these engines are readily available from most Japan import engine dealers.

zoom87zoom

what you guys think???
but if the 13B-re only comes with automatic how can i convert to manual??

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i honestly would just stick with the 13BT engine since it's a direct bolt in and with porting it flows about as well as the 13BREW and 13BRE. the turbo and EMS are the most important things to making power in these cars, there is also the factor of supporting mods like complete fuel system and exhaust. people only put in the RE and REW engines to be "different". if you can get an S5 T2 they have higher compression rotors that combat the slight bog you will get from the low compression S4 T2 engines daily driving off the line, the S5 T2 engine is the same compression as the 13BRE and REW engines at 9.0:1

the 13BRE bolts right up to any FC transmission, there is just a flat spot on the iron where the auto starter used to be, you also will need a new pilot bearing since they have none in the e-shaft.

zoom87zoom

karack on your personal opinion .. what do you recomend go with the s5 t2 and just dump all that money in to it .. or just go with the 13b-re??

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

If you have a S5 TII block and the core is good then just rebuild/street port that. Geez

20Bforme

qft

Black Knight RX7 FC3S

iTrader: (7)

I would just go with whatever is going to give me less headaches. That would be a ported s5 block, with a gt 35r turbo or similar and a standalone. 400 hp is easily doable.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

the "i want power and do it cheaply" will ultimately kill you.

if you keep the "I want it cheaply" in mind, your project will fail.

Nismo Convert86

iTrader: (7)

Cheap, fast, reliable... Pick two.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

like talking to a parrot.

zoom87zoom

is not about being cheap is about what i have to spend now and all i got is 8k and i was wonder if i can get 400hp or close to it with that amount !!! i got a N/A nowand when i do the swap i want something good ...