View Poll Results: Is it worth 60-80 Dollars to go for the LTX12?
Yes
4
100.00%
No
0
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Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll
Engine Management, Wideband, and Dataloging oppinions please.
01-05-04, 10:10 PM
#1
Engine Management, Wideband, and Dataloging oppinions please.
Ok You all may know that I am preparing to buy all the parts to start fixing my TII and bringing it up to the level that I want.(~350-400rwhp) I have been looking at Engine Management seriously for the past month or so and I narrowed it down to three systems: Haltech E6X, Microtech LTX8, or Microtech LTX12. At this point I have given up on the Haltech for budget reasons and the fact that Haltech doesn't have a Hand controller. So now its comming down to the wire with the LTX8 and the LTX12 system's from Microtech. The winning point for me is basically the datalog and wideband support. Simply put the LTX8 doesn't have either of those. But knowing that there is a vast array of Inexpensive wide band O2 sensor kits out there I went out and searched for the more popular ones that I have heard of: TECH EDGE(Version 2.0), PLX DEVICES M-300s, and the INNOVATIVE Wide Band O2 Sensor Kit offered to us by our beloved Rx7store. I was hoping that I would save some money by buying a wide band kit and opting for the LTX8 since it is cheaper than the LTX12. Attatched is a little spreadsheet I did about cost and I included some features and such:
Basically it is cheaper to go with one of these two options: LTX8+PLX DEVICES O2 kit or LTX8+INNOVATIVE O2 Kit. But that is not my dilema. I am trying to do the best that I can and these two options are only better by 60 or 80 dollars compared to going with an LTX12 system and its own Bosch Wide Band sensor. The benefit of going with the LTX12 is that it will all be in one unit and I can datalog for 5 minutes BUT its not datalogging for the wideband only it is IN ADDITION also a logging of "all inputs and outputs" meaning all the sensors hooked to the ECU will get logged for upto 5 minutes.(This should be ample time considering a dyno run might be 20 seconds or so) This compared to just wide band logging is in itself more usefull as I could analyze the entire range of sensors the ECU is using as opposed to the O2 sensor only.
So my Dilema is: IS IT WORTH 60-80 DOLLARS?
Santiago
Basically it is cheaper to go with one of these two options: LTX8+PLX DEVICES O2 kit or LTX8+INNOVATIVE O2 Kit. But that is not my dilema. I am trying to do the best that I can and these two options are only better by 60 or 80 dollars compared to going with an LTX12 system and its own Bosch Wide Band sensor. The benefit of going with the LTX12 is that it will all be in one unit and I can datalog for 5 minutes BUT its not datalogging for the wideband only it is IN ADDITION also a logging of "all inputs and outputs" meaning all the sensors hooked to the ECU will get logged for upto 5 minutes.(This should be ample time considering a dyno run might be 20 seconds or so) This compared to just wide band logging is in itself more usefull as I could analyze the entire range of sensors the ECU is using as opposed to the O2 sensor only.
So my Dilema is: IS IT WORTH 60-80 DOLLARS?
Santiago
01-06-04, 12:17 AM
#2
Haven't we ALL heard this
I would suggest get a Haltech. You can find a laptop on ebay that will suite your needs for 200 bucks. What the heck man. You are going all out.
Also, I thought you use a 5 volt input on those ems systems? 5 volt from the wideband.
Where did you get the 500 for a Techedge? Are you gonna have them build it?
James
Also, I thought you use a 5 volt input on those ems systems? 5 volt from the wideband.
Where did you get the 500 for a Techedge? Are you gonna have them build it?
James
01-06-04, 01:36 AM
#3
What R U thinking self?
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Your best bet is to go with the inovative WB02. It has 4! Analog data outputs it can log for 44 Mins not including logging the WB itself.
Couple things though:
You have to buy the RPM log adapter to log the RPM's with the rest of the logging, to me it is pointless for tuning purposes to guess with trail and error on the RPM your at while tuning, it is critical to buy this add on to the system for $89
Also, any WBo2 Kit running the lesser priced Bosch sensor will need a custom heatsink installed for an accurate and safe reading off of a rotary turbo, the fact is the rotary exhaust just gets to hot for these sensors to handle on there own. Unless you don't have a cat and never plan to have a cat then you can mount it WAY down further in the exhaust.
Okay, that being said you can now log A/F ratio, and log it based on RPM's ... now it's time for the real fun! Grab 2 of those analog leads and lets log them also
Hook up one to the 0-5 volt sensor on the boost pressure sensor, and calibrate it.
Now hook the other up to the 0-5V TPS sensor and log that **** also! Now we are talking:
Logging A/F ratio, Throttle position, Boost pressure, all on an RPM curve! and you can control your analog O2 sensor with the same unit. That is just golden! And you can log all this for 44 mins at a time, or in real time with a laptop... exportable to its own software, or spreadsheets. That to me is better than a 100k dyno machine (for tuning) Dyno's are just not realistic when it comes to flow, most people dyno with the hood up, ice in the IC, and a big *** fan running at a constant speed. This is not tuning the car the way it will be driven; Hood down, high speed runs with varying amounts of incoming air. That beats the dyno for tuning, just the dyno gives you those #'s everyone gets a hard-on for. Plus it does not compensate for wind resistance .. thet creates more boost .. cause it creates load.
Can't beat that .. I've done alot of WBo2 research and this is the route I chose.
Ohh, as for the original question; I spend $80 on beer and smokes in a week ... hell ya spend the extra. And still go with the inovative
-Robert
Couple things though:
You have to buy the RPM log adapter to log the RPM's with the rest of the logging, to me it is pointless for tuning purposes to guess with trail and error on the RPM your at while tuning, it is critical to buy this add on to the system for $89
Also, any WBo2 Kit running the lesser priced Bosch sensor will need a custom heatsink installed for an accurate and safe reading off of a rotary turbo, the fact is the rotary exhaust just gets to hot for these sensors to handle on there own. Unless you don't have a cat and never plan to have a cat then you can mount it WAY down further in the exhaust.
Okay, that being said you can now log A/F ratio, and log it based on RPM's ... now it's time for the real fun! Grab 2 of those analog leads and lets log them also
Hook up one to the 0-5 volt sensor on the boost pressure sensor, and calibrate it.
Now hook the other up to the 0-5V TPS sensor and log that **** also! Now we are talking:
Logging A/F ratio, Throttle position, Boost pressure, all on an RPM curve! and you can control your analog O2 sensor with the same unit. That is just golden! And you can log all this for 44 mins at a time, or in real time with a laptop... exportable to its own software, or spreadsheets. That to me is better than a 100k dyno machine (for tuning) Dyno's are just not realistic when it comes to flow, most people dyno with the hood up, ice in the IC, and a big *** fan running at a constant speed. This is not tuning the car the way it will be driven; Hood down, high speed runs with varying amounts of incoming air. That beats the dyno for tuning, just the dyno gives you those #'s everyone gets a hard-on for. Plus it does not compensate for wind resistance .. thet creates more boost .. cause it creates load.
Can't beat that .. I've done alot of WBo2 research and this is the route I chose.
Ohh, as for the original question; I spend $80 on beer and smokes in a week ... hell ya spend the extra. And still go with the inovative
-Robert
Last edited by Rpeck; 01-06-04 at 01:49 AM.
01-06-04, 10:52 AM
#5
Originally posted by Wankel7
I would suggest get a Haltech. You can find a laptop on ebay that will suite your needs for 200 bucks. What the heck man. You are going all out.
Also, I thought you use a 5 volt input on those ems systems? 5 volt from the wideband.
Where did you get the 500 for a Techedge? Are you gonna have them build it?
James
I would suggest get a Haltech. You can find a laptop on ebay that will suite your needs for 200 bucks. What the heck man. You are going all out.
Also, I thought you use a 5 volt input on those ems systems? 5 volt from the wideband.
Where did you get the 500 for a Techedge? Are you gonna have them build it?
James
I evaluated it on my own and descided not to. Its not because of the money its because of what I will get from the microtech over the Haltech. I am going all out with the microtech. I will be buying an LTX system which uses aftermarket coils so I can get rid of the stock ones as they are almost as old as some of the younger members on here.
I am getting the hand controller, laptop adapter(I will still be buying a laptop some time in the future but the hand controller will do for the first couple of weeks or months), an extra harness and I may get the 3 bar map sensor but that is still in there air as I don't know if the 13B can handle 30 PSI 
And I inputed 500 smackers for the Tech Edge because I am evaluating what I get for the same thing. The others dont come dissasembled so it isn't a valid comparison. The other ones would just drop in with a couple of connections or a bung instalation. Besides I don't trust myself with a solder gun I wouldn't want to destroy it. And in any case it would still be around the same price un-built as the other units are built.
I didn't get what your talking about the 5V imput???
sorry maybe its just my noob ****.
01-06-04, 10:54 AM
#6
Originally posted by Josepi
uhhh the LT8 can datalog...
If one of those wideband units has an accurate narrowband output 1v range there's no reason for the 12.
uhhh the LT8 can datalog...
If one of those wideband units has an accurate narrowband output 1v range there's no reason for the 12.
EDIT never mind I am the blindest **** in the worl. lol Ok well now this throws another thing into the mix for my descission.
01-06-04, 11:04 AM
#7
What R U thinking self?
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Originally posted by Josepi
If one of those wideband units has an accurate narrowband output 1v range there's no reason for the 12.
If one of those wideband units has an accurate narrowband output 1v range there's no reason for the 12.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/faq.php
Last edited by Rpeck; 01-06-04 at 11:06 AM.
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01-06-04, 12:13 PM
#8
Originally posted by Rpeck
Your best bet is to go with the inovative WB02. It has 4! Analog data outputs it can log for 44 Mins not including logging the WB itself.
Couple things though:
You have to buy the RPM log adapter to log the RPM's with the rest of the logging, to me it is pointless for tuning purposes to guess with trail and error on the RPM your at while tuning, it is critical to buy this add on to the system for $89
Also, any WBo2 Kit running the lesser priced Bosch sensor will need a custom heatsink installed for an accurate and safe reading off of a rotary turbo, the fact is the rotary exhaust just gets to hot for these sensors to handle on there own. Unless you don't have a cat and never plan to have a cat then you can mount it WAY down further in the exhaust.
Okay, that being said you can now log A/F ratio, and log it based on RPM's ... now it's time for the real fun! Grab 2 of those analog leads and lets log them also
Hook up one to the 0-5 volt sensor on the boost pressure sensor, and calibrate it.
Now hook the other up to the 0-5V TPS sensor and log that **** also! Now we are talking:
Logging A/F ratio, Throttle position, Boost pressure, all on an RPM curve! and you can control your analog O2 sensor with the same unit. That is just golden! And you can log all this for 44 mins at a time, or in real time with a laptop... exportable to its own software, or spreadsheets. That to me is better than a 100k dyno machine (for tuning) Dyno's are just not realistic when it comes to flow, most people dyno with the hood up, ice in the IC, and a big *** fan running at a constant speed. This is not tuning the car the way it will be driven; Hood down, high speed runs with varying amounts of incoming air. That beats the dyno for tuning, just the dyno gives you those #'s everyone gets a hard-on for. Plus it does not compensate for wind resistance .. thet creates more boost .. cause it creates load.
Can't beat that .. I've done alot of WBo2 research and this is the route I chose.
Ohh, as for the original question; I spend $80 on beer and smokes in a week ... hell ya spend the extra. And still go with the inovative
-Robert
Your best bet is to go with the inovative WB02. It has 4! Analog data outputs it can log for 44 Mins not including logging the WB itself.
Couple things though:
You have to buy the RPM log adapter to log the RPM's with the rest of the logging, to me it is pointless for tuning purposes to guess with trail and error on the RPM your at while tuning, it is critical to buy this add on to the system for $89
Also, any WBo2 Kit running the lesser priced Bosch sensor will need a custom heatsink installed for an accurate and safe reading off of a rotary turbo, the fact is the rotary exhaust just gets to hot for these sensors to handle on there own. Unless you don't have a cat and never plan to have a cat then you can mount it WAY down further in the exhaust.
Okay, that being said you can now log A/F ratio, and log it based on RPM's ... now it's time for the real fun! Grab 2 of those analog leads and lets log them also
Hook up one to the 0-5 volt sensor on the boost pressure sensor, and calibrate it.
Now hook the other up to the 0-5V TPS sensor and log that **** also! Now we are talking:
Logging A/F ratio, Throttle position, Boost pressure, all on an RPM curve! and you can control your analog O2 sensor with the same unit. That is just golden! And you can log all this for 44 mins at a time, or in real time with a laptop... exportable to its own software, or spreadsheets. That to me is better than a 100k dyno machine (for tuning) Dyno's are just not realistic when it comes to flow, most people dyno with the hood up, ice in the IC, and a big *** fan running at a constant speed. This is not tuning the car the way it will be driven; Hood down, high speed runs with varying amounts of incoming air. That beats the dyno for tuning, just the dyno gives you those #'s everyone gets a hard-on for. Plus it does not compensate for wind resistance .. thet creates more boost .. cause it creates load.
Can't beat that .. I've done alot of WBo2 research and this is the route I chose.
Ohh, as for the original question; I spend $80 on beer and smokes in a week ... hell ya spend the extra. And still go with the inovative
-Robert
Ok to take on your first point. I don't think I would need 44 minutes of data would I? I mean I don't think I have enough space to even drive hard for that long. That being said I will have a laptop by the time I start tunning. Does the microtech have the capacity to do logging directly onto the laptop to get around the 5 minute limit without the laptop? if it does then I see no need for the innovative wideband kit. You mentioned that that kit has 4 outputs it can monitor in addition of the O2 sensor itself BUT if I have logging capabilities for "all inputs and outputs" to the ECU it should take care of any and all sensors hooked up which is what you were talking about right? The only advantage I see to the innovative kit is with the addition of that rpm sensor you can see all the info against the rpms they were at right? But I would think that the LTX knows the RPM doesn't it? wouldn't that get logged along with the sensors' readings too?
01-06-04, 12:23 PM
#9
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You will need 44 Mins of logging if you cannot log to a laptop in real time. Atleast for the initial setup. It does not over right the old logs.. it contunues to log up to 44 mins and keeps the old ones until it is full and you clear it, you can start and stop the logging at will. My first dyno session after building my car I spent 6 Hrs on the dyno before I was mildly happy, then I went back for day 2 a couple of weeks later. (thus why I now got a WBo2, dyno was costing me a fortune! ) I mean 5 mins of logging is 3-4 pulls tops. I guess you can just reset it and go again ... assuming you have a laptop.
I am not sure what all the others log .. i would have to assume a stand alone EMS will log the RPM curve.
I don't run a stand alone EMS so i cannot really tell you what all gets logged. But you cannot beat the inovative for getting as close to dyno type logs as a dyno. properly setup you will get 44 mins of;
A/F Ratio
Throttle postion
Boost level & curve
RPM curve
And there is an option for temp sensor, but I am not sure *yet* if that will work with our cars. I will know by this weekend.
By all means if the standalone offers all that go with it, but if someone is just looking for WBo2 .. you can't beat the inovative. And it pays for itself in less than 1 day of what dyno tuning costs around here. And IMO is a more accurate setup of real driving.
-Robert
I am not sure what all the others log .. i would have to assume a stand alone EMS will log the RPM curve.
I don't run a stand alone EMS so i cannot really tell you what all gets logged. But you cannot beat the inovative for getting as close to dyno type logs as a dyno. properly setup you will get 44 mins of;
A/F Ratio
Throttle postion
Boost level & curve
RPM curve
And there is an option for temp sensor, but I am not sure *yet* if that will work with our cars. I will know by this weekend.
By all means if the standalone offers all that go with it, but if someone is just looking for WBo2 .. you can't beat the inovative. And it pays for itself in less than 1 day of what dyno tuning costs around here. And IMO is a more accurate setup of real driving.
-Robert
01-06-04, 12:30 PM
#10
What R U thinking self?
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Just for some idea of how I am doign this;
My setup is S-AFC wired to the boost sensor.
Dual stage Boost controler.
Stage 1 set at 8-9 PSI ... S-AFC set to run 'low' setting based on voltage off the boost sensor (that can be logged) perfect fuel ratio for stage 1 of my boost controller. My ECU is modified to adjust the timing curve up to 15 PSI.
Stage 2 of my S-AFc 'Hi' set to kick in when my boost sensor reads voltage just above stage 1 on my boost controller (this can not be achieved with my ported WG until I flip the switch to stage 2 on the boost controler) now My fuel is setup for up to 13-14 PSI with the automatic change over based on boost level. So I do not run to rich at the low setting, and I am dialed in perfect at the high setting also.
this all done with a ~$250 S-AFC .. with the aid of a Wbo2 and running the AFC off the boost sensor instead of the TPS.
P.S. don't try this at home, I am merely a pure genius
I will not have all teh results of this until after this weekend, but in theroy it should be just right.
-Robert
My setup is S-AFC wired to the boost sensor.
Dual stage Boost controler.
Stage 1 set at 8-9 PSI ... S-AFC set to run 'low' setting based on voltage off the boost sensor (that can be logged) perfect fuel ratio for stage 1 of my boost controller. My ECU is modified to adjust the timing curve up to 15 PSI.
Stage 2 of my S-AFc 'Hi' set to kick in when my boost sensor reads voltage just above stage 1 on my boost controller (this can not be achieved with my ported WG until I flip the switch to stage 2 on the boost controler) now My fuel is setup for up to 13-14 PSI with the automatic change over based on boost level. So I do not run to rich at the low setting, and I am dialed in perfect at the high setting also.
this all done with a ~$250 S-AFC .. with the aid of a Wbo2 and running the AFC off the boost sensor instead of the TPS.
P.S. don't try this at home, I am merely a pure genius
I will not have all teh results of this until after this weekend, but in theroy it should be just right.
-Robert
Last edited by Rpeck; 01-06-04 at 12:34 PM.
01-06-04, 12:41 PM
#11
Originally posted by Rpeck
Just for some idea of how I am doign this;
P.S. don't try this at home, I am merely a pure genius
-Robert
Just for some idea of how I am doign this;
P.S. don't try this at home, I am merely a pure genius
-Robert
Santiago
PS- I just want to say that this forum is showing some true color and reminding me of what it was when and before I showed up.(usefull) Thanks guys. Any more info/input or oppinions are greatfully welcome.
01-06-04, 03:28 PM
#12
I'm not going to weigh in on the EMS debate, since there are just too many issues to debate. We all chose our systems for various reasons, and all are capable of running our cars fairly well.
But Cheers! posted this info on the CDN forum about the WB's, since a few of us are considering buying a unit, and we are still debating TechEdge, Innovative, PLX and FJO (big $$$) etc.:
the accuracy of any wideband meter/sensor is directly related to teh sensor itself. There are two wideband oxygen sensors availble for commerical purpose. We are not talking about lab grade stuff here.
The two are either NTK L series (L1H1 and L2H2) sensor, and the Bosch LSU series. Both of which are 5 wire, pump cell sensors.
there is a lot of information from tech edge http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbntk.htm
or just serach at the NTK or Bosch sites for their product spec sheets.
I would have to say yes, the older versions of the techedge unit was not very accurate, because it was not able to control the temperature of the sensor correctly. The sensors are very temperature dependant, thus they must operate in a narrow operating range.
The current version 2.0 of the tech edge wideband sensor is digitally controlled, the temperature is control via a PID control system which is the best way of controlling any system. With the FJO i'm not sure, i can not say what they are using since i have not taken apart a unit, and they do not have the schematics for the public.
I like the techedge, because i know what is going on, i looked at teh schematics, i looked at the design, i assembled it. I know what i'm getting, not a black box that I assume should work. I do not have access to a lab grade oxygen sensor to compare the FJO system, means i do not trust it 100%, someone compared the tech edge unit (Version 1.0) and it was accurate. With the improvement of the version2.0 with the ability to cotnrol the sensor temp makes it even better.
ok i just looked at the FJO website,
here are their specs:
The FJO Wide Band Oxygen Sensor Controller utilizes a 5 wire oxygen sensor with an integrated 2 wire calibration resistor to obtain accurate air/fuel mixture readings from 10:1 to 20:1 AFR. The controller features both an analog and a digital output which may be connected to the 341B Engine Management System, AFR Display, to the serial port of any laptop computer or PDA, or an ECU with a 0~5V input. Following the practice of all other FJO products, the controller is designed with a rugged chassis and features environmentally sealed Weather-Pack connectors.
Features:
- sensing range: 10:1 to 20:1 AFR (gasoline)
- accuracy: better than 0.1 AFR over the range 10.5:1 to 15.5:1
- dimensions: 139 mm x 61 mm x 32 mm
- weight: 450 g
- power: 12 volts DC
- auxiliary analog input: 0-5 volts (high impedance) [CWC0002 only]
- RPM input: 10,000 rpm maximum (using optional FJO RPM pickup) [CWC0002 only]
- analog output: 0-5 volt high impedance
- digital output: RS232C at 19200 baud
- temperature range: -40 to +85 °C ambient
Note: the WBO2 Controller requires a precision 5-wire oxygen sensor (SO20001 / NTK L1H1 / HONDA 36531-P07-003) for operation.
I have a feeling it is based of the original DIY wideband O2 sensor design that was posted online for free, before even techedge came along and made it a kit.
All of their specs are the same as tech edge's specs, including the digital output RS232 which techedge also uses on their older 1.5 kit. The new 2.0 kit doesn't even do output anymore since the internal resolution it can capture at is greater then the resoltion of the output.
Techedge uses the NTK sensor
SO20001 / NTK L1H1 / HONDA 36531-P07-003) for operation
The NTK sensor is more accurate then the Bosch LSU sensor. But the NTK sensor is slower to respond to changes in AFR compared to the Bosch unit.
I have picked the techedge because I have followed their email list for 3 years. They stand behind what they have and they are not afraid to share info on it either. Tech support is also excellent. I think the biggest turn off is people having to assmeble the kit themsevles, let me tell you, if you have never assmebled any delicate electronics you are not going to be able to assmeble the kit. Techedge also has the fully assembled kit, but that is a lot higher in $
But Cheers! posted this info on the CDN forum about the WB's, since a few of us are considering buying a unit, and we are still debating TechEdge, Innovative, PLX and FJO (big $$$) etc.:
the accuracy of any wideband meter/sensor is directly related to teh sensor itself. There are two wideband oxygen sensors availble for commerical purpose. We are not talking about lab grade stuff here.
The two are either NTK L series (L1H1 and L2H2) sensor, and the Bosch LSU series. Both of which are 5 wire, pump cell sensors.
there is a lot of information from tech edge http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbntk.htm
or just serach at the NTK or Bosch sites for their product spec sheets.
I would have to say yes, the older versions of the techedge unit was not very accurate, because it was not able to control the temperature of the sensor correctly. The sensors are very temperature dependant, thus they must operate in a narrow operating range.
The current version 2.0 of the tech edge wideband sensor is digitally controlled, the temperature is control via a PID control system which is the best way of controlling any system. With the FJO i'm not sure, i can not say what they are using since i have not taken apart a unit, and they do not have the schematics for the public.
I like the techedge, because i know what is going on, i looked at teh schematics, i looked at the design, i assembled it. I know what i'm getting, not a black box that I assume should work. I do not have access to a lab grade oxygen sensor to compare the FJO system, means i do not trust it 100%, someone compared the tech edge unit (Version 1.0) and it was accurate. With the improvement of the version2.0 with the ability to cotnrol the sensor temp makes it even better.
ok i just looked at the FJO website,
here are their specs:
The FJO Wide Band Oxygen Sensor Controller utilizes a 5 wire oxygen sensor with an integrated 2 wire calibration resistor to obtain accurate air/fuel mixture readings from 10:1 to 20:1 AFR. The controller features both an analog and a digital output which may be connected to the 341B Engine Management System, AFR Display, to the serial port of any laptop computer or PDA, or an ECU with a 0~5V input. Following the practice of all other FJO products, the controller is designed with a rugged chassis and features environmentally sealed Weather-Pack connectors.
Features:
- sensing range: 10:1 to 20:1 AFR (gasoline)
- accuracy: better than 0.1 AFR over the range 10.5:1 to 15.5:1
- dimensions: 139 mm x 61 mm x 32 mm
- weight: 450 g
- power: 12 volts DC
- auxiliary analog input: 0-5 volts (high impedance) [CWC0002 only]
- RPM input: 10,000 rpm maximum (using optional FJO RPM pickup) [CWC0002 only]
- analog output: 0-5 volt high impedance
- digital output: RS232C at 19200 baud
- temperature range: -40 to +85 °C ambient
Note: the WBO2 Controller requires a precision 5-wire oxygen sensor (SO20001 / NTK L1H1 / HONDA 36531-P07-003) for operation.
I have a feeling it is based of the original DIY wideband O2 sensor design that was posted online for free, before even techedge came along and made it a kit.
All of their specs are the same as tech edge's specs, including the digital output RS232 which techedge also uses on their older 1.5 kit. The new 2.0 kit doesn't even do output anymore since the internal resolution it can capture at is greater then the resoltion of the output.
Techedge uses the NTK sensor
SO20001 / NTK L1H1 / HONDA 36531-P07-003) for operation
The NTK sensor is more accurate then the Bosch LSU sensor. But the NTK sensor is slower to respond to changes in AFR compared to the Bosch unit.
I have picked the techedge because I have followed their email list for 3 years. They stand behind what they have and they are not afraid to share info on it either. Tech support is also excellent. I think the biggest turn off is people having to assmeble the kit themsevles, let me tell you, if you have never assmebled any delicate electronics you are not going to be able to assmeble the kit. Techedge also has the fully assembled kit, but that is a lot higher in $
01-06-04, 04:45 PM
#13
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The techedge has a version for use with the Bosch and the NTK sensor, the problem being the NTK is ALOT more expensive, and harder to get your hands on. I don't see any problems with the techedge, infact i almost bought one of there units. But I did not want to build the unit myself, and the price gets up there for a prebuilt unit. Also the techedge at this time does not do RPM based logging, nor have memory to hold logs, it is direct logging or nothing. Considering it costs more, and has less features than the inovative, and you have to wait for it to get here from Australia the choice to me was clear.
Also after talking with the Inovative support staff for about 20 minutes and reading there forum I was convinced they make a fine unit and know exactly what they are talking about. Also the inovative unit will clearly tell you where the sensor is out of it's proper heat range, and no longer give readings. Where as the TE unit will continue to give you readings even out of the proper heat range for the unit. You have to pay attention to the warning lights to know it has gone out of range, it will continue to give you inacturate numbers. The inovative unit also have a exhaust clip (for the O2)and a timing light style clip for RPM readout, and can be battery operted or plugged into the cigarette lighter. Making it VERY portable to hookup to any vehilce in a matter of seconds to run testing on. All of this at a lesser price. You decide.
The Inovative has more features at a little bit lesser price (than the prebuilt TE units) The inovative software have a check box for "rotary" the programs all our parameters Ect automatically, 44 mins of logging on up to 6 parameters. . ...The TE unit has nothing that the inovative system does not, where as the inovative system has alot the TE system does not.
-Robert
Also after talking with the Inovative support staff for about 20 minutes and reading there forum I was convinced they make a fine unit and know exactly what they are talking about. Also the inovative unit will clearly tell you where the sensor is out of it's proper heat range, and no longer give readings. Where as the TE unit will continue to give you readings even out of the proper heat range for the unit. You have to pay attention to the warning lights to know it has gone out of range, it will continue to give you inacturate numbers. The inovative unit also have a exhaust clip (for the O2)and a timing light style clip for RPM readout, and can be battery operted or plugged into the cigarette lighter. Making it VERY portable to hookup to any vehilce in a matter of seconds to run testing on. All of this at a lesser price. You decide.
The Inovative has more features at a little bit lesser price (than the prebuilt TE units) The inovative software have a check box for "rotary" the programs all our parameters Ect automatically, 44 mins of logging on up to 6 parameters. . ...The TE unit has nothing that the inovative system does not, where as the inovative system has alot the TE system does not.
-Robert
Last edited by Rpeck; 01-06-04 at 04:51 PM.
01-06-04, 05:22 PM
#14
Well I pretty much descided that the LTX12 is a better option for me for the money. I will get everything in one unit and will not have to build the controler for the sensor. As long as the dealer tells me what I want to hear about logging and other stuff I am pretty much going with the LTX12.
Santiago
Santiago
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