Emery DeWitt

I just spent $455 at the dealer to get my exhaust leak repaired (88 n/a vert). Most of it was labor, but the leak wasn't in the exhaust system - it was a missing plug, p/n 9930-52-800. I've attached a picture from the parts fiche (page 1-F3) that shows the plug, kind of.

The writeup on the bill says, "Removed the exhaust manifold to see if the gasket was leaking or the manifold was cracked. Found an exhaust plug on the block out due to the hole it fits in bigger than it should be for some reason. The new plug doesn't fit tightly. Peened out the plug and the outer edge of the block. Also used high temperature epoxy. No guarantee that it will stay in."

I'm pretty sure this engine hasn't been apart. It has 76,000 miles and runs great. And, I think they really did find the problem - it's quieter, and no more fumes in the cockpit.

But WTF happened to the original plug, and the hole it was in???

TIA,
Emery

Emery DeWitt

bump

Emery DeWitt

bump

Fitness Stain

that looks like a pic of the housing....

did they remove the engine?

Zach McAfee

I'll have to look at one of my spares. Never heard of it. The only exhaust ports I know of (besides THE exhaust port) would be for exhaust gas recirculation.
I'll get back to you, unless someone beats me to it.

Mr. Gadget

This looks wierd, what year is the motor?

Emery DeWitt

As far as I know, the motor is original (1988). I'm sure they didn't R&R the motor. I can see clearly from the top that the exhaust manifold has been removed and cleaned, and there's clearly a new gasket at the downpipe. My guess is they did everything from underneath on a lift.

BTW, the other option they gave was to remove the engine and split the cases - not worth it.

From the parts fiche, it looks like the plug goes on the direct underside of that part of the housing.

I haven't been underneath, and won't have time for a couple of days, but it should be easy to see where they peened the edges of the housing over the plug.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Your first mistake was going to a dealer.

The only thing I can think of would be the weird diffuser/fin thing on the N/A exhaust ports.

I'm kinda stumped. Look at the FSM for a 88 and take a look at the exahust segment and parts. As far as I know there should be any plug. Maybe they messed with the 5/6th ports stuff? Just a guess.

I'm not at home so I can't look at the FSM myself.

Emery DeWitt

Yeah, if anybody can recommend a rotary expert in the Lancaster, PA area, let me know!! I basically used the dealer because they at least had the guy that "used to work on those".

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

Do what I did. Learn to do it yourself.

We have an engine which has been out of production for almost 10 years.
The mechanics at dealerships are usually either geniuses or complete idiots(usually last one).

Exhaust is not hard to work on. I have redone every gasket and bolt on my exhaust except the manifold gasket. The one that likes to go is the one from Manifold to downpipe(very hot and Backpressure).

Just get a lot of PB Blaster to get the rusted old bolts loose.

Emery DeWitt

Since this is my thread... I'm gonna try to include the graphic in a message.

Mr. Gadget

Red X bud

Emery DeWitt

Yeh, I know, sucks. I'm trying to get the permissions problem worked out...

Emery DeWitt

Emery DeWitt

dammit!

88IntegraLS

9930-52-800 is a water jacket freeze plug or casting plug in the center housing facing the exhaust manifold but has nothing to do with the exhaust system. Something that thin would melt from exhaust heat that close to the combustion chamber if it really were sealing off exhaust gasses.

Maybe they found a coolant leak at the freeze plug and decided to replace it, even though they were supposed to be fixing a leaking exhaust manifold and / or gasket. Epoxy would burn instantly if it were used to attach a plug in an exhaust manifold.

If they did in fact fix your exhaust leak then you didn't get ripped, other than letting them do something to your car which you did not request. And besides, you could have fixed it yourself in a day for $30 in gaskets. Kind of reminds me of changing a clutch in a Honda: you can spend $140 for parts and 10 hours of your own time or spend $1000 at a shop. I'll make the $86 an hour for doing my own repairs! \

*edit* I just forgot about the EGR passage going through the center housing (the EGR valve is mounted on the top of the center housing) . . . it is possible that that plug seals off the EGR supply path to the valve. That would have been tricky to diagnose, considering that the rat's nest, intake manifold and fuel rails are right over that area.

Emery DeWitt

Your edited addition sounds like a reasonable diagnosis - they were quite sure that the exhaust leak was coming from that hole. I suppose that the exhaust heat could have eventually destroyed the plug, but I don't think it would have distorted the hole so much that a new plug wouldn't fit. As you say, it's hard to reach - they didn't find it until after they had pulled the manifold.

Bruce

KD Rotary, outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 610-433-2033 shop, 610-504-7964 mobile, 610-508-2905 pager, 610-530-8792 fax. Dave and Kim.

Not sure if this helps got it off an old vendors list, also not sure if they are very far away from you, but hope this helps

Emery DeWitt

Found 'em on Google:

http://www.kdrotary.com/

Looks like a neat company. Their price lists shows both parts and labor to install various upgrades.

Mapquest puts it at 89.38 miles door-to-door from my house. Thanks for the tip!

Emery DeWitt

Hey look, a friend helped me get the second try to show the graphic!

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Yes, that same plug came out of my old '86 NA engine.

I did not realize it was out, but the guy I sold the car too found the plug sitting on the manifold when he took the engine out!

It does plug the EGR passage in that housing.

ScrapFC

iTrader: (5)

Blue TII is almost right. I found the plug after I'd been running the motor for a while. It does appear to be an EGR passage plug. It was kind of a bitch to fix, since I had to pull and then reinstall the exhaust manifold and didn't feel like pulling the motor to do it. (Pretty cramped in there)
I was getting excessive noise and nasty exhaust odors in the cabin until I fixed the plug. Just plucked it off the exhaust manifold (It had wedged between the manifold and the housing) Shoved it back in and peened the plug to make it a tight fit. It's been there ever since.

Edit: I just reread your post. They charged you $455 to fix that? That's robbery!! It only took me about 4 hours to fix and most of that was struggling to get the damned manifold and heat shield back in place!

Emery DeWitt

Yep - $379 of the bill was labor. The rest was the plug ($2.75) and various gaskets, lock washers and nuts.

My symptoms were identical to yours, and ya know, it was worth $455 to me to have it fixed! I'm really busy right now, and realistically, the car would have been down for a month while I was trying to fix it myself.

Since the plug was totally gone, I might not have even identified the problem. As it was, they kept it a week due to having to order the plug. I just hope this one stays put!

I was ruminating about all this over the weekend - I wonder if my EGR valve is plugged, creating excessive back pressure behind the plug. How do you check it?

Emery DeWitt

bump

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I stand corrected

How do you like being reffered to as "the guy...", D.T.

I'm so nice


So how is the cluch ScrappyFC? (just trying to redeem myself by proving I can be quasi useful...)

EDIT-
Hmm over $300 in labor and they couldn't guarantee it wasn't going to pop back out. Makes me look like a nice guy...