Electric fan
08-20-02, 01:55 PM
#1
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Electric fan
Has any one out there removed their clutch fan and installed an electric fan? If so I need some feedback please (size? stock shroud or not?). My fan clutch has seen better days and I don’t want to spend $200 on a new one. I don’t want to use a toggle switch I would prefer to use a temp. switch to kick the fan on. Also have it kick in when the A/C is turned on. I plan on doing this tonight.
Warren
Warren
08-20-02, 02:03 PM
#2
A lot of us run fans...I recommend that you KEEP the stock fan shrouds. I run a 16 inch on the inside of the engine bay, strapped to the radiator, and two 8 inch fans attached to the AC condensor. Probably a little overkill, but it stays VERY cold. I use a toggle switch, but the temp switch is a better idea. Those are easy to get, i have 2 of them here right now, just havent put them in. As for a "default" on when the A/C is turned on, that cold be a little more tricky.
I can furnish pics of my install if need be.
And you have a REALLY NICE looking FC!!
Rat
I can furnish pics of my install if need be.
And you have a REALLY NICE looking FC!!
Rat
08-20-02, 02:10 PM
#3
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Rat,
That would be great send them to me! What name brand fan did you use? I'm prob. gonna just go to a local auto parts store to pick one up.
Thanks
Warren
That would be great send them to me! What name brand fan did you use? I'm prob. gonna just go to a local auto parts store to pick one up.
Thanks
Warren
08-20-02, 02:17 PM
#4
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
First off, why are you saying your stock clutch driven fan is shot? They're actually VERY reliable, and only become a problem when the clutch sticks, which is quite uncommon.
Really, the only reason to ditch the clutch fan is aesthetics and ease of maintenance. The clutch fan moves a LOT of air, and an electric fan will be hard pressed to keep up - you have to have a serious electric fan to keep up.
Most parts store fans aren't going to cut it either, BTW.
Since you have a '90 car, you're cursed with the "idiot light' water temp gauge. The needle stays in the middle for a wide range of temperatures, and only starts moving into the upper range when the car is already overheating. If you're going to be doing mods to you cooling system, you need a real temp gauge. I recommend the Greddy water temp gauge - you can get 'em for just over $100 for the 52mm version.
Anyhow, take your time and be careful when mucking with the cooling system - Mazda did a great job engineering it, and I've seen many people "improve" it only to have a car overheat and die.
Dale
Really, the only reason to ditch the clutch fan is aesthetics and ease of maintenance. The clutch fan moves a LOT of air, and an electric fan will be hard pressed to keep up - you have to have a serious electric fan to keep up.
Most parts store fans aren't going to cut it either, BTW.
Since you have a '90 car, you're cursed with the "idiot light' water temp gauge. The needle stays in the middle for a wide range of temperatures, and only starts moving into the upper range when the car is already overheating. If you're going to be doing mods to you cooling system, you need a real temp gauge. I recommend the Greddy water temp gauge - you can get 'em for just over $100 for the 52mm version.
Anyhow, take your time and be careful when mucking with the cooling system - Mazda did a great job engineering it, and I've seen many people "improve" it only to have a car overheat and die.
Dale
08-20-02, 02:23 PM
#5
Originally posted by dcfc3s
First off, why are you saying your stock clutch driven fan is shot? They're actually VERY reliable, and only become a problem when the clutch sticks, which is quite uncommon.
Really, the only reason to ditch the clutch fan is aesthetics and ease of maintenance. The clutch fan moves a LOT of air, and an electric fan will be hard pressed to keep up - you have to have a serious electric fan to keep up.
Most parts store fans aren't going to cut it either, BTW.
Dale
First off, why are you saying your stock clutch driven fan is shot? They're actually VERY reliable, and only become a problem when the clutch sticks, which is quite uncommon.
Really, the only reason to ditch the clutch fan is aesthetics and ease of maintenance. The clutch fan moves a LOT of air, and an electric fan will be hard pressed to keep up - you have to have a serious electric fan to keep up.
Most parts store fans aren't going to cut it either, BTW.
Dale
My stock fan quit, but the only way to tell, was to spin it a few times..It would start freewheeling after a few turns. And it wouldnt cool the motor. MOST parts store fans wont, but SOME will. Mine are auto parts fans, and my car doesnt move hardly above the "C" mark WITH the AC running, and on a 100 deg day. But I have the Modine radiator too. I know that my temp gage is good, (as good as one can be) since I tested it. I am NOT gonna pay 200 bills for an new clutch fan, so I just went e-fan.
Rat
08-20-02, 02:24 PM
#6
Opinions are like........
That car is sweet.
Lots of people here have removed the mech fan. The cheapest fix is to locate a used clutch if yours is not working.
The most important thing concerning the E-fan is that it will NOT fix cooling issues that you have. Make sure that the radiator/cap/hoses/belt/waterpump/thermostat are working properly.
If everything is working, you'll need a fan with decent CFM. The 16" permalcool & flexalite fans are good to start with.
Some fans come with the thermoswitch/relays/fuses and directions. Others need an install kit.
Use the search button up above for electric fan. The topic is brought up regularly since the beginning of this heat wave.
The permacool(19115) one is probably the best for the $$$$$. http://permacool.com/Catalog/Cat_page16.html
The flexalite(150) one comes with everything needed and is a little pricey. http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/blackmag.htm
These fans can be purchased at summitracing/jegs/and speed shops in your area. Generic low CFM fans from carparts stores usually do not move enough air.
http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/efan/efan.html
http://unorthodoxracing.com/projrx7.html
Lots of people here have removed the mech fan. The cheapest fix is to locate a used clutch if yours is not working.
The most important thing concerning the E-fan is that it will NOT fix cooling issues that you have. Make sure that the radiator/cap/hoses/belt/waterpump/thermostat are working properly.
If everything is working, you'll need a fan with decent CFM. The 16" permalcool & flexalite fans are good to start with.
Some fans come with the thermoswitch/relays/fuses and directions. Others need an install kit.
Use the search button up above for electric fan. The topic is brought up regularly since the beginning of this heat wave.
The permacool(19115) one is probably the best for the $$$$$. http://permacool.com/Catalog/Cat_page16.html
The flexalite(150) one comes with everything needed and is a little pricey. http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/blackmag.htm
These fans can be purchased at summitracing/jegs/and speed shops in your area. Generic low CFM fans from carparts stores usually do not move enough air.
http://rx7.voodoobox.net/howto/efan/efan.html
http://unorthodoxracing.com/projrx7.html
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08-20-02, 02:49 PM
#12
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
RUN, don't walk, away from the Permacool "finger chopper" fan. I've personally seen 3 of 'em fail - I used to think it was a good bang-for-the-buck fan, but it's way too unreliable. Pay cheap money, get cheap results.
To the original poster who has a bad fan - just get a used one. Hell, I threw out about 5 good clutch fans a while back - they're a dime a dozen. Also, to the original poster, you haven't said what the problem was with your car - is it overheating?
I forgot about the Black Magic - that's also a darn good e-fan.
J-rat, the main fan you have is a Derale-built fan, which is a top-quality unit. Also, check your battery wiring - your negative battery cable is running on top of your positive battery terminal, which is a REALLY bad thing - if the insulation rubs through, that's a fire waiting to happen. I would also upgrade them battery terminals - you have quite a few accessories, and it would be a cleaner install. Autozone has quick-release battery terminals for $4 or so that work great.
Dale
To the original poster who has a bad fan - just get a used one. Hell, I threw out about 5 good clutch fans a while back - they're a dime a dozen. Also, to the original poster, you haven't said what the problem was with your car - is it overheating?
I forgot about the Black Magic - that's also a darn good e-fan.
J-rat, the main fan you have is a Derale-built fan, which is a top-quality unit. Also, check your battery wiring - your negative battery cable is running on top of your positive battery terminal, which is a REALLY bad thing - if the insulation rubs through, that's a fire waiting to happen. I would also upgrade them battery terminals - you have quite a few accessories, and it would be a cleaner install. Autozone has quick-release battery terminals for $4 or so that work great.
Dale
08-20-02, 02:52 PM
#13
Originally posted by dcfc3s
RUN, don't walk, away from the Permacool "finger chopper" fan. I've personally seen 3 of 'em fail - I used to think it was a good bang-for-the-buck fan, but it's way too unreliable. Pay cheap money, get cheap results.
To the original poster who has a bad fan - just get a used one. Hell, I threw out about 5 good clutch fans a while back - they're a dime a dozen. Also, to the original poster, you haven't said what the problem was with your car - is it overheating?
I forgot about the Black Magic - that's also a darn good e-fan.
J-rat, the main fan you have is a Derale-built fan, which is a top-quality unit. Also, check your battery wiring - your negative battery cable is running on top of your positive battery terminal, which is a REALLY bad thing - if the insulation rubs through, that's a fire waiting to happen. I would also upgrade them battery terminals - you have quite a few accessories, and it would be a cleaner install. Autozone has quick-release battery terminals for $4 or so that work great.
Dale
RUN, don't walk, away from the Permacool "finger chopper" fan. I've personally seen 3 of 'em fail - I used to think it was a good bang-for-the-buck fan, but it's way too unreliable. Pay cheap money, get cheap results.
To the original poster who has a bad fan - just get a used one. Hell, I threw out about 5 good clutch fans a while back - they're a dime a dozen. Also, to the original poster, you haven't said what the problem was with your car - is it overheating?
I forgot about the Black Magic - that's also a darn good e-fan.
J-rat, the main fan you have is a Derale-built fan, which is a top-quality unit. Also, check your battery wiring - your negative battery cable is running on top of your positive battery terminal, which is a REALLY bad thing - if the insulation rubs through, that's a fire waiting to happen. I would also upgrade them battery terminals - you have quite a few accessories, and it would be a cleaner install. Autozone has quick-release battery terminals for $4 or so that work great.
Dale
Good looking out!
Rat
08-20-02, 03:03 PM
#14
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Warren, I've been using the black magic fan, and it's awesome!! It cools just fine, and I'm only using the shroud that comes with it. Just make sure that it is tight against the radiator, or it won't cool quite as well.
Just my $.02
Reese
Just my $.02
Reese
08-20-02, 03:24 PM
#15
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I have had absolutely NO problems with my PermaCool finger chopper, nor has anyone I know with them. In fact, I love my fan...dcfc3s is the only person Ive heard that had bad experiences with one.
I dont run a shroud on mine either...my own results have been great. I understand that a lot of people feel otherwise when it comes to shrouds and the say that with no shroud it wont cool properly, but MY OWN experience has been just the opposite. The fan cools GREAT without the shroud, much better than stock...and I live in one of the muggiest climates in the country, Alabama!
I dont run a shroud on mine either...my own results have been great. I understand that a lot of people feel otherwise when it comes to shrouds and the say that with no shroud it wont cool properly, but MY OWN experience has been just the opposite. The fan cools GREAT without the shroud, much better than stock...and I live in one of the muggiest climates in the country, Alabama!
08-20-02, 03:30 PM
#16
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
It may have just been a bad batch, but like I said I've known 3 of 'em just here in Pensacola that failed to the point of not moving at ALL, totally dead. They did seem to cool OK, but the cooling system is not something I try and save a few bucks on - spend the extra money for a quality fan. It doesn't take long for the car to overheat when that fan fails!
Dale
Dale
08-20-02, 03:35 PM
#17
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Originally posted by dcfc3s
It may have just been a bad batch, but like I said I've known 3 of 'em just here in Pensacola that failed to the point of not moving at ALL, totally dead. They did seem to cool OK, but the cooling system is not something I try and save a few bucks on - spend the extra money for a quality fan. It doesn't take long for the car to overheat when that fan fails!
Dale
It may have just been a bad batch, but like I said I've known 3 of 'em just here in Pensacola that failed to the point of not moving at ALL, totally dead. They did seem to cool OK, but the cooling system is not something I try and save a few bucks on - spend the extra money for a quality fan. It doesn't take long for the car to overheat when that fan fails!
Dale
08-20-02, 03:45 PM
#18
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Dale,
My problem is when I'm doing interstate driving @ 80-90 mph. the temp starts to rise. So what I have been doing when it rises is slide the thermostat to hot and push the fresh-air button and turn the A/C off. Then the temp. drops to normal (and it does it as fast as I said it). Now I can drive around town all day long with the A/C on and it never gets above half way.
One of the reasons I think the clutch is going bad is the clutch wiggles if you grab the fan blade. Also from a dead stop if I take off fast it makes a noise, only in the high end of the RPM's 5,000 + (I'm assume that's the clutch). I do have the double belt pully on the Alt. So I know its not the belts.
Now yesterday I had to put a new water pump on (seal was leaking through the hole) and I thought that might of solved my problem but that’s when I noticed that the fan blade wiggled. Today it still does the same thing as before.
I own five RX-7's. Three of them are parts cars. Believe me I would of used one of the clutches but for some reason on the 90 model has a bigger shaft on the water pump and all my other cars (86-88) have smaller shafts. So then the fan clutch has a smaller hole and will not slide over the shaft and bolt up. THAT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,
Warren
My problem is when I'm doing interstate driving @ 80-90 mph. the temp starts to rise. So what I have been doing when it rises is slide the thermostat to hot and push the fresh-air button and turn the A/C off. Then the temp. drops to normal (and it does it as fast as I said it). Now I can drive around town all day long with the A/C on and it never gets above half way.
One of the reasons I think the clutch is going bad is the clutch wiggles if you grab the fan blade. Also from a dead stop if I take off fast it makes a noise, only in the high end of the RPM's 5,000 + (I'm assume that's the clutch). I do have the double belt pully on the Alt. So I know its not the belts.
Now yesterday I had to put a new water pump on (seal was leaking through the hole) and I thought that might of solved my problem but that’s when I noticed that the fan blade wiggled. Today it still does the same thing as before.
I own five RX-7's. Three of them are parts cars. Believe me I would of used one of the clutches but for some reason on the 90 model has a bigger shaft on the water pump and all my other cars (86-88) have smaller shafts. So then the fan clutch has a smaller hole and will not slide over the shaft and bolt up. THAT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks,
Warren
Last edited by RotaryForce13B; 08-20-02 at 03:57 PM.
08-20-02, 03:59 PM
#20
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Originally posted by BoostedRotors
I have had absolutely NO problems with my PermaCool finger chopper, nor has anyone I know with them. In fact, I love my fan...dcfc3s is the only person Ive heard that had bad experiences with one.
I dont run a shroud on mine either...my own results have been great. I understand that a lot of people feel otherwise when it comes to shrouds and the say that with no shroud it wont cool properly, but MY OWN experience has been just the opposite. The fan cools GREAT without the shroud, much better than stock...and I live in one of the muggiest climates in the country, Alabama!
I have had absolutely NO problems with my PermaCool finger chopper, nor has anyone I know with them. In fact, I love my fan...dcfc3s is the only person Ive heard that had bad experiences with one.
I dont run a shroud on mine either...my own results have been great. I understand that a lot of people feel otherwise when it comes to shrouds and the say that with no shroud it wont cool properly, but MY OWN experience has been just the opposite. The fan cools GREAT without the shroud, much better than stock...and I live in one of the muggiest climates in the country, Alabama!
08-20-02, 04:04 PM
#21
Opinions are like........
I'd be lying if I said "insert brand name here_____fan motors never burn out". I had flexalites/permacools/hayden/derale/spals/Ford/GM/Chrysler/Toy/Nis/Hon/........fail. Doesn't mean than there all bad. Nothing electrical is made to last forever. I haven't seen any one brand fail more so than any other.
If you had 3 fail, I would have sent them all back to permacool for an explanation. I have also noticed that some different brands use the same motors/fan blades/hardware kits etc. Actually, I should be honest and just say that some of the fans from various companies are identical or pretty close to being identical. It isn't rocket science.
A fan sized for the application should last about 5+ years. It all depends on usage. Fans wired to run all the time(via owners switch or ignition) will not last long.
Undersized fans will not last as long as a correctly sized fans. They will be cycling too much and burn out. This means that you need a properly sized fan that is cycling accordingly(via thermoswitch & AC --as needed).
If you had 3 fail, I would have sent them all back to permacool for an explanation. I have also noticed that some different brands use the same motors/fan blades/hardware kits etc. Actually, I should be honest and just say that some of the fans from various companies are identical or pretty close to being identical. It isn't rocket science.
A fan sized for the application should last about 5+ years. It all depends on usage. Fans wired to run all the time(via owners switch or ignition) will not last long.
Undersized fans will not last as long as a correctly sized fans. They will be cycling too much and burn out. This means that you need a properly sized fan that is cycling accordingly(via thermoswitch & AC --as needed).
08-20-02, 05:02 PM
#24
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I have a perma-cool on my car. It SUCKS. Actually it probably just needs a shroud... but it's not enough by itself. I'm about to put a Fiero fan on mine. Cheaper, moves more air...
Brad
Brad
08-20-02, 06:04 PM
#25
Opinions are like........
Originally posted by rx7_ragtop
I have a perma-cool on my car. It SUCKS. Actually it probably just needs a shroud... but it's not enough by itself. I'm about to put a Fiero fan on mine. Cheaper, moves more air...
I have a perma-cool on my car. It SUCKS. Actually it probably just needs a shroud... but it's not enough by itself. I'm about to put a Fiero fan on mine. Cheaper, moves more air...
Unless someone has a CFM rating for the Fiero fan, don't claim that it moves more/less air than any other fan. Most automaker e-fans come with their own shrouds making them more efficient. This could be the problem with your permacool situation.
Permacool(as well as any other efan companies) lists at least 10 e-fans. As far as I can tell, there are only ~4 (out of the 50 or so) with enough CFM capable of cooling the RX7. This leaves plenty of room for mistakes.
Carpart stores fans don't suck. They are usually the slimline/thin/low CFM/low power/long lasting electric fans. I've used them in pairs with no problems. I would think using just one could cause problems. They serve their purpose but not on the RX7.
Actually, maybe I should just say that carpart store fans suck on the RX7 or other temperamental vehicles.