So on the way to work this morning in my 87 TII I hear some clicking... I was following some other cars so I thought it was one of those. Then a little further down the road I hear it again and was all by myself so I pull over to check it out. Sounded a lot like a gravel in the tire so I leave it running as I get out. No gravels so I pop the hood. When I lifted the hood it looked like a water show. There was oil splashing EVERYWHERE.

I immediately turn off the engine and start looking around. Down through the darkness I can see a giant bolt laying in the plastic guard beneath the engine. It's the big bolt from the center pulley and the damn thing simply FELL OUT. I just got this car in March and the engine was running fine so I've only done the basic tune-up stuff (plugs, filter, oil change, etc.) It never occurred to me to check the torque on the big frigging bolt...

After some quick searching on here I see that I'm not the only one who has had this happen and apparently when it does it's a major pain in the *** to make sure nothing has been destroyed and since I had driven about 1/8 - 1/4 mile after hearing the inital clicking I'm betting that it's screwed.

The moral of the story: Spend 10 minutes making sure that bolt is torqued down like it should be and do it TONIGHT!

 

sometimes if the hub is stuck on really tight
nothing will be destroied...

my eccentric shaft bolt comes with a locking backing plate.

 

It happened to my buddy also, much much oil did u lose??

 

I haven't put the bolt back on or filled it up yet to know how much I lost, but I'm betting that I lost most of it which adds insult to injury. Two weeks ago I had the oil changed and used the Redline Oil at $8.50/qt. PLUS I just picked it up from getting its new paint job on Thursday. How's that for a kick?

 

Don't have to check mine. I used 98lbs of torque with Locktite on the threads per the fsm. The fellow who rebuilt your engine kinda forgot to do that.

 

There should be locktite on that bolt. If you put it back in, and there is no locktite it will back itself out.

It will never ever ever come out from the factory (as they use blue locktite as well)

 

Someone fucked with it.

I've never heard of these bolts backing themselves out if original from the factory.

If installed properly as per the Mazda FSM (threadlocker + crush washer + 100+ lb-ft of torque), it should NOT back out.

I think someone fucked with it and didn't put it back in properly.

If you're paranoid, get a "safety plate" that the stock FD's have on 13B-REW engines, as slpin mentioned.


-Ted

 

My A-spec 91 came with the lock plate.
So did the J-spec S5 replacement engine.

 

Yeah, I've spent the morning reading about how it *should* (and will) be done. I don't know the history of the car as far as who did what to it as the guy I bought it from bought it at auction and decided he was too fat for it. The front plate of the housing does look newer than the rest of it, so it's safe to assume it's been off and not put back on properly.

Now it's a matter of how to proceed. I've got a call in to the area's local "rotary specialist" (found her through a search of this forum) and I'm waiting for a quote on the work involved to fix it though I'm a bit suspect of what she's told me so far. She says that no one in this area rebuilds these engines because you need special equipment to hold all the parts as you put them back together. She then told me it's best to just buy an already rebuilt engine to replace it with (which I probably agree with) but then she said those start at $2,000 just for the engine.

I think I'm just going to take a nap and then decide what to do about it...

 

You've heard "If it aint broke - don't fix it!"

The rest of the line is: "It will break soon enough on it's own."

 

well then, my friend had this exact same problem last night and we spent a good part of the night putting the bolt back in, in the back of a taco bell parking lot.. also the bolt took out a fan blade while it came out.
pics are here! notice all the oil which was sprayed around by the fan

 

makes the engine all shiny

 

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/pulley.htm

Read, observe, learn. That page details the specific problem you *may* have - the front bearings getting torn up.

The damage isn't done from the front stack coming loose, the damage is done from tightening it back down without things lined up properly. If you were to go out there, put the bolt back in, and crank it down, things stand a good chance of being torn up. If you take care of things properly, I doubt there will be any major damage at all.

Ideally, you'll want to pull the front cover off and inspect things. If the pulley didn't actually come forward, you should be OK to put the bolt back in... but you want to inspect things first (which will actually require taking the pulley off).

Really, it's not that bad of a job. You can get the front cover off with the engine in the car. Once you pull out the radiator fan, radiator fan shroud, and intake snorkel (on top of the radiator shroud), there's a LOT of space to work. Plus, you probably want to take that stuff off anyway to clean it and get the oil out of everything.

If you want to try for the "quick easy fix", put the bolt back in, and tighten it down a LITTLE BIT. You don't want to crush anything, you just want to keep the front pulley from sliding out more. Grab the front pulley and try to push it forward & backwards. It should move a small but perceptible amount (and you'll hear big heavy things clunking slightly in the engine as the eshaft moves). If it doesn't move at all, you've already dropped a bearing and have to pull the front cover off. If it does move that slight bit, everything should still be OK on the inside. Personally, I wouldn't risk putting things back together without taking a look at everything, but YMMV.

-=Russ=-

 

You can't 'just put it back in' There is a huge procedure for making sure the bearings aren't being crushed. Search as this was covered about three weeks ago. Look a Mazdatrix website as well.

 

Well when you wake up, inform your 'rotory specialist' that She'll not be touching your motor any time soon. WTF??? That answer is standard IMO for supposed rotary specialist all over the country. You're there in Va. You need to log on to the area baord for the North East and there you'll find numourous big hearted RX7 guru's that will give you the straight scoop on repair facilities that actually work on rotaries.

Funny, Ask her "what special equipment is needed to put the rotary back together??" The answer is a 5 gallon bucket for the front iron and a couple of rubber bands for the rotors themselves, oh and don't forget some vaseline. I guess you call that 'special' equipment.

I am not baggin on you at all, I understand being new. I just want you to hear how rediculous She sounds so that you will not spend another penny calling her on the phone.

Even though I get bagged on in this thread, you should read it as it has good info on how to replace that bolt.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ht=pulley+bolt

 

Yea... I wouldn't trust a "rotary specialist" who can't rebuild a motor. I rebuilt my motor with nothing more than a few 4x4s to support it, a torque wrench, a lot of oil/vasoline, a socket set, and a handful of other random things. NO "special stuff" - just put the front bearings on with the front end of the engine facing up, and it'll work great!

-=Russ=-

 

I have seen it hapen on a Mazda Remanufactured engine after about 10k miles. What is now my daily driver was purchased "with a blown motor". When I took delivery of it the front bolt was missing and the entire engine bay was soaked in oil. Apparently the kid that owned it before me drove it like that until it was out of oil and then burned up the bearings. Approximatley 10k miles before I bought it the dealership had put in a factory rebuild. Somebody didn't use locktite!

 

I read the mazdatrix page and see exactly what they're talking about. My goal now is to get the car home without spending a ton of money on towing. It's about a mile from home. Is there a "temp fix" that won't damage the bearings but allow me to drive it that short distance or should I go ahead and suck it up and have it towed?

On another note... In the Haynes manual there's pin and spring type of thing that looks like it fits inside the eccentric bolt. It wasn't laying with the bolt and washer and we didn't find it in the road (though chances of that were slim anyway). Do those slide out with that bolt off or is it possible it's still in there?

 

That is your Thermo pellet. I kind of Thermostat for the oil system. I't may still be in the e-shaft. There is a mod for this system that keeps the old Thermo pellet from sticking and ruining your motor.

keep reading, you're definatly on your way. This time next week you'll be able to explain to that Rotory expert girl how a Wankel runs.

 

Hehe... The "specialist" just got back to me with a price quote:

Yeah, I think I'll be attempting this one myself. Or selling it... Anyone want a freshly painted (as in came out of the shop 5 days ago) 87 TII? Make me an offer! Here's a picture.

 

O.O

*looks again*

O.O

Dude, tell her to go try and rape someone else. Your car isn't even worth that much.

Do it yourself. It sounds like you'll need a new thermal pellet, though. Once you've started doing your own work, you never go back.

Also, just tow/push it home. You don't want to run it any in it's current state. Get a few friends and just push it late at night, split a 24 pack for their trouble.

-=Russ=-

 

I wish we could but we live in the hilly country out here and no matter which way you go it'll have to go up some serious inclines.

Thermal pellet... Is that the thing the Haynes vaguely calls the Oil Bypass valve? From the picture it looks like that it sits inside that bolt with a spring pushing on it so if the bolt came out so would the little valve. I spent an hour walking around following the oil trail looking for a peg-like thing and a spring. No luck...

 

By the looks of that bolt's threads there was blue loctite on it.

James

 

This is nothing to be selling your car over. If you really want an old hot rod you need to learn these ins and outs or you'll be spending $8,675 each year on repairs.

Have your buddy with a truck drag your car home. Or rent a U-haul for $50 bux.

 

http://www.mazdatrix.com/b5.htm Eccentric shaft bypass valve and spring.

And FYI, there is a measurement in the factory manual AND the Haynes that gives you a dimension to make to determine if the torrington bearings have dropped down or not. I think it's 0.0961. IF the dimension is this figure or less just install the bypass valve and bolt w/locktite. I'd haul it to the house myself if I'd not ever done the measurement before. I've measured it before so I'd just install the bolt and bypass valve and drive home.