2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

E-fan: push or pull?

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Old Apr 27, 2006 | 03:10 PM
  #26  
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ajhehr, very nice ducting BTW... I plan on doing the same
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Old Apr 27, 2006 | 03:13 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ajhehr
Ive seen as much as 4% (on dyno's) But the more power you make the smaller percentage its going to be. But below 250 I would call it 3% to be safe.
(i got 1hp on my old nissan hardbody)

The major benefit of an electric fan is (also true for an EL waterpump.)
- it pulls a steady CFM
- you can have it cycle (on and off), this helps maintain a steady coolant temp with smaller fluctuation

In order to get the most from an EL fan you must make a cowl for it, as in a "ring" that sits as close to the edge of the blades as possible. If you just have spinning blades with no cowl you operate at 23% (so im told) of the potential of the fan.

Mathematically push or pull CFM IS CFM so as long as your ducting is proper, there should be no difference.

You only really need a cooling fan below 5 mph In the FC's since we have a large inlet I doubt a CF does much good at speed, Anyone who has a Thermostat controlled CF knows that its rarely on while the cars in motion, but most always turns on while at a stop with the AC running.

For instance If your road racing and you are overheating, All the cooling fans in the world will do you no good you simply need better radiator,wp ect.

Personally Im a big FAN (punny...) of a pusher as it leaves the engine bay free of clutter and one less thing to seriously injure people that have no business being in an engine bay in the first place.

although you make it sound like you know what you're talking about...

pusher fans lose airflow by the basic need that they have to grab air and force it through where pullers suck air through, testing has shown that pullers are more effective but the difference depends on how they are setup.

your setup is less than desirable also, circular shaped fans lose about 30% of the surface of the radiator for cooling, i am a fan(no pun intended) of fully cowled fans as they cool the complete surface of the radiator for maximum efficiency.

swapping pully load for electrical load is basically the same, while the fan is operating the electrical load is basically the same as a mechanical water pump or clutch fan but is less reliable because electricals tend to fail more than mechanical parts do. why would a single speed water pump be more effective than a mechanical one? higher RPMs generally = more heat generated by the motor, a single RPM pump will either be working too much at idle or not enough at high RPMs to keep up with the cooling needed, a belt driven water pump supplies more flow as needed. you are describing more of a drag car than a street driven daily driver, which isn't appropriate because it is giving people the impression it is something they should do.

a fan should also be matched to the requirements needed, an overly large e-fan can actually put more of a load on the engine than the stock clutch fan would when the fan is on.

the main thing is, you shouldn't install an e-fan unless it is absolutely necessary.

Last edited by RotaryEvolution; Apr 27, 2006 at 03:17 PM.
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Old Apr 27, 2006 | 04:15 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Mint87RX7
i dont think theres a car in the world with a fan that pushes air through the radiator

Ever seen a Shelby Cobra?
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Old Apr 27, 2006 | 07:57 PM
  #29  
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Shelby Cobra? that's 60's technology. they didn't even know what aerodynamics were back then and you're gonna trust the way they felt like installing radiator fans? The only smart thing he did was put a big motor in a tiny car. The only thing he did after that was get old.

Puller ownz pusher. Yes, CFM's are CFM's. but that's most likely measured under no load conditions. I guarantee any fan will PULL more CFM's than PUSH.
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Old Apr 27, 2006 | 09:54 PM
  #30  
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Is it really necessary to sacrifice cooling at speed with a duct that limits flow for more cooling at idle? The engine doesn't give off enough heat at idle to warrant this. In order for the air to get through the entire radiator with a duct it would have to turn at a right angle in a puller config, and it wouldn't even touch parts in a pusher config so... Which really offers more even cooling where it counts?
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Old Apr 27, 2006 | 10:20 PM
  #31  
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by duct you mean shrouding around the fan? if the fan is big enough, then the shrouding won't have an adverse effect on cooling at speed. at least, i had no problems with my fiero fan/shroud setup.
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Old Apr 28, 2006 | 12:51 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by ajhehr
Ive seen as much as 4% (on dyno's) But the more power you make the smaller percentage its going to be. But below 250 I would call it 3% to be safe.
You can't dyno test a thermoclutch fan because you can't control it's operation, so there's no way to get an accurate comparison between a thermoclutch fan and an e-fan on a dyno. If the dyno has a decent cooling fan the thermoclutch fan should be putting very little load on the engine anyway, certainly not anywhere near 8hp (3% of 250hp). I don't know how you conducted that test, but it's of little relevance to FC's.

The major benefit of an electric fan is (also true for an EL waterpump.)

- it pulls a steady CFM

- you can have it cycle (on and off), this helps maintain a steady coolant temp with smaller fluctuation
Your two "benefits" completely contradict one another and are both wrong anyway. The fact that an e-fan cycles on and off means the airflow is not even close to steady and neither is engine temp. Unlike a thermoclutch fan, the temp has to rise up to the temp switch's set point before it turns on and then run until the temp has dropped a few degrees. At low speed the engine temp rises and falls as the fan cycles on and off. A thermoclutch engages as the temp starts to rise, so the fan speed is much more closely matched to the actual cooling requirements and thus the engine temp is far more stable. I'm not saying this is necessarily an advantage or disadvantage, only that what you claimed was wrong.
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Old Apr 28, 2006 | 03:09 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Karack
only use a pusher fan if there is no room for a puller, that is the ONLY reason to use a pusher.

Oh i was just goffing around. The cab over truck I work with most of the time have puller fans because the rad is behind the motor.
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Old Apr 28, 2006 | 11:40 AM
  #34  
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this is what I gathered so far:

use it as a puller...
duct the front air intake portion...
and possibly shroud this 16" fan...
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